Saints V Celtic Lunchtime Sun 5 Jan

[Mid Calder Saint]

I can accept getting beat today but not in the manner. I feel our shape and tactics were wrong. However we should be three points better off hsd we beat hearts and drawn with killie. Danny has to the blame in those games for the shocking changes and use of subs.

[nedflanders123]

While some have questioned DL's tactics I simply feel that our team is far too lightweight in number, under strength in a number of areas and some players are not good enough to play week in and week out at this level. I also think that a lot of our players were knackered - particularly in the second half - due to the number of games played in the last week or so and the lack of suitable replacements in the squad to replace them. I know it is the same for most teams but Celtic could rotate their team plus when they had the bulk of the possession then they did not have to expend as much energy as we did chasing the ball.

There will need to be some dealings in the transfer market to bolster the squad as much as anything else. Some are knickerwetting here about Ross Country winning two games in a row (they are still below us) and Thistle winning their first game in ages (they are still below us). I did not expect anything from today's game if I am being honest as Celtic have far better players than we do. This was a bad result on the back of being unlucky in our last 2 games and our players looked shattered. I still firmly believe that we have a squad better than Thistle and RC and will finish above them. If Danny can bring in 2 or 3 decent enough players (loan or otherwise) in the right positions then we will be fine.

[BuddieinEK]

It seemed to me that, as soon as Celtic scored, our players capitulated. Doesn't that constitute 'chucking it'.

On Thursday, the Killie players swarmed all over Saints like a rash. Why didn't we do that? Brown was given acres of space and all time time in the world . Was that part of the gameplay? We gave them far too much respect.

Granted, Celtic stepped it up a couple of gears after the break, bit it was the goal that turned the game and we fell apart. It could easily have been 6 or 7 today.

Nope... not in my view.

I reckon that as soon as Celtic scored they sniffed blood and stepped up a gear... with the players we had... we had no more gears to move up. We had to tighten up in the middle and contain things at that point... but the young players lacked guidance, direction or leadership... and as a result were simply over-run and far too stretched.

Celtic made the ball do the work whilst out players chased shadows, knackering themselves in the process.

That's how I see it... but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

[Tam M]

First of all, I think a bit of respect has to go to Danny Lennon. Everybody expected Vanzy to come in to the middle of the park today, but he decided to go for it with two up front, which was a brave move. I have respect for him for trying it.

First half I thought Celtic were really poor, and I would say that frustrating would be the word that summed up the first half for me. Despite Celtic being really poor, we failed to really get out of first gear. They were there for the taking in the first half and we failed to do anything about it. We were giving the ball away when we were under no pressure and making poor decisions when it came to what passes to make and when to get the ball into the box. We had a fair bit of possession in the first half and to not force Foster into one save was quite disappointing. But if someone said 0-0 at HT before the game, we would have bitten their hand off. McGowan I felt had a shocker of a first half, perhaps it was because he was playing too deep, or because he has other things on his mind. Kelly looked very nervous as well, and this affected his performance.

I said at HT Celtic would get a bollocking from Neil Lennon at HT and be fired up for the second half and that we would need to raise our game to get something out of it.

We played far too deep in the second half and as soon as Celtic scored it was game over. Our heads went down, and Celtic's confidence increased as the game went on. That is what p*ssed me off as there was no fight from the team in the second half. They were happy to let this average Celtic team humiliate them. I chucked it after the 4th goal.

I just hope the likes of Kelly, Naismith and Campbell don't let this result play on their minds too much.

What is worrying is that only a few weeks ago we were talking about the top six as we were only 3 points behind St Johnstone. We're back in 9th, only 3 points ahead of the play off place. We can't afford to get stuck into another rut like we did at the beginning of the season. Looking ahead, I'd maybe give Kelly a rest for a few weeks and give Grainger the opportunity to win his LB position back, feel that the pressure is perhaps getting to him a wee bit and a break could do him good. McGowan also has to up his performances.

[Drew]

Nope... not in my view.

I reckon that as soon as Celtic scored they sniffed blood and stepped up a gear... with the players we had... we had no more gears to move up. We had to tighten up in the middle and contain things at that point... but the young players lacked guidance, direction or leadership... and as a result were simply over-run and far too stretched.

Celtic made the ball do the work whilst out players chased shadows, knackering themselves in the process.

That's how I see it... but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I do agree with that up to a point, but that doesn't excuse backing off the Celtic players and letting them dictate in all areas of the pitch.

