If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

[oaksoft]

6 hours ago, DumboBud said:

I get the financial argument although as already gone through I really object to the over inflated figures used by both the club and its apologists to try and justify it. 

Yep it's bad enough that we are doing it but what really f**ks people off is being subjected to unmitigated shite about the financial gain.

[BuddieinEK]

While I can’t speak for all of them , I would be willing to bet that a very substantial percentage of them stay away because of the sectarian bile spouted by each side of the arse cheeks.
Added to that , those who have watched for years as these two teams get decisions in their favour against provincial teams and also that tickets to watch / listen to the nonsense in front of them are generally mor expensive, would account for another chunk of the absentees.

As to how we encourage them to return ? Who knows ?
We can’t set pricing for visiting fans at a different rate , but what about offering a discount to home fans in exchange for ticket stubs from previous home matches , or a bog-of deal where a season ticket holder can bring a friend ?

Two of us stayed away purely because it wasn't included on our season tickets and I was not going to go through to Paisley and queue for a ticket for a different stand.

Had my season ticket been valid, we would have paid more for it and been there.

[BuddieinEK]

For some odd reason OF fans seem to think we need them to survive too.
 

Our club fully agrees and by pandering to them, gives them proof!

[DLBud]

Every club does not do, in fact Hibs and hearts cut their ticket allocation because of their behaviour this season.  Motherwell, Aberdeen and Dundee don’t either.  Hamilton give them a gazebo and Livingston give them the full ground.  We are the only club to give them a family stand, I’m so sick of these mutents I have emailed club asking (if we stay up) that West and main stand season tickets be made available minus the game against the old firm. 

Hibs and Hearts have a big stand to give to Rangers and Celtic and can almost fill the remainder with home fans. Do you truly believe if they only had 1,700 tickets to give them behind a goal they wouldn’t find a way to maximise it?

Motherwell already give them about 4,000 from one stand. St Johnstone give them both ends and a section of their main stand. Livi give everything except the home dugout. Accies give what we had, a bit of their main stand and the gazebo. Killie always give them both ends and have previous for moving season tickets to accommodate them. Not sure about Dundee.

Scottish football is all about the money the OF bring through the gates. That’s why most of the Premiership teams voted to keep Rangers in the top league.

I understand how you feel and wish there was a better way to resolve it. Our stadium design doesn’t really offer any other fix so I guess we’re stuck with this for the foreseeable future.

[Iamhammer]

1 hour ago, renfrew said:

2 hours ago, Iamhammer said:

Every club does not do, in fact Hibs and hearts cut their ticket allocation because of their behaviour this season.  Motherwell, Aberdeen and Dundee don’t either.  Hamilton give them a gazebo and Livingston give them the full ground.  We are the only club to give them a family stand, I’m so sick of these mutents I have emailed club asking (if we stay up) that West and main stand season tickets be made available minus the game against the old firm. 

Hibs and Hearts are back giving them the whole stand. Motherwell also give them a large part of the main stand as well as the 1 behind the goal. Accies also give them seats in the main stand behind the goal plus the tent. Part of the main stand at Dens goes to them as well. Fakes also give them the family stand as well as part of the main stand. Dons are about the only team that give them the away part.of the ground and nothing else.

Then the three Celtic season ticket holders I work with are lying about Hibs and hearts, they say Hibs gave them the full stand once this season and that was to comply with the sfa regulations regarding the Scottish cup.  For all league games they gave them so little that they went to corporate box holders and bond members with none even reaching season ticket holders 

[DLBud]

Then the three Celtic season ticket holders I work with are lying about Hibs and hearts, they say Hibs gave them the full stand once this season and that was to comply with the sfa regulations regarding the Scottish cup.  For all league games they gave them so little that they went to corporate box holders and bond members with none even reaching season ticket holders 

So, now we’re trusting Celtic fans?🤣

[Tommy]

Then the three Celtic season ticket holders I work with are lying about Hibs and hearts, they say Hibs gave them the full stand once this season and that was to comply with the sfa regulations regarding the Scottish cup.  For all league games they gave them so little that they went to corporate box holders and bond members with none even reaching season ticket holders 

Celtic had the whole away stand against Hearts a few weeks ago. Hibs have also change their minds and Celtic will get the whole away stand next weekend.

[ged62]

Our club fully agrees and by pandering to them, gives them proof!

Obviously our club thought they were onto a winner with giving them an extra stand.

[Callum Gilhooley]

I repeat my previous offer ( Highly unlikely to have to be fulfilled [emoji6]) if I win the lottery , Septic and the new team will get the same percentage of total capacity of our ground as we get from them.
Plus , they will be surrounded by yellow vest stewards who will eject anyone who does not remain seated for the whole game.
Job done .

[waldorf34]

After expenses ,it should only work out at £160k ?for giving them the family stand.

But if we did not ,we could at least get 500 of our supporters,ie 2,000 for these games in the family stand,reducing the extra income to £110k,take away expenses its now £100k.Still a large sum.

