Soctty Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Awareness of chopping and changing managers hasn't worked? Didn't stop them bagging Rae after 6 league games this season [emoji28] Thus becoming the first full time team in Britain to sack their manager this season. Holding up the new board as some bastion of managerial stability? Spare me. My outlook is realistic. Our current position is 11 points from safety in the championship with 13 games to go. Perilous doesn't quite cover it. Who held us up as a bastion of managerial stability? I pointed out the obvious, that we need managerial stability. With the usual balloons demanding we keep sacking managers, we'll never be bastions of any sort of stability.But at least you'll be able to say you were right if we go down, eh?We are 7 points from potential safety via the playoffs, with 13 games to go. Eminently doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Soctty said: Who held us up as a bastion of managerial stability? I pointed out the obvious, that we need managerial stability. With the usual balloons demanding we keep sacking managers, we'll never be bastions of any sort of stability. But at least you'll be able to say you were right if we go down, eh? We are 7 points from potential safety via the playoffs, with 13 games to go. Eminently doable. Totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Soctty said: Who held us up as a bastion of managerial stability? I pointed out the obvious, that we need managerial stability. With the usual balloons demanding we keep sacking managers, we'll never be bastions of any sort of stability. But at least you'll be able to say you were right if we go down, eh? We are 7 points from potential safety via the playoffs, with 13 games to go. Eminently doable. Who are these "balloons" and nice that anyone who disagrees with you is going to gloat. Must be great being you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Who held us up as a bastion of managerial stability? I pointed out the obvious, that we need managerial stability. With the usual balloons demanding we keep sacking managers, we'll never be bastions of any sort of stability. But at least you'll be able to say you were right if we go down, eh? We are 7 points from potential safety via the playoffs, with 13 games to go. Eminently doable. Why is it obvious we need managerial stability? It's obvious we need the right manager. The current manager has been here almost months. Six months of working on the training field day in day out with these players. Results and performances have got worse. The gap between us and 8th has got bigger and bigger. Six months into his tenure and there's still no game plan, there's no discernible identity, there's no settled system, no settled team. It's quite clear he isn't the right manager. Despite this, your point seems to be that we should stick with the manager regardless if he's doing a good job or not. Just because.... stability!!! This is absolutely bizarre reasoning. Did you say the same things when Ian Murray was under pressure last season? If not, why not? Incidentally, do you know of any managers who have won 2 league games in their first 6 months at a club and gone on to be a success at that club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Why is it obvious we need managerial stability? It's obvious we need the right manager. The current manager has been here almost months. Six months of working on the training field day in day out with these players. Results and performances have got worse. The gap between us and 8th has got bigger and bigger. Six months into his tenure and there's still no game plan, there's no discernible identity, there's no settled system, no settled team. It's quite clear he isn't the right manager. Despite this, your point seems to be that we should stick with the manager regardless if he's doing a good job or not. Just because.... stability!!! This is absolutely bizarre reasoning. Did you say the same things when Ian Murray was under pressure last season? If not, why not? Why do we need managerial stability? To save us the money in paying off managers & players every 6 months, releasing that budget to enable us a bigger playing budget.It's kinda pointless arguing with someone whose idea of good strategy is to keep sacking managers til we magically come across one who works miracles. You need to come into the real world.Stability is needed so that we can have a plan going forward, rather than just lurching from one sacking to the next, turning over 15 players every year, losing money constantly by not having the patience to allow people time.For information purposes, having the same guy in charge for 6 months doesn't represent stability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Why do we need managerial stability? To save us the money in paying off managers & players every 6 months, releasing that budget to enable us a bigger playing budget. It's kinda pointless arguing with someone whose idea of good strategy is to keep sacking managers til we magically come across one who works miracles. You need to come into the real world. Stability is needed so that we can have a plan going forward, rather than just lurching from one sacking to the next, turning over 15 players every year, losing money constantly by not having the patience to allow people time. For information purposes, having the same guy in charge for 6 months doesn't represent stability... Getting relegated to the third tier will cost us more than sacking almost any number of managers. Is keeping us in the second tier working a miracle? Am I expecting too much in simply wanting a manager who was appointed in early October to keep us in this league? Noticed you avoided both of my previous questions, I guess I know why. This idea of stability = good has always been quite a strange one to me. It seems to be peddled mainly by the managerial union who are quite vocal in the media, and as a result has permeated into the minds of a lot of fans. The reality is there are clubs all over the place who chop and change their manager regularly and are hugely successful. Equally there are clubs who enjoy long periods of stability and consistently fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Getting relegated to the third tier will cost us more than sacking almost any number of managers. Is keeping us in the second tier working a miracle? Am I expecting too much in simply wanting a manager who was appointed in early October to keep us in this league? Noticed you avoided both of my previous questions, I guess I know why. This idea of stability = good has always been quite a strange one to me. It seems to be peddled mainly by the managerial union who are quite vocal in the media, and as a result has permeated into the minds of a lot of fans. The reality is there are clubs all over the place who chop and change their manager regularly and are hugely successful. Equally there are clubs who enjoy long periods of stability and consistently fail. When someone doesn't understand the benefit of managerial stability, it's difficult to continue a sensible debate.An example of a successful club which changes managers at a rate of one every 6 months would be most useful, otherwise I'm calling bullshit on your bizarre theory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Managerial stability v Rewarding Incompetence? discuss..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 When someone doesn't understand the benefit of managerial stability, it's difficult to continue a sensible debate.An example of a successful club which changes managers at a rate of one every 6 months would be most useful, otherwise I'm calling bullshit on your bizarre theory... I could give you several. How about Watford, since 14/15. 