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proudtobeabuddy

If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

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17 minutes ago, Kemp said:

If that worked then fair play. Why not repeat this type of thing when playing Celtic & Rangers? (Which appear to be the least appealing games for most Saints fans at present).

When we do play them the club make it as difficult as possible for St Mirren fans to buy tickets. The way the ticket office staff talk to customers could do with some serious improvement (for all games). And 27 pounds for a game that we now seem to treat as a chance to play the reserves isn't great value for money.

My feeling after Wednesday night was I wished I hadn't gone. I wasn't particularly upset at the result, it was a feeling I hadn't had my going to a St Mirren game before: I wish I hadn't come here today. I didn't feel particularly welcome and didn't enjoy the atmosphere or game. Clearly about 2000 St Mirren fans had already had that feeling at some point. That should be concerning to the club, because its an easy step from not going to certain games to not going to any games.

I've changed my mind on this before but reading through the thread I am in agreement with those that say the money we make from this isn't worth it. The damage to the club and support in other ways is too much.

I get this point too. There is nothing worse than feeling short changed. That's when customers of any business think with their feet.

The problem for the board is how do you keep the fans happy and keep the money coming in. Free tickets fill stands but even in Non old firm games the fans are fickle. I cite the Dundee Utd cup game as an example where giving freebies all season got little return as the Family stand was deserted that day.

Its a tough one.

 

Edited by East Lothian Saint
fickleness

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4 minutes ago, Kemp said:

There is only one pro argument: We make money from it.

It should be pointed out that St Mirren's problem hasn't been making money as such, it has been spending it properly. Giving the bigots the extra stand for all three games probably barely makes a dent in to the pay offs of Stubbs & Darren Jackson.

It isn't a huge amount of money this brings in, and we can live without it if the club is managed properly.

Can't argue with any of that.  

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18 minutes ago, Kemp said:

If that worked then fair play. Why not repeat this type of thing when playing Celtic & Rangers? 

Would never have taken my kids to an OF game and a lot others  wouldn't likewise I would image.  

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Just an idea, but how about turning the whole thing around and trying to make Old Firm games our "family days". That concept normally gets rolled out when playing a team we aren't going to sell many tickets against. 

We could make a drive to fill the family stand with youth groups, incentivise season ticket holders and registered ticket website members to bring a friend along (the idea season ticket holders would buy home end tickets for OF fans is ridiculous), encourage the West Stand to make enough noise drown out the ulster related shite coming out the away end.

Yes, we would lose money on it all, but these games could be celebrations of everything that St Mirren stand for. Every St Mirren fan could very easily jump on a bus to Glasgow and see a bigger, (normally) winning team, but they chose not to out of loyalty to their local team & as a rejection of the bigtory and violence that comes with Celtic & Rangers. These games should be our opportunity to show the country that. They shouldn't be games where we surrender the stadium & three points without a fight.

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6 minutes ago, pod said:

Would never have taken my kids to an OF game and a lot others  wouldn't likewise I would image.  

They way they are managed and policed at present, I understand that. There are other ways to do things though.

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4 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Just an idea, but how about turning the whole thing around and trying to make Old Firm games our "family days". That concept normally gets rolled out when playing a team we aren't going to sell many tickets against. 

We could make a drive to fill the family stand with youth groups, incentivise season ticket holders and registered ticket website members to bring a friend along (the idea season ticket holders would buy home end tickets for OF fans is ridiculous), encourage the West Stand to make enough noise drown out the ulster related shite coming out the away end.

Yes, we would lose money on it all, but these games could be celebrations of everything that St Mirren stand for. Every St Mirren fan could very easily jump on a bus to Glasgow and see a bigger, (normally) winning team, but they chose not to out of loyalty to their local team & as a rejection of the bigtory and violence that comes with Celtic & Rangers. These games should be our opportunity to show the country that. They shouldn't be games where we surrender the stadium & three points without a fight.

Its an idea and why not try and turn the whole thing around. 