[delpierro]

well, one thing is settled; all this talk about finishing in the top six has been firmly put to bed.

so, 1-0 tae the knickerwetters :-)

[Leado]

Thought first half we battled well rode our luck at times but overall going in 0-0 at halftime you would be happy with. 2nd once they got their goal players collapsed, I though the players looked really tired, I really hope DL has got a few players lined up, the squad is so thin and really lacks options. Main thing is we pick ourselves up and move on, they took 5 of Motherwell and they have now won 5 games in row.

[Froggie]

That says it all really... how the hell can you call yourself a supporter when you are not even prepared to give folks a chance right at the start of their tenure?

Very few fans wanted Lennon after finally getting rid of the previous disaster. There are about half a dozen times already when the current manager would have been dismissed by other teams, after four years he has got us absolutely nowhere, apart from second bottom of the league on a regular basis (we will be there in a fort nights time again)

I've spent £40 in the last week supporting the team.

Go on then, tell me I'm wrong about Lennon!

[Seaside Nipper]

Right, just back ..........here we go

Rode our luck in the first half, 0-0 opportunity knocks. Second half.........

Tactics all wrong ! We had to step it up and look to develop some play further up the park, keep Thommo as a focal point only up front, he was clearly knackered after the first half chasing back routine.

We sat far far far too deep , we invited the inevitable passes into the first goal, backing off people with unbelievable naivety. Feck knowswhat happened in the half time team talk but we looked to be lacking in any belief, any ambition at all after the break. We should have been up and after a team on our patch that were struggling to find form and rhythm......... held them and dodged a bullet, but no.

We lacked any response, we looked totally lethargic, we had no snap , no pace, no idea of an out ball , no clue at all about working the ball into channels, we looked bereft of fitness and as for lack of first touch I'm still mystified how a top team can fail so often to pass a ball to a player ahead of him on the park. The minute we lost the goal , frankly we chucked it.

I'm appalled , dismayed, annoyed, sick.

Default for 2014........ On that form , well unless we snap into some defending discipline and instruct McGinn to carry the ball forward more often, we are headed for relegation play off misery, again !

Anyway, Happy new year , every buddie !

[BuddieinEK]

Very few fans wanted Lennon after finally getting rid of the previous disaster. There are about half a dozen times already when the current manager would have been dismissed by other teams, after four years he has got us absolutely nowhere, apart from second bottom of the league on a regular basis (we will be there in a fort nights time again)

I've spent £40 in the last week supporting the team.

Go on then, tell me I'm wrong about Lennon!

I'm not commenting on his position at this moment in time... simply pointing out that your admission that you wanted him out the door from the minute he was appointed is totally out of order and certainly not going to help him or the club.

[faraway saint]

Very few fans wanted Lennon after finally getting rid of the previous disaster. There are about half a dozen times already when the current manager would have been dismissed by other teams, after four years he has got us absolutely nowhere, apart from second bottom of the league on a regular basis (we will be there in a fort nights time again)

I've spent £40 in the last week supporting the team.

Go on then, tell me I'm wrong about Lennon!

Clown alert.

Just to help froggie, 8th in the league, our BEST ever, and a daft League Cup win.

I've no real problem with people stating a reasoned argument but when you get clowns like this, well, detracts from any real point.

Come to think of it, I love froggie and others.

[Drew]

I think what many folk have mentioned in terms of the players looking weary rings true.

That said, we all knew that far too much emphasis would be placed on Thompson when we offloaded our other strikers only to make a panic signing at the 11th hour. The guy has given his all, but he is only human - well, perhaps super-human, but even so....

McGinn took a knock on Thursday after throwing everything into the game yet featured today, while McGregor is surely due a breather (nearly said break, aherm) from time to time given his injury difficulties.

I'm not surprised that the players all but chucked it after Celtic scored. I suspect they had little left in the tank, though a bit of passion might have driven them on you'd have hoped.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Drew

[Ayrshire Saints]

Just because he runs about like an idiot without contributing for 90 mins doesn't mean he's playing well. IMO he is hiding from getting involved in anything that may result in an injury !

Hiding ? I think It's the fact he DOESN'T hide when he is not playing well that draws attention to his bad form. His passing especially has been poor for 4 or 5 games however despite this he still looks to get on the ball and thus his bad form is highlighted. No young player can be criticised for looking to get on the ball when not playing well if anything it's a plus point. Yes we didn't put enough tackles in during the second half but losing to Celtic is never the end of the world. It's tightening up at the bottom but we are still close enough to the top 6 to be in touch and the fakes are being drawn into the mix now too especially if we beat them on Saturday.

[saintnextlifetime]

I think what many folk have mentioned in terms of the players looking weary rings true.

That said, we all knew that far too much emphasis would be placed on Thompson when we offloaded our other strikers only to make a panic signing at the 11th hour. The guy has given his all, but he is only human - well, perhaps super-human, but even so....