But do we,a small club really need a Fotball Director and a first team assistant  manager and first team coach. 

Yes we need to balance the books but there are many ways to do it and still keep the family stand for OUR family

[bazil85]

17 hours ago, waldorf34 said:

After expenses ,it should only work out at £160k ?for giving them the family stand.

But if we did not ,we could at least get 500 of our supporters,ie 2,000 for these games in the family stand,reducing the extra income to £110k,take away expenses its now £100k.Still a large sum.

But do we,a small club really need a Fotball Director and a first team assistant  manager and first team coach. 

Yes we need to balance the books but there are many ways to do it and still keep the family stand for OUR family

Yes, I think Gus has proven his worth with the January signings and our coaching staff is no bigger than Livi, Hamilton or Dundee. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

This thread is already about 8 pages longer than it needed to be.

Anyone arguing that it is not commercially beneficial to the club to do this is a moron.

The only thing up for debate is whether the (relatively speaking) derisory sum of money earned, is worth it.

This thread could basically have just been a poll.

For the record, I'd be clicking the radio button that said "Tell the minkin' tinks to ram their cash and they're lucky we allow them to pollute one stand of our lovely wee stadium". If indeed that is one of the options of said poll. 

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

This thread is already about 8 pages longer than it needed to be.

Anyone arguing that it is not commercially beneficial to the club to do this is a moron.

The only thing up for debate is whether the (relatively speaking) derisory sum of money earned, is worth it.

This thread could basically have just been a poll.

For the record, I'd be clicking the radio button that said "Tell the minkin' tinks to ram their cash and they're lucky we allow them to pollute one stand of our lovely wee stadium". If indeed that is one of the options of said poll. 

Depends what you consider a 'derisory' sum. Potentially six figures for the sake of up to four games of pain... I'd say that was a considerable sum.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Depends what you consider a 'derisory' sum. Potentially six figures for the sake of up to four games of pain... I'd say that was a considerable sum.

And I'd say it was nothing like 6 figures. Not even close.

[bazil85]

39 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

And I'd say it was nothing like 6 figures. Not even close.

If we got top six it would be in that region. With the three games it’s between one and two players wages. Estimate £20 per ticket (allowing for concessions) 4,500 fans (again roughly.) £90k take off expenses. 

[oaksoft]

From the other thread, here are my calculations:-

OK I'm going to put Baz out of his misery here.

We have to go back to season 2011/12 to find a year where we played Celtic at home twice and Rangers once to allow a fair and direct comparison allowing an assessment of the impact of Gordon's change to move OF fans from W6/7 to the Family Stand.

I am going to be kind to Baz and assume the difference in numbers represents all adults paying £27 and I'm going to ignore the enormous and record breaking Jack Ross bounce on increased gates this season. This then presents an absolute BEST CASE scenario for Baz so he really can't accuse me of diminshing his numbers.

Here are the attendances:-

Season 2011/12

Celtic (game 1) - 6223

Celtic (game 2) - 6129

Rangers (only game) - 6711

Season 2011/12 total - 19,063

 

Season 2018/19

Celtic (game 1) - 7288

Celtic (game 2) - 6597

Ranges (only game) - 6033

Season 2018/19 total - 19,918

 

Difference in attendance for the entire SEASON = 19,918-19,063 = 855

Maximum GROSS increase in income due to decision to move OF fans from W6/7 to Family stand =

855 * £27 = £23, 085.

Once we subtract taxes, extra admin, policing and stewarding costs etc we are looking at probably £14k more income.

That's not even a single youth player. We have pissed off our core support for £14k.

If we stay up we'll see that number reduce to essentially zero once our Jack Ross bounce wears off.

That's the end of the matter as far as I am concerned.

[BuddieinEK]

If we got top six it would be in that region. With the three games it’s between one and two players wages. Estimate £20 per ticket (allowing for concessions) 4,500 fans (again roughly.) £90k take off expenses. 

2,400 additional fans...
You are counting some twice!

Back to your calculator with adjusted real figures!

[BuddieinEK]

This thread is already about 8 pages longer than it needed to be.
Anyone arguing that it is not commercially beneficial to the club to do this is a moron.
The only thing up for debate is whether the (relatively speaking) derisory sum of money earned, is worth it.
This thread could basically have just been a poll.
For the record, I'd be clicking the radio button that said "Tell the minkin' tinks to ram their cash and they're lucky we allow them to pollute one stand of our lovely wee stadium". If indeed that is one of the options of said poll. 

That must make me a moron then.

I firmly believe it is NOT commercially beneficial.

There are short term financial benefits, yes, I agree.

But "commercially" it is far from beneficial with potential for a negative impact that will last for a long time to come.

How the hell did we end up discussing this same topic on yet another thread anyway?

[emoji22] [emoji22] [emoji22]

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

From the other thread, here are my calculations:-

OK I'm going to put Baz out of his misery here.

