nosferatu Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Yes, we need a scouting system but anyone who says that David Longwell hasn't produced must be deranged. It takes a number of years to bring players through a youth system and we are just starting to see the benefits of the last few years. He's been in charge for more than a decade. Long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langbank Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Gus sat at a question answer night and categorically stated that if a young player was good enough to play in the Premier league they would not be at a club like St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 What utter crap. What great youngsters didn't get their chance under gus but subsequently went on to make a name for themselves? Stephen mcginn & David Barron both became regulars under gus. When we won the first division under gus we had guys like charlie Adam, kirk broadfoot & Chris smith all playing regularly Gus wanted rid of Kenny McLean at one point and generally didn't have time nor did he trust youngsters. You can't argue with his record as a manager as he was successful, but he preferred experienced tried and tested players over youngsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Longwell should stay assuming he wants to .... not bothered either way tbh .there are plenty coaches out there Who don't have a hit for themselves , the way longwell does ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Something is obviously wrong with the youth development set up because there hasn't been a regular production line of talent coming off the conveyor belt over the years. Like Windae Cleaner I'd prefer to think that the problem stems from the lack of a proper scouting base and problems in recruiting the kind of player the club needs but as head of the youth development programme Longwell's got to be looking more and more culpable in what is a results based industry. It's all very well blaming Gus McPherson for not promoting kids into the first team but as nosferatu says where are all those brilliant young talents that slipped through St Mirren's fingers during that time? The only player I can think of who has gone on to do anything in the game is John Baird and he wasn't a product of the youth system. He was signed in by McPherson and Millen. Even then he's never progressed beyond Scottish Championship level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart-C87 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Surely simon lappins had better career than john baird? Interesting post btw as one thing we have been commended on over years is youth policy n set up etc, i do agree with certain parts btw, before people have a go i have been a member for years but rarely post due to the attitude of many of our fans, i for one thing relegation can only do us good as we will have hands forced to farm our youth etc and look at end of season alone when young boys stepped up, excuse grammer if u will ad i am typing on phone like a text message. i think u will find also that big longwells work has been noticed at bigger clubs than buddies and we will be lucky to keep him on board next year. I was up watcjing youth game yesterday in edinburgh v hearts and yes we got beat and hearts did have some stand outs but theres a few positives in ours also and it isnt competitive with rolling subs so new things can be tried tested then player can have another go etc after having chat with coach, as i say i think theres light at end if tunnel and buddies should try break habit of a lifetime and be fu#$@¥* positive for once and fet behind our team. Have a nice day buddies, p.s. we hate morton n we hate morton we are the morton haters (more to look forwrd to) Just thinkin are u remembering mcginn who went south and back at bigger club up here arguably lol plus many in first team the now have potential thay didnt just magically appear Edited May 25, 2015 by Mart-C87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Good start Mart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Good start Mart. Shocker of a start you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Something is obviously wrong with the youth development set up because there hasn't been a regular production line of talent coming off the conveyor belt over the years. Like Windae Cleaner I'd prefer to think that the problem stems from the lack of a proper scouting base and problems in recruiting the kind of player the club needs but as head of the youth development programme Longwell's got to be looking more and more culpable in what is a results based industry. It's all very well blaming Gus McPherson for not promoting kids into the first team but as nosferatu says where are all those brilliant young talents that slipped through St Mirren's fingers during that time? The only player I can think of who has gone on to do anything in the game is John Baird and he wasn't a product of the youth system. He was signed in by McPherson and Millen. Even then he's never progressed beyond Scottish Championship level. Slabber Slabber....That basically sums up the pish you spout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 An agenda of wanting quality youths? Your agenda just appears to be yo attack anyone who disagrees with you Clueless Admit it. Was it you or your son who Longwell told wasn't good enough? Let's cut the crap and get straight to the issue. Your audience awaits. Let's hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 No they didn't. The BOD relegated us. Bad decisions off field yes but at the end of they day our young players aren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Bad decisions off field yes but at the end of they day our young players aren't good enough. You're blaming our young players for our relegation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) You're blaming our young players for our relegation? Not entirely, the entire squad and BOD collectively relegated us. I said they weren't good enough, which is pretty hard to argue with. No point boasting that we had 7 academy players starting matches if they led us to relegation. Edited May 25, 2015 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not entirely, the entire squad and BOD collectively relegated us. I said they weren't good enough, which is pretty hard to argue with. No point boasting that we had 7 academy players starting matches if they led us to relegation. I would say that it was the experienced players who let them down, I would also say that a decent manger would have organised the team better. If Ian Murray gets them organised and brings in some decent experienced players i think the young players will flourish in the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not entirely, the entire squad and BOD collectively relegated us. I said they weren't good enough, which is pretty hard to argue with. No point boasting that we had 7 academy players starting matches if they led us to relegation. While I agree in principle, it only tells part of the story. I'd certainly say Hearts' young players were clearly a talented bunch last season but simply weren't ready for the rigours of first team football every week at that level, they'd have still finished second bottom even