Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You seem to keep missing the point - players don't pick Dumbarton over St. Mirren, we are not in direct competition with Dumbarton for signing players. They are part time, we are full time. If a player signs for Dumbarton on £500 a week, he can also have a regular full time job. Even a modest job outside of football would result in the player making over £1000 per week. That's why for some players they are more appealing than signing for St. Mirren - if you think St. Mirren are paying over £1000 per week then you need to get a reality check. Do you really think it's the managers fault that he hasn't signed many players yet? He'll be trying to do the best he can with the little money he has, but it takes time trying to get guys to agree to £650 a week when they could get better deals elsewhere. I doubt even Guardiola could have signed any more players than Murray has by now for what the club is offering! (I'm not comparing Ian Murray with the best manager in the world - before anyone says anything!) The point is other clubs can make signings no matter their circumstance. Are you saying most professional footballers dint want full time contracts??? Funny i thought given the amount of DVD's agents send in the opposite was true. So to follow your logic our best chance of success is to go part time as we cant compete with the likes of QoS, Alloa, Falkirk etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 It's going to be a long season ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 The point is other clubs can make signings no matter their circumstance. Are you saying most professional footballers dint want full time contracts??? Funny i thought given the amount of DVD's agents send in the opposite was true. So to follow your logic our best chance of success is to go part time as we cant compete with the likes of QoS, Alloa, Falkirk etc... QOS lost Paul Burns to a job outside of football this season. We've seen plenty evidence of people who don't want to give up a good job for a season or 2 of professional football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) The point is other clubs can make signings no matter their circumstance. Are you saying most professional footballers dint want full time contracts??? Funny i thought given the amount of DVD's agents send in the opposite was true. So to follow your logic our best chance of success is to go part time as we cant compete with the likes of QoS, Alloa, Falkirk etc... It is not just about bringing in players but more whether the players can play to a system or are good enough for certain positions. Add in budget and it is not simply case of throwing money at certain players. The last 2 managers failed with most of their signings and that cost our club a lot of money. Stability will be our target this season rather than promotion. Murray needs time to fix what has been an almighty clusterf**k of the last season. That will take more than a close season to resolve so we need patience and allow him to do his job. If that means taking more time to bring the right personnel in then sobeit. I am not interested in what other clubs are doing (many doing as much as we are) and more about the direction our club is going. So what if Dumbarton have brought in a load of players, that is no guarantee of any success other than an expanded wage bill over the close season. I also doubt they can pay any player £500 a week (over £2k a month) with small gates and less income than we have. Where exactly does a small part time club get that kind of funding? Edited July 21, 2015 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_the_saint Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 It is not just about bringing in players but more whether the players can play to a system or are good enough for certain positions. Add in budget and it is not simply case of throwing money at certain players. The last 2 managers failed with most of their signings and that cost our club a lot of money. Stability will be our target this season rather than promotion. Murray needs time to fix what has been an almighty clusterf**k of the last season. That will take more than a close season to resolve so we need patience and allow him to do his job. If that means taking more time to bring the right personnel in then sobeit. I am not interested in what other clubs are doing (many doing as much as we are) and more about the direction our club is going. So what if Dumbarton have brought in a load of players, that is no guarantee of any success other than an expanded wage bill over the close season. I also doubt they can pay any player £500 a week (over £2k a month) with small gates and less income than we have. Where exactly does a small part time club get that kind of funding? I don't know where they get the money from, but I know that's what their top earners are on, and several of their first team senior players are on not much less. Of course when players go to part time from full time, they tend not to return to full time, so they already know their career is winding down (like Vanzy and Mair last season from us, and Darren Barr this season). That's not really the type of player St. Mirren will be wanting to sign - we'll be looking at players wanting to prove themselves and move onto bigger things (like Agnew) who are prepared to take a shite wage with us for a few years if it means they get noticed a lot more and get a move to a bigger club. The point is other clubs can make signings no matter their circumstance. Are you saying most professional footballers dint want full time contracts??? Funny i thought given the amount of DVD's agents send in the opposite was true. So to follow your logic our best chance of success is to go part time as we cant compete with the likes of QoS, Alloa, Falkirk etc... I'm saying most professional footballers want to make as much money as they can - as you or I would. If a player has been used to getting 1.5k p/w for most of their career, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to suddenly having your income halved - they still have mortgages etc to pay for after all. For players like Darren Barr signing for us, that is what would have happened. Equally the same has happened for Agnew, however he is still young and has the potential to move onto better things (ie more money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 It is not just about bringing in players but more whether the players can play to a system or are good enough for certain positions. Add in budget and it is not simply case of throwing money at certain players. The last 2 managers failed with most of their signings and that cost our club a lot of money. Stability will be our target this season rather than promotion. Murray needs time to fix what has been an almighty clusterf**k of the last season. That will take more than a close season to resolve so we need patience and allow him to do his job. If that means taking more time to bring the right personnel in then sobeit. I am not interested in what other clubs are doing (many doing as much as we are) and more about the direction our club is going. So what if Dumbarton have brought in a load of players, that is no guarantee of any success other than an expanded wage bill over the close season. I also doubt they can pay any player £500 a week (over £2k a month) with small gates and less income than we have. Where exactly does a small part time club get that kind of funding? Promotion may not be your target Ned, but it is explicitly what Gilmour stated the club required whilst appointing a new manager. So his bosses will judge him on an automatic return, or not to the Prem. I agree with your points about getting in the right players that can play the system/systems. That is what makes it even more disconcerting