Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Who has been brilliant both games we have played them. Danny though it was best to give him a shitty one year extension after all he done for us then go with two untried young goalies. Danny hasn't got it he probably wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the cup. How long can we live in the past though Great to see you posting like mad again norrie. Did we lose today? Happy 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 We lost dibble we lost to another bog standard team who have taken over us. Now you need to go and study the season so far and tell me why it is going well. We're going nowhere and our players are better than the current position. I'm sure you like Danny seeing as you defend all the time but it's not good enough and his time should be up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 We lost dibble we lost to another bog standard team who have taken over us. Now you need to go and study the season so far and tell me why it is going well. We're going nowhere and our players are better than the current position. I'm sure you like Danny seeing as you defend all the time but it's not good enough and his time should be up your a f**kin idiot did the manager miss the chances on the park.......WELL????? win as a team and lose as a team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 your a f**kin idiot did the manager miss the chances on the park.......WELL????? win as a team and lose as a team what do you see as a managers job? What makes the difference, in your opinion, between a successful manager and an unsuccessful one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 It would be all too easy to hark back to the halcyon days when we were were regularly in the mix at the top end; in cup semi finals; and in Europe... and maybe for old farts like me that is still in the back of the mind. Especially moreso given that Killie were rotting in division two at the time and Hearts were the perennial yo-yo club between spl and first division. However... to do so would also be to look at Dumbarton, Clydebank et al as top clubs! Pozbaird summed it up well and in a much more recent context for me... Falkirk; Hamilton; Dunfermline; The Rangers... all clubs that have fallen out of the SPL/SPFL in our time as a top flight club. "We might get into the top six at times" you say... well if you agree with that then why criticise fans for having aspirations? ICT; Ross County; St Johnstone; Motherwell... ... we are not a smaller or less successful club than any of these... so why can we match their poor runs... but never seem to go on the same kind of positive runs as them? Is it wrong to ask? To challenge ourselves? To want better? Wanting is fine, expecting is another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 what do you see as a managers job? What makes the difference, in your opinion, between a successful manager and an unsuccessful one? a guy who has more football sense than a bunch of (albeit) passionate fans the question is what is success for st.mirren? at this point we have McGinn 19 yrs old Nesmith 19 yrs old Kelly 20 yrs old McLean 21 yrs old Newton 22 yrs old no manager in the land can get consistency out these players,but they are oozing/bulging with potential and who works with these guys every day on the training pitch???? as a club we have not got money in abundance but we have a great crop of good youngsters who are coming to fruition under the guidance of Danny Lennon and tommy the managers job is not just on a match day LOOK what we have on the park and then think what a job he is doing so to answer your question...Danny Lennon is a success.....in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 a guy who has more football sense than a bunch of (albeit) passionate fans the question is what is success for st.mirren? at this point we have McGinn 19 yrs old Nesmith 19 yrs old Kelly 20 yrs old McLean 21 yrs old Newton 22 yrs old no manager in the land can get consistency out these players,but they are oozing/bulging with potential and who works with these guys every day on the training pitch???? as a club we have not got money in abundance but we have a great crop of good youngsters who are coming to fruition under the guidance of Danny Lennon and tommy the managers job is not just on a match day LOOK what we have on the park and then think what a job he is doing so to answer your question...Danny Lennon is a success.....in my opinion I won't and don't disagree with your opinion based on what you say... ... but do you think we have the ability and potential to be doing better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Zo Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 On a positive note we will beat celtic on Sunday. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1877 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Agree- expect the unexpected!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Wanting is fine, expecting is another matter Agree- expect the unexpected!! I'll settle for wanting the unexpected!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Butcher and McInnes are playing with budgets that we can never match. Dunfermline, Dundee and Hearts collapsed because they spent money they never had to keep up, and we know what happened at Ipox. Should we do the same? No, we shouldn't. What I'm saying is that while continuing to spend what we do spend - we have seen big clubs who usually finish above us tumble below us, and we have seen traditionally bigger clubs like Aberdeen and Hibs perform (for a lot of the time) no better than we did, as both clubs spent time struggling near the foot of the table - so I think the climate is right for a club like ours with the squad we do have to be doing better than we are. We have seen St Mirren ditch (with all due respect) guys like Paddy Cregg and Gareth Wardlaw, and a perma-injured Craig Dargo, and bring in guys like Thommo, Teale and sign McGowan permanently, get more than decent loanees in, and have real talent like McGinn, McLean, Naismith and Kelly come through. In the current Scottish football climate, while NOT overspending, we have somewhat 'tread water' - which is a damn sight better than 'doing a Hearts or Rangers, Livvy or Dundee', but the timing and events have never been better for St Mirren to move up the food chain from where we seem to be stuck. Despite some recent upturns in some results, I am simply not convinced that the current