We have to go back to season 2011/12 to find a year where we played Celtic at home twice and Rangers once to allow a fair and direct comparison allowing an assessment of the impact of Gordon's change to move OF fans from W6/7 to the Family Stand.

I am going to be kind to Baz and assume the difference in numbers represents all adults paying £27 and I'm going to ignore the enormous and record breaking Jack Ross bounce on increased gates this season. This then presents an absolute BEST CASE scenario for Baz so he really can't accuse me of diminshing his numbers.

Here are the attendances:-

Season 2011/12

Celtic (game 1) - 6223

Celtic (game 2) - 6129

Rangers (only game) - 6711

Season 2011/12 total - 19,063

 

Season 2018/19

Celtic (game 1) - 7288

Celtic (game 2) - 6597

Ranges (only game) - 6033

Season 2018/19 total - 19,918

 

Difference in attendance for the entire SEASON = 19,918-19,063 = 855

Maximum GROSS increase in income due to decision to move OF fans from W6/7 to Family stand =

855 * £27 = £23, 085.

Once we subtract taxes, extra admin, policing and stewarding costs etc we are looking at probably £14k more income.

That's not even a single youth player. We have pissed off our core support for £14k.

If we stay up we'll see that number reduce to essentially zero once our Jack Ross bounce wears off.

That's the end of the matter as far as I am concerned.

It was still wrong to look at home crowds on the other thread. 

[bazil85]

11 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

2,400 additional fans...
You are counting some twice!

Back to your calculator with adjusted real figures!

Yet again I’m talking about one stand vs two as I have been from message one. You still fail to share a post where I’ve changed my point. 

[BuddieinEK]

Yet again I’m talking about one stand vs two as I have been from message one. You still fail to share a post where I’ve changed my point. 

One stand is and never was an option.

The debate always has been about how much extra profit was generated by giving the OF fans the Family stand instead of the away section of the West Stand, which historically, large away supports got.

You moved the goalposts to try and create some sensationalistic figures to back up your point in an argument that nobody but you was having!

You have turned in so many circles, It's only a matter of time till you bring yourself down!

You are amusing and tenacious.
I will give you that. [emoji23]

[bazil85]

8 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

One stand is and never was an option.

The debate always has been about how much extra profit was generated by giving the OF fans the Family stand instead of the away section of the West Stand, which historically, large away supports got.

You moved the goalposts to try and create some sensationalistic figures to back up your point in an argument that nobody but you was having!

You have turned in so many circles, It's only a matter of time till you bring yourself down!

You are amusing and tenacious.
I will give you that.

That’s your opinion, my opinion is that one stand is vastly more likely than them moving the singing section for Celtic & Rangers, I think fans would go mental if they tried to do that now.

I’m allowed to have that opinion and just because you have a different one doesn’t mean I need to base my thoughts on yours. I have been completely open about that being what I’m basing it on. (Which is why you have failed to show messages from me where I have backtracked) 

i’ll ask again though. Feel free to share anywhere where I’ve been inconsistent? 

Why would I be basing my working on something that hasn’t happened in over three seasons that this board has never done? Like I say, you’re running out of corners to hide in here. 

[BuddieinEK]

That’s your opinion, my opinion is that one stand is vastly more likely than them moving the singing section for Celtic & Rangers, I think fans would go mental if they tried to do that now.
I’m allowed to have that opinion and just because you have a different one doesn’t mean I need to base my thoughts on yours. I have been completely open about that being what I’m basing it on. (Which is why you have failed to show messages from me where I have backtracked) 
i’ll ask again though. Feel free to share anywhere where I’ve been inconsistent? 
Why would I be basing my working on something that hasn’t happened in over three seasons that this board has never done? Like I say, you’re running out of corners to hide in here. 

Tell you what.. the total crowd v Celtic was 6,597.

Why not just use that figure times six (four league matches as your additional players ensure a top six finish and hey... lets add in a couple of cup games too!) as it obviously would make your figures even more fanciful still.

Your what IF'S have no place in reasoned debate.

You are simply making up numbers!

[bazil85]

28 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Tell you what.. the total crowd v Celtic was 6,597.

Why not just use that figure times six (four league matches as your additional players ensure a top six finish and hey... lets add in a couple of cup games too!) as it obviously would make your figures even more fanciful still.

Your what IF'S have no place in reasoned debate.

You are simply making up numbers!

Over here in reality, I’ve been quoting the actual details involved in giving them an extra stand. As in the number of extra away fans in the stand. You’ll find I have been since the start. Good effort by you though, gold star 

[BuddieinEK]

Over here in reality, I’ve been quoting the actual details involved in giving them an extra stand. As in the number of extra away fans in the stand. You’ll find I have been since the start. Good effort by you though, gold star 

They are NOT getting an extra stand!

They are getting the entire South stand INSTEAD of part of the West stand.

But you know that.

You repeatedly choose to ignore it to massage your figures!