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SMISA/ Kibble proposed BTB changes

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4 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

Thete are 3 kibble companies ,kibbleworks  being the one quoted as SC269349 and is registered as a private company.

Kibble is RECOGNISED as a charity

And ? All registered charities are recognised as a charity what else would they be recognised as ???

Kibble does not trade as Kibbleworks (or any other trading name) as you stated, they are separate entities. Any profit generated by the Social Enterprise company (Kibbleworks) is reinvested in the business as a whole. These are well established and approved practices

Edited by Ayrshire Saints

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Kibble appears to comprise three registered charities:

- Kibble School (Miss Elizabeth Kibbles Trust) which is constituted via a Deed of Trust. This is the parent charity for the other two charities.

- Kibble Education and Care Centre which is also a company limited by guarantee.

- Kibbleworks which is a company limited by guarantee and is a small part of the overall operation in revenue terms.

They may have other non-charitable trading companies. 

Without commenting on the merits of the proposal to acquire shares, none of that in and of itself represents a cause for concern.  These are slightly complex but perfectly normal governance arrangements for larger charities.

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3 hours ago, waldorf34 said:

Trade under the name Kibbleworks ,private limited company

That is also a registered charity.

They also hold only about £750k with the rest of their £3m turnover spent on charitable activities.

No idea why it needs two separate companies - maybe they focus on different things.

Kibble itself holds about £16m. They appear to spend almost all of the £30m they bring in with a residue of about £1m per year which seems to go into their rainy day fund.

One of you people needs to throw some actual evidence of a problem here.

Edited by oaksoft

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3 hours ago, Doakes said:

When was the last time you heard a charity/not for profit organisation go belly up? Low risk since they are all about living within their means 

 

One question I do have - Gordon Scott secured his "loan" against the stadium as an asset when he bought the club

Would this asset belong to Kibble after this agreement was signed? Or would the stadium belong to the club?

Well, I heard of one going south only today. Wait til Brexit kicks in.

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When was the last time you heard a charity/not for profit organisation go belly up? Low risk since they are all about living within their means 
 
One question I do have - Gordon Scott secured his "loan" against the stadium as an asset when he bought the club
Would this asset belong to Kibble after this agreement was signed? Or would the stadium belong to the club?
Far from a low risk Doakes.

I know quite a few good charities that have folded during my time in the third sector...

and in the current financial climate it gets harder each year just to break even.

With the public suffering charity fatigue, I will not be surprised to see other charities folding.

Far from a low risk sadly.

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4 hours ago, Doakes said:

When was the last time you heard a charity/not for profit organisation go belly up? Low risk since they are all about living within their means 

 

One question I do have - Gordon Scott secured his "loan" against the stadium as an asset when he bought the club

Would this asset belong to Kibble after this agreement was signed? Or would the stadium belong to the club?

Had a wee look. It seems that somewhere around 5000 charities close down each year.

Kibble appear to have £16m on their balance sheet so on the surface of it they look secure. Can't remember how much of that is cash though.

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7 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Nope Kibble are in reality a business who make profit, quite a lot of profit.
I do laugh at all this community guff talked about them. These days most of the young people under their supervision dont come from Paisley, Renfrewshire or even SCOTLAND!
That's how they take the cash in, by becoming a "Young Vulnerabe Care Tourist" resort.

Well, that's just shite.

While young people from England are looked after in care establishments in Scotland, including Kibble, it's still relatively rare, the vast majority of young people there are from the west of Scotland. There is pretty good throughcare support, so some from further afield often end up putting down roots in Paisley. It is one of the better care providers out there.

By the way, I've not just made that up, I used to be an inspector and have in the past inspected Kibble.

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Had a wee look. It seems that somewhere around 5000 charities close down each year.
Kibble appear to have £16m on their balance sheet so on the surface of it they look secure. Can't remember how much of that is cash though.
Out at a gig so no time to check... Be interested to check on Companies House and see what the directors remuneration and top end salaries are in the charity.

