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Big Boris, Our Prime Minister

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This I cant argue on...… and the core problem with devolved power. The SNPs will argue that they were doing the will of the Scots, however the English MPs are torn between what they want and what their constituents want.
The SNPs are classing Scotland as one voice, where we know very well it isn't. Our Fishing and Agricultural sectors in Scotland voted Leave, and the SNPs should take all Scots into account rather than this blanket approach, it will  their undoing  Nearly 40% of Scots voted to leave the EU and 55% voted to remain in the UK, sometimes in Scotland its the noisy minority that represent us   


For once, you post some snippets of sense

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1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


The SNP MPs just vetoed England’s wishes to leave with no deal

You would need to remove all the Welsh and DUP votes before you can make that conclusion about how England voted.

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15 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

1- The SNPs mandate is to Remain not no deal-

2- 487 MPs voted for Article 50- Not one of the 163 Non tories have explained why ?

3- I think the word you say " scepticism" is spot but that's in regards to all Politian's over the way all have demonstrated that they represent their own agenda, if we are being honest the SNPs ( NS) said to the Scots vote  Remain , most did out of Blind loyalty , as the Remain campaign was  weak - more the Devil you know " logic

I know many farmers and I can assure you 99% of them are firmly Leave , of course Gove sold the dream( lies) to the fishing industry , who are trapped in EU legislation for 7 years after/if we leave.....

Finally, good point on news yesterday. A year ago we talked about a Hard or Soft Brexit- Simply put- BJ represent Hard, May, Corbyn , Liberals - Soft...… we have an Election at some   cant wait to the party agendas

Indeed, Jeremy all property is theft Corbyn campaigned in the last election that he would see Brexit put through . Yvette Cooper who currently holds Pontefract for Labour has an electorate that voted 70% for leave. I dont see her getting back in in somehow but that kind of thing is happening across the country. 

Philip Hamond who also campaigned under the leave banner in 2016 and is a longstanding Tory has now been effectively sacked. 

As you say , too many politicians with their own ideas rather than following the ticket they got elected under. 

The political situation is a shambles and it's partly due to May crawling to Tusk to get 'a deal' , instead she got a Treaty written by Barney Rubble , a surrender document that nobody in their right mind would agree to

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1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Hilary Benn’s European Union bill second reading was backed by 329 for and 300 against. A winning margin of 29.

All 35 SNP MPs voted for.

So the SNP won the day for Scotland against the wishes of England.

Indeed in close English votes the others can end up deciding the outcome. That doesn’t stop the fact that a majority is 326, and England has 533 MPs - over 200 more than the number needed for a majority. When the English want to, they can decide everything for us.

If votes were worked out on a veto basis like the EU has, then the decisions of Scotland and Northern Ireland would have prevented Brexit. This is why many are pro-Indy and pro-EU - in the EU it’s more difficult to force things upon you, while in the UK  England can, if willing, dictate how things are going to happen.

You only need to see the way that the SNP have been ignored throughout the whole Brexit process, and the complete ignorance of what both Norrhern Ireland and the Republic want regarding the backstop to know this is not a union of equal nations.

1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

55% voted to remain in the UK, 

Irrelevant now. One of the key broken promises made to No voters was that a No vote was our only chance of remaining in the EU. That has been proven to be bullshit now, and certainly for some people who were in the Don’t Know category, it was the deciding factor to edge towards voting No.

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28 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

 


er, well, yes, the fact that he had no majority is the reason he wants an election and why he threw them out

Do you want me to repeat it a third time?

 

Please - you put it so elegantly :lol:

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8 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Indeed in close English votes the others can end up deciding the outcome. That doesn’t stop the fact that a majority is 326, and England has 533 MPs - over 200 more than the number needed for a majority. When the English want to, they can decide everything for us.

If votes were worked out on a veto basis like the EU has, then the decisions of Scotland and Northern Ireland would have prevented Brexit. This is why many are pro-Indy and pro-EU - in the EU it’s more difficult to force things upon you, while in the UK  England can, if willing, dictate how things are going to happen.

You only need to see the way that the SNP have been ignored throughout the whole Brexit process, and the complete ignorance of what both Norrhern Ireland and the Republic want regarding the backstop to know this is not a union of equal nations.