management team are getting the best out of what is a more than decent SPFL squad - when you look at the relative strengths and squads of the current crop of teams. Just my opinion. If we can't aim higher than just avoiding relegation with so many clubs up the shitter without a paddle, when will we ever? Edited January 2, 2014 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 your a f**kin idiotdid the manager miss the chances on the park.......WELL????? win as a team and lose as a Danny is not the man to progress this football team that's my view you are totally entitled to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I won't and don't disagree with your opinion based on what you say... ... but do you think we have the ability and potential to be doing better? of course..... but realising that the players we have and the age they are...we should all know it aint gonna happen week in week out i dont know what age you are but i am 50...seen st.mirren for a long long time and been disappointed on many many occassions (it seems to be in our DNA) ive seen us draw with aberdeen at love street 2-2 to go top of the league with only 7 games to go....and think we finished 4th that year...cant remember hammerby,mechelin,3 scottish cup semi's in a row....(just as well we didnt have the internet in those days or i would be like some in here...calling for heads to roll) how good are the young players going to be next season....saints are heading in the right direction under DL lets NOT do a Mr.Tan....lets keep to the long term plan and put up with the ups and downs along the way What if we win the Scottish Cup this year???? its possible...we have the ability and potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 of course..... but realising that the players we have and the age they are...we should all know it aint gonna happen week in week out i dont know what age you are but i am 50...seen st.mirren for a long long time and been disappointed on many many occassions (it seems to be in our DNA) ive seen us draw with aberdeen at love street 2-2 to go top of the league with only 7 games to go....and think we finished 4th that year...cant remember hammerby,mechelin,3 scottish cup semi's in a row....(just as well we didnt have the internet in those days or i would be like some in here...calling for heads to roll) how good are the young players going to be next season....saints are heading in the right direction under DL lets NOT do a Mr.Tan....lets keep to the long term plan and put up with the ups and downs along the way What if we win the Scottish Cup this year???? its possible...we have the ability and potential I'm ages with you mate and have shared your experieces. I am always one for supporting and encouraging the players and management... and will continue to do so. I appreciated the improvements Gus made and supported him until it became blatantly obvious he had peaked before the potential of the team had. I had been willing him to prove the doubters wrong. I have supported Danny all the way and again am incredibly appreciative of the squad he has assembled; the improvements he has made; and the young players that his team have developed that are now getting a chance to shine. I have not given up hope and will continue to support the manager and most certainly the players... but it would be foolish not to have concerns IMHO. I know Danny is a young manager learning his trade... but others seem to be faster learners. I do always worry about the devil unknown and would be much much happier to settle for stability at a relatively high level (a la Motherwell or ICT) than the emotional turmoil we have now... possibly because after having lived through all we have shared over the decades... I know how close do being a right good side we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm ages with you mate and have shared your experieces. I am always one for supporting and encouraging the players and management... and will continue to do so. I appreciated the improvements Gus made and supported him until it became blatantly obvious he had peaked before the potential of the team had. I had been willing him to prove the doubters wrong. I have supported Danny all the way and again am incredibly appreciative of the squad he has assembled; the improvements he has made; and the young players that his team have developed that are now getting a chance to shine. I have not given up hope and will continue to support the manager and most certainly the players... but it would be foolish not to have concerns IMHO. I know Danny is a young manager learning his trade... but others seem to be faster learners. I do always worry about the devil unknown and would be much much happier to settle for stability at a relatively high level (a la Motherwell or ICT) than the emotional turmoil we have now... possibly because after having lived through all we have shared over the decades... I know how close do being a right good side we are. your so right....but its not going to happen overnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 a guy who has more football sense than a bunch of (albeit) passionate fans the question is what is success for st.mirren? at this point we have McGinn 19 yrs old Nesmith 19 yrs old Kelly 20 yrs old McLean 21 yrs old Newton 22 yrs old no manager in the land can get consistency out these players,but they are oozing/bulging with potential and who works with these guys every day on the training pitch???? as a club we have not got money in abundance but we have a great crop of good youngsters who are coming to fruition under the guidance of Danny Lennon and tommy the managers job is not just on a match day LOOK what we have on the park and then think what a job he is doing so to answer your question...Danny Lennon is a success.....in my opinion You make some valid points, but the 2nd bottom one stands out to me - when I look on the park, most weeks, I think our team should be performing better. I think Danny's biggest failing is that he can't, for whatever reason, get the best out of a talented group of players on a regular enough basis. Its been said a million times, but he now has a squad at his disposal which in my opinion is better than that of Hearts, Killie, Ross County, Partick, St. Johnstone and possibly Inverness - yet we fail to show any consistency in the league whatsoever. Your point about the age of our players is also valid - however Inverness also have a young team and are fying high - Shinnie (22), Meekings (21), Doran (22), Ross (22), Watkins (22) - these boys are all still relatievly young yet seem to find consistency easier than our boys. Danny doesn't have the answer, I certainly don,t have the answer, but our failure to ever build on positive league results for more than 3 or 4 games at a time baffles me when other teams can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 The same as Inverness, St. Johnstone & Motherwell? Danny Lennon has had a budget that Butcher could never match while he was at Inverness! Motherwell, who went into administration, and ICT who have just appointed Yogi Hughes? No thanks. And the Fakes are bankrolled as well. As for your "we'd be bottom if not for Hearts and the **** going belly up" - what a load of sh*te. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 It would be all too easy to hark back to the halcyon days when we were were regularly in the mix at the top end; in cup semi finals; and in Europe... and maybe for old farts like me that is still in the back of the mind. Especially moreso given that Killie were rotting in division two at the time and Hearts were the perennial yo-yo club between spl and first division. However... to do so would also be to look at Dumbarton, Clydebank et al as top clubs! Pozbaird summed it up well and in a much more recent context for me... Falkirk; Hamilton; Dunfermline; The Rangers... all clubs that have fallen out of the SPL/SPFL in our time as a top flight club. "We might get into the top six at times" you say... well if you agree with that then why criticise fans for having aspirations? ICT; Ross County; St Johnstone; Motherwell... ... we are not a smaller or less successful club than any of these... so why can we match their poor runs... but never seem to go on the same kind of positive runs as them? Is it wrong to ask? To challenge ourselves? To want better? Yes of course we should aim for better, but we shouldn't go into a hissy fit when it doesn't happen. Roy Keane went ballistic because the Irish didn't believe they could win the World Cup, and does anyone remember Ally McLeod's Argentina fiasco? He had 50000 fools urn up at hampden believing that winning the trophy was a formality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazah Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Agree with a lot of people here in that I just don't think Danny gets the best out of the squad we have. Again I thought the subs today were poor and I accept I know sod all about the team day in day out but why bring on Reilly and Harkins late on when we could have got at least a point today if we had closed up a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Sean Kelly is a great prospect, but he has to learn to stop turning his back on attacking players and letting them get on his blind side. It is a fundamental skill for a full-back, and something he will develop in time. That said, I wouldn't want him dropped as he and Naismith are the future of our defence, and, in fairness, the central defenders were more culpable this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yes of course we should aim for better, but we shouldn't go into a hissy fit when it doesn't happen. Roy Keane went ballistic because the Irish didn't believe they could win the World Cup, and does anyone remember Ally McLeod's Argentina fiasco? He had 50000 fools urn up at hampden believing that winning the trophy was a formality. but the single was good and we can still sing along! eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Sean Kelly is a great prospect, but he has to learn to stop turning his back on attacking players and letting them get on his blind side. It is a fundamental skill for a full-back, and something he will develop in time. That said, I wouldn't want him dropped as he and Naismith are the future of our defence, and, in fairness, the central defenders were more culpable this afternoon. I have said for a few weeks that Kelly reminds me so much of Dummett of last year! Bags of ability and energy... but poor judgement at times and very patchy positional sense. (That's why I would have started with Grainger behind Kelly today as I also believe it would have released Kelly as an attacking threat... but with Johnstone's pace, I can see why Danny kept Kelly at full back). The thing is... this time last season I was very critical of Dummett... but he ended up not too shabby a player with experience, encouragement and coaching! I hope Kelly gets the same experience, encouragement and coaching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastlandssaint Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I was screaming for a red card when Jason Naismith was running in on goal , but the referee made no decision whatso ever and played on . a major turning point in the match ,.two hand balls , fouls against us 1st half ,okay ! two hand balls against killie playes play on,? These we subtle things help change a game . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was screaming for a red card when Jason Naismith was running in on goal , but the referee made no decision whatso ever and played on . a major turning point in the match ,.two hand balls , fouls against us 1st half ,okay ! two hand balls against killie playes play on,? These we subtle things help change a game . Was hoping to see the Naismith incident on the hilights, but unfortunately the BBC editor decided not to bother showing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Tell Danny Lennon to stop saying we want top six then. In fact tell Inverness , Ross county, Motherwell, st.johnstone to all chuck it your small clubs with small fan bases so you shouldn't be in the top six!!! Each of these teams have made the top six. Do they have bigger supports? I think that currently the team has stalled and the current management need to use January to wheel and deal and if not then we won't do much. If we don't do much will the board keep the same manager? In fact it could be they don't sanction players coming anyhow! Regardless of this we need to move up we need to be ambitious and not settle for being a wee team from Paisley who should be happy just to survive What the f**k is it about being in the top six that is so important? Do they give out ribbons for a top six place or something? Surely any Premiership club, and I mean any club, with real ambition the minimum acceptable standard should be a place in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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