McGinn took a knock on Thursday after throwing everything into the game yet featured today, while McGregor is surely due a breather (nearly said break, aherm) from time to time given his injury difficulties.

I'm not surprised that the players all but chucked it after Celtic scored. I suspect they had little left in the tank, though a bit of passion might have driven them on you'd have hoped.

Mc Ginn was very good as was Thommo , trying to drag us back into the game. Macgregors run up the park was outstanding , he should do it more often now that he has settled back into the team. .

Players weary? Just watching it again on the telly(Ian Crocker is an annoying fanny of a commentator) now and it looks like we were okay in the first half but we should have players who are fit enough to cope with the festive schedule . You know , a top cyclist might have to compete for up to 7hrs a day which makes 90 odd minutes pale into insignificance. .

[Callum Gilhooley]

Mc Ginn was very good as was Thommo , trying to drag us back into the game. Macgregors run up the park was outstanding , he should do it more often now that he has settled back into the team. .

Players weary? Just watching it again on the telly(Ian Crocker is an annoying fanny of a commentator) now and it looks like we were okay in the first half but we should have players who are fit enough to cope with the festive schedule . You know , a top cyclist might have to compete for up to 7hrs a day which makes 90 odd minutes pale into insignificance. .

Dont start me on cyclists, lycra clad drug fuelled fannies !

[faraway saint]

Dont start me on cyclists, lycra clad drug fuelled fannies !

Still riding that Chopper?

[Callum Gilhooley]

Still riding that Chopper?

You keep ma chopper out of this !!

[stevenston saint]

you could allways put me on ignore

Or maybe you could just f%ck off ?

[thewhiteman]

Just because he runs about like an idiot without contributing for 90 mins doesn't mean he's playing well. IMO he is hiding from getting involved in anything that may result in an injury !

lack of playing well, accepted, but no one can ever accuse newton of not trying, our midfield generally have some very excellent players and in today's game were stretched against long term proven professionals

despite being dissapointed today I am still impressed with a lot of our young players attitude and ability

although a lost cause at the 70 minute mark we brought on two subs at at 16/17 ish the champions league failures brought on two players that cost 2 - 3 million, remember guys that's what we are up against

although newton sometimes seems out of place, McGowan holds the ball with limited back up, McLean very much a form player, and mc ginn the player Steven Gerard hopes to be, our midfield works hard and have the a massive amount of ability, I think it's a bit unfair to single out any individual

jw

[thewhiteman]

and, hiding ! it's the midfield players, particularly the younger ones, who make themselves available to take the ball on a regular basis. watch us at throw ins, mc ginn, Newton, mc gownan ( not so young) Campbell, ( or McLean tho not playing today) who actually want the ball, everyone else, particularly today didn't want to know when it came to taking responsibility

ps we're crap at throw ins for or against

jw

[faraway saint]

and, hiding ! it's the midfield players, particularly the younger ones, who make themselves available to take the ball on a regular basis. watch us at throw ins, mc ginn, Newton, mc gownan ( not so young) Campbell, ( or McLean tho not playing today) who actually want the ball, everyone else, particularly today didn't want to know when it came to taking responsibility

ps we're crap at throw ins for or against

jw

and corners................

[thewhiteman]

and. . due to my limited keyboard skills please feel free to add in some angry faces on my behalf on any of the above posts

ps it's amazing how much more you can drink when it's an early kick off, and still be home for tea !

[Drew]

I'm not criticising Newton, as he doesn't really owe us anything. He has more than contributed during his time at the club and if he is being a bit careful in order to stay fit for any future move, I can't really fault the lad in those circumstances.

What I would fault, however, is the manager not subbing a player when he is off his game (for whatever reason). Newton should have been hooked during the second half against Hearts. He was looking a bit lost, though in fairness, picked up again in the last 10 minutes. More significantly, however, was his poor early season form that seen him play games when he was clearly struggling for whatever reason.

Edit for typo.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Drew

[thewhiteman]

I'm not criticising Newton, as he doesn't really owe us anything. He has more than contributed during his time at the club and if he is being a bit careful in order to stay fit for any future move, I can't really fault the lad in those circumstances.

What I would fault, however, is the manager not subbing a player when he is off his game (for whatever reason). Newton should have been hooked during the second half against Hearts. He was looking a bit lost, though in fairness, picked up again in the last 10 minutes. More significantly, however, was his poor early season form that seem him play games when he was clearly struggling for whatever reason.

there's not a lot of options though

[Drew]

there's not a lot of options though

That's a valid point, though I remain unclear as to who is culpable in that respect.