Irrelevant now. One of the key broken promises made to No voters was that a No vote was our only chance of remaining in the EU. That has been proven to be bullshit now, and certainly for some people who were in the Don’t Know category, it was the deciding factor to edge towards voting No.

How is the last Indy vote we had irrelevant?- Its 100% Relevant unless we are Independent and I missed it...……………. do you seriously believe that was the reason 55% said No. Think it was more to the 1000 Shite Paper, the no clue on Sterling, the Banks all saying they would leave- and making everyone feel very uncomfortable and isolated ( Just like Brexit)

I do hope Indy 2 actually has some plausible thought behind it...………...

However- one thing you say is spot on- Our voting system has been up for debate since I was a kid. The problem of having a majority unaccountable gov has plagued us for decades...…………… Along with the unelected HOL the UK is stuck in the dark ages ala Russia and China...…………

The UKIP party got 4 million votes and one seat, in 2015 the SNPs got 2 millions votes and 56 seats...……………… so this is not just aimed at the big 2

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1 minute ago, DougJamie said:

How is the last Indy vote we had irrelevant?- Its 100% Relevant unless we are Independent and I missed it...……………. do you seriously believe that was the reason 55% said No. Think it was more to the 1000 Shite Paper, the no clue on Sterling, the Banks all saying they would leave- and making everyone feel very uncomfortable and isolated ( Just like Brexit)

I do hope Indy 2 actually has some plausible thought behind it...………...

However- one thing you say is spot on- Our voting system has been up for debate since I was a kid. The problem of having a majority unaccountable gov has plagued us for decades...…………… Along with the unelected HOL the UK is stuck in the dark ages ala Russia and China...…………

The UKIP party got 4 million votes and one seat, in 2015 the SNPs got 2 millions votes and 56 seats...……………… so this is not just aimed at the big 2

I’m not saying the sole reason 55% voted No was down to the EU promise, but it was a factor for some, and in other cases it was the decider for those on the fence.

I definitely agree that the unelected HoL is a major issue and a financial burden as well. It’s outrageous that over 800 unelected “Lords” (including Bishops and Hereditary peers) can decide so much politically.

The MP situation is difficult to sort out. The immediate answer is to have PR, but PR could nullify the voices of more localised parties. The obvious ones would be the likes of SNP, Plaid, and all the Northern Irish parties as they would have less seats due to being hampered by being local. IIRC, the figures you mention above, the SNP would have only had 12 seats and UKIP would have had 86, thus shutting down the Scottish side of things. It would basically force us into voting Con/Lab/LD to get a bigger number of representation.

Ideally there would need to be a balance, but it’s difficult to find the right one. It’s not just the likes of SNP/Plaid/NI parties, if the likes of Yorkshire First and Mebyon Kernow were to grow and have a good election, they could also suffer from this. The right balance would be needed otherwise we’d be stuck having to vote in a three party system.

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@Cornwall_Saint of course we’re all equal nations

 

Everyone in the UK gets a vote and that vote is worth the same regardless of what nation someone comes from!

 

That’s how democracy works!

 

England wants a no deal Brexit. The UK as a whole doesn’t. Therefore the whole of the UK wins.

 

That’s democracy!

 

 

 

 

 

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I’m not saying the sole reason 55% voted No was down to the EU promise, but it was a factor for some, and in other cases it was the decider for those on the fence.



Do you have any evidence for this?

I voted no as did all my immediate family, the vast majority of my friends and workmates.

The EU issue played no part in my vote and I don’t remember it being an issue that anyone I know who voted no raised during the referendum campaign.

I’d still vote no today and Brexit would play no part in that. I don’t know anyone who has declared that they will switch to yes as a result of Brexit.

Indeed, after the Brexit referendum we had a general election in which the SNP lost a significant share of the vote and a number of MPs whilst the Tories remarkably became the second party in Scotland.


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1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 


er, well, yes, the fact that he had no majority is the reason he wants an election and why he threw them out

Do you want me to repeat it a third time?

 

Step 1. Expel 20 MP's. Step 2. Cede these 20 seats to Brexit Party ahead of an election. Step 3. This allows ex Labour voters to vote brexit. 4. Form new government as a Tory / Brexit coalition. 

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2 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

What would they know?

 

Drivel going by your conversation with them!

 

And totally irrelevant to the post you quoted!

Oh dear. And I thought you were becoming civilised. Time will tell. 

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