without the points deduction. They dropped a level and flourished this season and will all come back next season as a stronger more cohesive unit as a result. If guys like Naismith, Mallan, Baird and Kelly can progress the way the young Hearts guys did this season, then we'll be okay. I can't wait for next season already. Most I've looked forward to it in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'd certainly say Hearts' young players were clearly a talented bunch last season but simply weren't ready for the rigours of first team football every week at that level, Would you say our youngsters fall under this category? I certainly wouldn't. Mallan is the only one who would IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not entirely, the entire squad and BOD collectively relegated us. I said they weren't good enough, which is pretty hard to argue with. No point boasting that we had 7 academy players starting matches if they led us to relegation. Spot on Dave. If we have realistic expectations of at least making the top four next season , I see only Naismith (based on 13/14) and Mallan as certain starters. Kelly has been ok recently , but had an horrendous season apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) IMO, there's far too much of a softy/loyalty approach towards our youngsters and our senior cup heroes at the moment. The senior players have shown a terrible attitude in recent seasons IMO, both on and off the park and the younger players just haven't quite been good enough. Time to clear out and let Murray get his own guys in and take it from there. I really hope he doesn't fall into the trap of trying to work with these guys, he could be in for a hell of a time if he does. Edited May 25, 2015 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not entirely, the entire squad and BOD collectively relegated us. I said they weren't good enough, which is pretty hard to argue with. No point boasting that we had 7 academy players starting matches if they led us to relegation. What young players in particular? Academy players and young players are different things. McAusland is an academy played but you could hardly call him young, he certainly had a poor season. Stephen Mallan broke through and scored 4 goals from open play as a midfielder (including Scottish goal of the season) in his first half season in senior football. That's an impressive return for a young player at any club in the league. You think he's not good enough? I would and have said there were several reasons for our relegation, the performance of our young players not being one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) What young players in particular? All except Mallan. Stephen Mallan broke through and scored 4 goals from open play as a midfielder (including Scottish goal of the season) in his first half season in senior football. That's an impressive return for a young player at any club in the league. You think he's not good enough? I've already said on this thread, Mallan is the only one of our youngsters who I think performed well enough. I would and have said there were several reasons for our relegation, the performance of our young players not being one of them. Would have to disagree, of course performances from our young players contributed to our relegation. It's not their fault they haven't been good enough but at the end of the day most of them don't have the ability to perform regularly at that level. They've certainly came in a tried their hardest, in fact harder than the senior players IMO but the fact is they weren't good enough. Edited May 25, 2015 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 IMO, there's far too much of a softy/loyalty approach towards our youngsters and our senior cup heroes at the moment. The senior players have shown a terrible attitude in recent seasons IMO, both on and off the park and the younger players just haven't quite been good enough. Time to clear out and let Murray get his own guys in and take it from there. I really hope he doesn't fall into the trap of trying to work with these guys, he could be in for a hell of a time if he does. What do you expect, what a ridiculous statement! What awful circumstances and season for a young player to break into the first team. These lads have worked hard to get where they are and developed year on year to be dismissed as not good enough by the you & the likes of you because the team were relegated. The most seasoned professionals would have struggled to turn things around after the start that St Mirren had to the season. Personally I hope that the club embrace the Youth it has and supplements that with a few good players with a few years under their belt and takes 2-3 Yrs to grow an infrastructure & system that will support St Mirren for many years to come. You clearly don't have a clue about football and Youth development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) What do you expect, what a ridiculous statement! What awful circumstances and season for a young player to break into the first team. These lads have worked hard to get where they are and developed year on year to be dismissed as not good enough by the you & the likes of you because the team were relegated. The most seasoned professionals would have struggled to turn things around after the start that St Mirren had to the season. Personally I hope that the club embrace the Youth it has and supplements that with a few good players with a few years under their belt and takes 2-3 Yrs to grow an infrastructure & system that will support St Mirren for many years to come. You clearly don't have a clue about football and Youth development. I would agree with this if we were just talking about players breaking into the team for the first time. Kelly, Naismith & McGinn were all terrible over the season except the odd performance here and there. Mallan was outstanding, I'm a big fan of his. Baird did well also in the few games he featured, too early to judge him. Edited May 25, 2015 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) I would agree with this if we were just talking about players breaking into the team for the first time. Kelly, Naismith & McGinn were all terrible over the season except the odd performance here and there. Mallan was outstanding, I'm a big fan of his. Baird did well also in the few games he featured, too early to judge him. Ah, now we are talking about something completely different and i would tend to agree with you. I would like to see a nucleus of young players kept, say, Mallan, Baird, Sadlier, Reilly (if he goes to the gym this summer), Kelly & Morgan and build around them - Naismith too maybe but I am concerned about his decision making, he is also quick to blame those around him and is not at all composed on the ball, its all 100 MPH with him. Sadlier must be played out wide on the left or in the hole if we start to play higher up the pitch and play into the feet of the front runners instead of head height. Edited May 25, 2015 by Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 You won't win anything with kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 You won't win anything with kids! OK thanks Alan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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