Not sure how it works in the Family stand, if you can sit anywhere, but We would have to do something about allocated seats in the other two stands to make this work. 

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8 minutes ago, Kemp said:

They way they are managed and policed at present, I understand that. There are other ways to do things though.

There was, but we, like most clubs decided to sell our tickets to OF supporters rather than incur a fee for they're clubs to sell ticket which they claimed would only have gone to affiliate supporters groups and not the Green Brigade scumbag if we were to believe that.

 

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45 minutes ago, Kemp said:

The way the ticket office staff talk to customers could do with some serious improvement (for all games). And 27 pounds for a game that we now seem to treat as a chance to play the reserves isn't great value for money.

 

Have you heard the way some customers talk to the ticket office staff. :whistle

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19 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Just an idea, but how about turning the whole thing around and trying to make Old Firm games our "family days". That concept normally gets rolled out when playing a team we aren't going to sell many tickets against. 

We could make a drive to fill the family stand with youth groups, incentivise season ticket holders and registered ticket website members to bring a friend along (the idea season ticket holders would buy home end tickets for OF fans is ridiculous), encourage the West Stand to make enough noise drown out the ulster related shite coming out the away end.

Yes, we would lose money on it all, but these games could be celebrations of everything that St Mirren stand for. Every St Mirren fan could very easily jump on a bus to Glasgow and see a bigger, (normally) winning team, but they chose not to out of loyalty to their local team & as a rejection of the bigtory and violence that comes with Celtic & Rangers. These games should be our opportunity to show the country that. They shouldn't be games where we surrender the stadium & three points without a fight.

This is a good idea over all. In defiance to the OF and in reference to the last sentence it would be a big statement, indeed we could proclaim.... 'No surr...' oh, wait..... 

 

On second thoughts, lets re-think the last part...............

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For Kemp’s idea to work a lot of effort would be needed by the club and the fans to reach a solution here and planning should start as soon as we avoid relegation.

Some sort of incentive scheme should be used to encourage Saints fans. Kemps idea could work with proper preparation. Six family days to promote solidarity between the club and the fans might succeed.

The club supply free tickets to groups who qualify. An incentive scheme for groups to buy tickets for other games not including the old firm which qualify for free tickets to the old firm games. We put on all sort of entertainment, face painters, Stalls, Panda’s events or whatever it takes to make it more than just a match.  We promote everything on a family theme and tell the world in a subtle way, bigotry, violence etc is not acceptable. Reward season ticket holders and regular attenders in some way to fill the other stands too.

Make it a trial for one season. If it works and we fill all stands it stays. If we can’t fill them the club can revert to their old ways.

The key to success would be planning, constructive thinking, imagination and desire.

Easier said than done but who knows

Edited by East Lothian Saint
poor planning

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Indeed, a "Say No to Bigotry and Racism" day would surely garner a lot of positive PR for the club as well.

Purely conincidental that it falls on the days we play the Glasgow mobs of course.

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23 minutes ago, spankin_panda said:

This is a good idea over all. In defiance to the OF and in reference to the last sentence it would be a big statement, indeed we could proclaim.... 'No surr...' oh, wait..... 

 

On second thoughts, lets re-think the last part...............

No Surrender to Bigotry and Violence Day.

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I wouldn't even try and hide or mask our intentions i think no to bigotry and racism when we play them is a great idea. How can they object? Sky sports have been promoting the anti racism campaign for the last few weeks and i think it's great, why pretend it's not happening on our doorstep?

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2 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said:

For Kemp’s idea to work a lot of effort would be needed by the club and the fans to reach a solution here and planning should start as soon as we avoid relegation.

Some sort of incentive scheme should be used to encourage Saints fans. Kemps idea could work with proper preparation. Six family days to promote solidarity between the club and the fans might succeed.