Also, how much of their charity income they spend on advertising and fundraising.

Not for a minute suggesting any impropriety, just genuinely interested.

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Well, that's just shite.
While young people from England are looked after in care establishments in Scotland, including Kibble, it's still relatively rare, the vast majority of young people there are from the west of Scotland. There is pretty good throughcare support, so some from further afield often end up putting down roots in Paisley. It is one of the better care providers out there.
By the way, I've not just made that up, I used to be an inspector and have in the past inspected Kibble.
It's not rare, kibble have had up to half their intake from England at varying times.
They had capacity, down south they had a need.

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Kibble are after all the funding, Grant's and kudos they can get by utilising our facilities.
Our community trust was supposed to be delivering everything Kibble want to take for their own.
Wheres the director in charge of the community trust? Why is he still in a job if he cant run it?

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Well, that's just shite.
While young people from England are looked after in care establishments in Scotland, including Kibble, it's still relatively rare, the vast majority of young people there are from the west of Scotland. There is pretty good throughcare support, so some from further afield often end up putting down roots in Paisley. It is one of the better care providers out there.
By the way, I've not just made that up, I used to be an inspector and have in the past inspected Kibble.
Kibble’s range of services incorporates community outreach programmes, residential care, social welfare, full secondary education, intensive fostering and secure care, with services being sold to local authorities across Scotland and the north of England.

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Kibble are not going to be owners of the club. They'll have just over a 1/4 stake (equivalent to a few years of SMISA subs.):

 

51% SMISA

27.5% Kibble

21.5% A few 100 small shareholders

 

In the unlikely event of this 160 year old charity (with 600 employees and a turnover 10 times more than our own) going out of business..... it wouldn't be that big a deal.

 

No-brainer for me too and was delighted to read about the plans today.

 

We need to do everything we can to get the club and stadium / training complex embedded within and used by the community and this partnership will undoubtedly help.

 

The club is also run, pretty much, by a skeleton staff. Bringing in expertise assistance from an organisation of Kibble's size can only be to our benefit.

 

 

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Kibble are not going to be owners of the club. They'll have just over a 1/4 stake (equivalent to a few years of SMISA subs.):

51% SMISA
27.5% Kibble
21.5% A few 100 small shareholders

In the unlikely event of this 160 year old charity (with 600 employees and a turnover 10 times more than our own) going out of business..... it wouldn't be that big a deal.

No-brainer for me too and was delighted to read about the plans today.

We need to do everything we can to get the club and stadium / training complex embedded within and used by the community. The club is also run, pretty much, by a skeleton staff. Bringing in expertise from an organisation of Kibble's size can only be to our benefit.
So why isnt our Community Trust doing these things, and bringing all the funding into the club, rather than it all going to Kibble?

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43 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

It's not rare, kibble have had up to half their intake from England at varying times.
They had capacity, down south they had a need.

And you know this how?

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Widely reported in the media, much to Kibble's embarrassment.

Re the quote above its also on Kibble's media guff.

Whilst MY input into BTB is with paisley/St Mirren in mind...

I have no quibble about the nationality or locale to which Kibble offers help.

please find another genuine reasons to reject them as partners.

 

if any...

Edited by antrin

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On the face of it this looks like the kind of community involvement I was banging on about - and criticised for wanting - when Gordon Scott took control of the club.

It looks like a positive move but given the responses at the time I got from various members of the SMiSA commitee I'll wait to see much more detail before rushing to rejoin

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6 minutes ago, Dickson said:

On the face of it this looks like the kind of community involvement I was banging on about - and criticised for wanting - when Gordon Scott took control of the club.

It looks like a positive move but given the responses at the time I got from various members of the SMiSA commitee I'll wait to see much more detail before rushing to rejoin

Hello Stuart. Where have you been hiding?