that we are sifting endless trialists Murray knows nothing about in the hope we might turn up someone worth signing. Many including yourself have been at pains to point out to me that Murray 'knows the league' and 'knows the players to get the job done at this level' as he kept Dumbarton up on a shoe string (funny that now some posters are intimating their shoestring is more like a thick piece of rope'. All i am looking for is the evidence he has a plan, and can bring in the right players to carry it out. I don't think he will find that spending all his week looking at trialists, where are the players he supposedly knows can do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 *Spots there's been a lot of activity in the 'Trialists Update' thread - dives in to find out what the latest is* Yet another interesting B&WA thread derailed by whataboutery, knickerwetting, negativity and pointlessly circular debating. Good work, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't know where they get the money from, but I know that's what their top earners are on, and several of their first team senior players are on not much less. Of course when players go to part time from full time, they tend not to return to full time, so they already know their career is winding down (like Vanzy and Mair last season from us, and Darren Barr this season). That's not really the type of player St. Mirren will be wanting to sign - we'll be looking at players wanting to prove themselves and move onto bigger things (like Agnew) who are prepared to take a shite wage with us for a few years if it means they get noticed a lot more and get a move to a bigger club. I'm saying most professional footballers want to make as much money as they can - as you or I would. If a player has been used to getting 1.5k p/w for most of their career, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to suddenly having your income halved - they still have mortgages etc to pay for after all. For players like Darren Barr signing for us, that is what would have happened. Equally the same has happened for Agnew, however he is still young and has the potential to move onto better things (ie more money). I don't think the money issue is as big a thing as you make out when it comes to offering wages to potential signings. The club have decent ST sales and a decent parachute payment this season and next. So their is budget available especially considering how many wage thieves are now off the books. I sincerely doubt the likes of Thommo is on half of last years wedge. Which if you factor in most of the deals that will be done are for year contracts means the club have a decent playing budget to offer, if! The manager brings in decent players to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 *Spots there's been a lot of activity in the 'Trialists Update' thread - dives in to find out what the latest is* Yet another interesting B&WA thread derailed by whataboutery, knickerwetting, negativity and pointlessly circular debating. Good work, guys. Like this quality post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 QOS lost Paul Burns to a job outside of football this season. We've seen plenty evidence of people who don't want to give up a good job for a season or 2 of professional football. Have we? Out of the thousands of available professional footballers in these isles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) My big mucker Shaun lost count of the new trialists arriving at Ralston today. He reckons about 7. Edited July 21, 2015 by class of 76-77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You seem to keep missing the point - players don't pick Dumbarton over St. Mirren, we are not in direct competition with Dumbarton for signing players. They are part time, we are full time. If a player signs for Dumbarton on £500 a week, he can also have a regular full time job. Even a modest job outside of football would result in the player making over £1000 per week. That's why for some players they are more appealing than signing for St. Mirren - if you think St. Mirren are paying over £1000 per week then you need to get a reality check. Do you really think it's the managers fault that he hasn't signed many players yet? He'll be trying to do the best he can with the little money he has, but it takes time trying to get guys to agree to £650 a week when they could get better deals elsewhere. I doubt even Guardiola could have signed any more players than Murray has by now for what the club is offering! (I'm not comparing Ian Murray with the best manager in the world - before anyone says anything!) How would Dumbarton be paying 500 quid per week and St Mirren 650? Not sure your sums add up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 My big mucker Shaun lost count of the new trialists arriving at Ralston today. He reckons about 7. Sign them all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 My big mucker Shaun lost count of the new trialists arriving at Ralston today. He reckons about 7. Awaiting a post from LPM decrying how Murray said there would be less trialists and more carefully selected from here on in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Playing Burnley in a closed door game tomorrow apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB1 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Playing Burnley in a closed door game tomorrow apparently. I take it it'll be a reserve squad if they are playing at Sevco tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Their kit man and bus driver and maybe a few of our hunners of trialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Have we? Out of the thousands of available professional footballers in these isles? My big mucker Shaun lost count of the new trialists arriving at Ralston today. Perhaps into the thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Their kit man and bus driver and maybe a few of our hunners of trialists. Lord Bore-the-tits-off-ye' will currently be researching if Dumbarton FC have managed to secure the services of a cracking kit man and bus driver just like Burnley while Ian Murray piss-farts around giving trials to five ex-McGills Buses men and a ninety year old kit man who recently retired from Beith Juniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lord Bore-the-tits-off-ye' will currently be researching if Dumbarton FC have managed to secure the services of a cracking kit man and bus driver just like Burnley while Ian Murray piss-farts around giving trials to five ex-McGills Buses men and a ninety year old kit man who recently retired from Beith Juniors. There's rumour of a swoop for the Morton kitman after his testimonial . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Awaiting a post from LPM decrying how Murray said there would be less trialists and more carefully selected from here on in. Wait no more i can answer it for LPM, that is what he said and now shaun is saying that 7 rolled up today, hopefully they are the quality he is talking up and not just more rolling stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Two posts on social media about a Spaniard called Eric Garcia arriving at the club today. For a trial presumably, can't find anything more about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Two posts on social media about a Spaniard called Eric Garcia arriving at the club today. For a trial presumably, can't find anything more about him. His brother is a fantastic golfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Is it true they've renamed Ralston 'The Hague' because of the numerous trials..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 His brother is a fantastic golfer. I thought he was a good actor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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