The club supply free tickets to groups who qualify. An incentive scheme for groups to buy tickets for other games not including the old firm which qualify for free tickets to the old firm games. We put on all sort of entertainment, face painters, Stalls, Panda’s events or whatever it takes to make it more than just a match.  We promote everything on a family theme and tell the world in a subtle way, bigotry, violence etc is not acceptable. Reward season ticket holders and regular attenders in some way to fill the other stands too.

Make it a trial for one season. If it works and we fill all stands it stays. If we can’t fill them the club can revert to their old ways.

The key to success would be planning, constructive thinking, imagination and desire.

Easier said than done but who knows

Way too sensible 

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3 hours ago, Kemp said:

Just an idea, but how about turning the whole thing around and trying to make Old Firm games our "family days". That concept normally gets rolled out when playing a team we aren't going to sell many tickets against. 

We could make a drive to fill the family stand with youth groups, incentivise season ticket holders and registered ticket website members to bring a friend along (the idea season ticket holders would buy home end tickets for OF fans is ridiculous), encourage the West Stand to make enough noise drown out the ulster related shite coming out the away end.

Yes, we would lose money on it all, but these games could be celebrations of everything that St Mirren stand for. Every St Mirren fan could very easily jump on a bus to Glasgow and see a bigger, (normally) winning team, but they chose not to out of loyalty to their local team & as a rejection of the bigtory and violence that comes with Celtic & Rangers. These games should be our opportunity to show the country that. They shouldn't be games where we surrender the stadium & three points without a fight.

 

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On the subject of Celtic taking over our ground, anybody else see the photo of a young lad holding a photo of a Celtic player in the Hospitality Gallery with 3 of our players behind him ?   We would be as well just handing the keys of the ground over to them when they visit in future. 

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1 hour ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I wouldn't even try and hide or mask our intentions i think no to bigotry and racism when we play them is a great idea. How can they object? Sky sports have been  promoting the anti racism campaign for the last few weeks and i think it's great, why pretend it's not happening on our doorstep?

I am not having a poke at you - but if you consider the mindset of many OF fans, I suspect they might object with firecrackers, hooliganism and bigotry in song - you cannot teach an old dog new tricks - their culture ain't going to change quickly because we put on an event or two.

But lots of things need to change drastically in Scottish Football - no more of these ineffective campaigns. Something effective is needed !  :magic

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2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

I am not having a poke at you - but if you consider the mindset of many OF fans, I suspect they might object with firecrackers, hooliganism and bigotry in song - you cannot teach an old dog new tricks - their culture ain't going to change quickly because we put on an event or two.

But lots of things need to change drastically in Scottish Football - no more of these ineffective campaigns. Something effective is needed !  :magic

Would that not heighten the feelings amongst the authorities that something needs to be done though? If they are stupid enough to be that defiant with all eyes on them who are we stop stop them digging a deeper hole?:)  All the " so called" campaigns have , as you say, made little or no difference.

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2 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

Would that not heighten the feelings amongst the authorities that something needs to be done though? If they are stupid enough to be that defiant with all eyes on them who are we stop stop them digging a deeper hole?:)  All the " so called" campaigns have , as you say, made little or no difference.

I guess what I am saying is there is no quick fix. Engrained stuff is hard to shift..

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This is a totally emotive topic which has two main arguments. I get them both.
The first argument is that giving an extra stand gives them an advantage on the night. Ideally, we want this stand filled with St Mirren fans cheering on our team and maximising the home advantage. In an ideal world everyone, including IOBS, wants this.
Another strand to this argument is that giving the old firm two stands makes it dangerous to attend because they are hooligans, scum bigots or whatever. Safety is the issue and our fans should come before revenue.  
The final strand of this is that by denying our young supporters’ access to these games they will lose interest in the club and fade away affecting the long-term future of the club.
Together these three sound sensible but doing this in a way that generates income is challenging.
The people in support of the maximise income stance recognise this and are not arguing against any of the above but are being pragmatic. They are not pro-OLD FIRM
They understand the club needs money to survive and support maximising income because we cannot fill the stands ourselves. If there was an alternative which could bring in the same revenue and fill the stands with Saints fans, they would be right behind it. If there were additional income streams which meant the extra money the old firm brought could be offset, they would no doubt accept that and settle for 3 half full stands to deny the Old Firm advantage.
Emotions run high and fans staying away may have a valid point to make but also deplete club income and possibly reinforce the idea the Old Firm are the more profitable option.
Both sets of fans have strong beliefs, but I think we all have the interest of the club at heart.
Slagging off IOBS and making Glib remarks about his literacy, business skills and intelligence from behind your keyboards is like throwing flashbangs at an unsuspecting goalie from the safety of a crowd of scumbags. Its not big and it’s not clever.
Both arguments have Pros and Cons. It may be harder to resolve this one than Brexit.
You make a very reasoned and balanced post.