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27 minutes ago, Dickson said:

On the face of it this looks like the kind of community involvement I was banging on about - and criticised for wanting - when Gordon Scott took control of the club.

It looks like a positive move but given the responses at the time I got from various members of the SMiSA commitee I'll wait to see much more detail before rushing to rejoin

WB. :thumbs2

PS Your posse will be overjoyed. :lol:

Edited by faraway saint

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What happens if Kibble go belly up?


Their shares will be sold off. As far as I can see, there is nothing else being suggested that they'll own.

Cheers, I guess this means that in theory they could be using government  grants to buy the shares.  Also if Saints make any profit, does this mean that the kibble are entitled to re-invested a share of it in their other interests? Think its not what I joined so a no from me until some of the questions on here are answered.


Kibble will be shareholders, so they'll only get money if a dividend is paid, something that has never happened to my knowledge.

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Kibble will be shareholders, so they'll only get money if a dividend is paid, something that has never happened to my knowledge.
They Re in it to make money by running programmes that our community trust is supposed to run.
For example the Street Stuff contract with the council is over £200k...
That funding, and a whole lot more will go straight to Kibble. No wonder they see it as a good investment? Its worth millions to them, money going straight out of the club!
We cannot sleepwalk into this just because Scott is bored, lazy and wants his money back quick!
He... and the Smisa committee made solemn commitments... they have to be held to those!
Who wants to be known as Kibble FC

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They Re in it to make money by running programmes that our community trust is supposed to run.
For example the Street Stuff contract with the council is over £200k...
That funding, and a whole lot more will go straight to Kibble. No wonder they see it as a good investment? Its worth millions to them, money going straight out of the club!
We cannot sleepwalk into this just because Scott is bored, lazy and wants his money back quick!
He... and the Smisa committee made solemn commitments... they have to be held to those!
Who wants to be known as Kibble FC
The post I was replying to was asking about Kibble taking money from SMFC if the club made a profit, I wasn't talking about anything else.

How much do SMFC spend on the Street Stuff? Does it actually make anything for the club? I'm assuming that the £200k is actually all spent on the project, is it not?

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54 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

They Re in it to make money by running programmes that our community trust is supposed to run.
For example the Street Stuff contract with the council is over £200k...
That funding, and a whole lot more will go straight to Kibble. No wonder they see it as a good investment? Its worth millions to them, money going straight out of the club!
We cannot sleepwalk into this just because Scott is bored, lazy and wants his money back quick!
He... and the Smisa committee made solemn commitments... they have to be held to those!
Who wants to be known as Kibble FC

Kibble as a whole organisation received approx 300k in grants in the last year.  How is a tie in with SMFC worth "millions" in grant aid. You really are talking total crap here.

Grant money that comes into the club goes straight back out (the example you quoted is perfect) that's the whole point of it !  No one makes money from the 200k (if it is that only got your figs here) for projects like Street Stuff. The cash goes straight into the project so therefore the runner of that project is not really an issue. 

Oh and you know how exactly that Kibble will run the Street Stuff project ???

You clearly know absolutely nothing about third sector activities, structure and funding so stop posting utter nonsense. Their accounts are public record - it's all freely available for you but instead you will just make crap up.

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

They Re in it to make money by running programmes that our community trust is supposed to run.
For example the Street Stuff contract with the council is over £200k...
That funding, and a whole lot more will go straight to Kibble. No wonder they see it as a good investment? Its worth millions to them, money going straight out of the club!
We cannot sleepwalk into this just because Scott is bored, lazy and wants his money back quick!
He... and the Smisa committee made solemn commitments... they have to be held to those!
Who wants to be known as Kibble FC

Jesus, a minority stakeholder is going to come in and say ‘see that £200k council contract, that’s now coming to us and won’t be used for street football anymore’ 

This is next level tinfoil hat meltdown, even from someone with LPM’s record 😂

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