One point though.

Yiu say if there was an alternative they would have taken it.

Based on what?

My beef is that the alternative should always have been plan a.

Had Saints fans not stepped up to the plate, argument over!

We were never given the chance!
The Board made no effort whatsoever to increase home support!
Why?
Dare I suggest that in our first season up, it was easier to dismiss our own support than alienate the OF!

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If that worked then fair play. Why not repeat this type of thing when playing Celtic & Rangers? (Which appear to be the least appealing games for most Saints fans at present).
When we do play them the club make it as difficult as possible for St Mirren fans to buy tickets. The way the ticket office staff talk to customers could do with some serious improvement (for all games). And 27 pounds for a game that we now seem to treat as a chance to play the reserves isn't great value for money.
My feeling after Wednesday night was I wished I hadn't gone. I wasn't particularly upset at the result, it was a feeling I hadn't had my going to a St Mirren game before: I wish I hadn't come here today. I didn't feel particularly welcome and didn't enjoy the atmosphere or game. Clearly about 2000 St Mirren fans had already had that feeling at some point. That should be concerning to the club, because its an easy step from not going to certain games to not going to any games.
I've changed my mind on this before but reading through the thread I am in agreement with those that say the money we make from this isn't worth it. The damage to the club and support in other ways is too much.
This.
100% this.

One game missed can become one season missed can become one fan lost!

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For Kemp’s idea to work a lot of effort would be needed by the club and the fans to reach a solution here and planning should start as soon as we avoid relegation.
Some sort of incentive scheme should be used to encourage Saints fans. Kemps idea could work with proper preparation. Six family days to promote solidarity between the club and the fans might succeed.
The club supply free tickets to groups who qualify. An incentive scheme for groups to buy tickets for other games not including the old firm which qualify for free tickets to the old firm games. We put on all sort of entertainment, face painters, Stalls, Panda’s events or whatever it takes to make it more than just a match.  We promote everything on a family theme and tell the world in a subtle way, bigotry, violence etc is not acceptable. Reward season ticket holders and regular attenders in some way to fill the other stands too.
Make it a trial for one season. If it works and we fill all stands it stays. If we can’t fill them the club can revert to their old ways.
The key to success would be planning, constructive thinking, imagination and desire.
Easier said than done but who knows
Proves that there are fans with visionary ideas that can take us forward under fan ownership!

Will the current incumbents be prepared to listen? Will they act?

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Ideas about trying to make games against the old firm family days out.

Think it’s more likely to put them off attending matches ever again they are the worst matches to attend home and away that’s why our support is down much better to stay at home and watch it.

Many on here moaning will be the first to cry if we get out bid for a decent player by clubs of a similar support base or less because they choose to make the correct call and take any advantages they can to help the financial situations of there clubs.

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21 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said:

Slagging off IOBS and making Glib remarks about his literacy, business skills and intelligence from behind your keyboards is like throwing flashbangs at an unsuspecting goalie from the safety of a crowd of scumbags. Its not big and it’s not clever.

 

On a forum where posters routinely call other posters "cunts" without a word from you, I think you look a bit daft taking offence at someone being slagged off for their lack of any apparent numeracy or literacy skills. :lol:

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