4 managers they had in that season, along with a budget a lot lower than several of their competitors. Still got promoted to the EPL in second place. Then they went and sacked the manager who got them promoted, appointed another one, and he kept them up in the EPL for the first time in their history. They then sacked him and their new manager looks on course to keep them up again. They're enjoying their most successful period as a club for a generation, and it's nothing to do with managerial stability. Since I've gave you an example. Give me an example of a manager who's won 2 of their first 15 league games in charge (as Ross has) and gone on to be a success with that club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 26 minutes ago, TopCat said: I could give you several. How about Watford, since 14/15. 4 managers they had in that season, along with a budget a lot lower than several of their competitors. Still got promoted to the EPL in second place. Then they went and sacked the manager who got them promoted, appointed another one, and he kept them up in the EPL for the first time in their history. They then sacked him and their new manager looks on course to keep them up again. They're enjoying their most successful period as a club for a generation, and it's nothing to do with managerial stability. That COULD be argued as perfectly solid justification for NOT firing managers, and NOT taking the financial hit entailed each time.. The players were good enough to do the job, unencumbered by a pointless bloke (or blokess) in so-called "charge". Just sayin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I could give you several. How about Watford, since 14/15. 4 managers they had in that season, along with a budget a lot lower than several of their competitors. Still got promoted to the EPL in second place. Then they went and sacked the manager who got them promoted, appointed another one, and he kept them up in the EPL for the first time in their history. They then sacked him and their new manager looks on course to keep them up again. They're enjoying their most successful period as a club for a generation, and it's nothing to do with managerial stability. Since I've gave you an example. Give me an example of a manager who's won 2 of their first 15 league games in charge (as Ross has) and gone on to be a success with that club. An anomaly, with one manager resigning when they were 2nd in the league, and another leaving for health reasons when they were still flying in the league a month later. Their 3rd manager was in place for a week I believe. A situation worlds away from ours, as I'm sure you know.Leeds are the best example from English football of that kind of behaviour, which led to all sorts of struggles for them I think you'll agree.Continuity is important in management, in almost every case, and by that I mean giving a manager at least a full season in charge to show what he can do, with the time to prepare the squad and plan the way he's going to play rather than be thrown into a struggling team, which we have done to several managers in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 An anomaly, with one manager resigning when they were 2nd in the league, and another leaving for health reasons when they were still flying in the league a month later. Their 3rd manager was in place for a week I believe. A situation worlds away from ours, as I'm sure you know.Leeds are the best example from English football of that kind of behaviour, which led to all sorts of struggles for them I think you'll agree.Continuity is important in management, in almost every case, and by that I mean giving a manager at least a full season in charge to show what he can do, with the time to prepare the squad and plan the way he's going to play rather than be thrown into a struggling team, which we have done to several managers in recent years. A perfectly valid example = an anomaly [emoji28]What about the example I asked for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 A perfectly valid example = an anomaly [emoji28]What about the example I asked for? It's not a perfectly valid example, for the reasons clearly stated. Should I break it down into small parts for you to understand?I don't have an example, but then I'm not desperate to sack yet another manager with some crackpot idea that changing the man in charge constantly will somehow bring us success... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 1:16 PM, Soctty said: Time is important for any manager, especially one taking over a club that has been plummeting in recent years, changing managers every few months. Hopefully there are more sensible people on the board than on the forum... That could have been said about the previous manager. Because we've been sh!te long before he came in is not a reason for keeping him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I see our manager is watching the Celtic game. My opinion is he should be watching the Dumbarton v Aye game since what we do against them is far more important than what we do against Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, renfrew said: I see our manager is watching the Celtic game. My opinion is he should be watching the Dumbarton v Aye game since what we do against them is far more important than what we do against Celtic. I think he's seen Ayr lots already this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think he's seen Ayr lots already this season. I know where your coming from but I still think he would have been better at there game today instead of Parkhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, renfrew said: I know where your coming from but I still think he would have been better at there game today instead of Parkhead. Perhaps he took in the Ayr Cup game in midweek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 43 minutes ago, renfrew said: I see our manager is watching the Celtic game. My opinion is he should be watching the Dumbarton v Aye game since what we do against them is far more important than what we do against Celtic. No doubt someone else on the staff is at Dumbarton watching Ayr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Can't say I'm bothered if he's watching Celtic, or watching Ayr. I'm more concerned about what he does at Ralston all week with our own players. Edit: who do we have watching TNS coach journey? Edited February 18, 2017 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I've posted a Buddie at Southwaite services to ask them to go homeward and think again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, renfrew said: I know where your coming from but I still think he would have been better at there game today instead of Parkhead. We will beat Ayr next week putting us 1 point behind them. I'm glad he is at Parkhead doing the home work how to get us into the semi. What a high to the end of season this will be when we win the play offs. Bloody hell TopCat will be calling for JR to have an extension to his contact. Edited February 18, 2017 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: We will beat Ayr next week putting us 1 point behind them. I'm glad he is at Parkhead doing the home work how to get us into the semi. What a high to the end of season this will be when we win the play offs. Bloody hell TopCat will be calling for JR to have an extension to his contact. One point behind them, great to see you're optimistic but we don't get 6 points for a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svard svard Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kendo said: One point behind them, great to see you're optimistic but we don't get 6 points for a win. Spoke too soon.. Thanks to a leaky Dumbarton deeefence.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinness Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Now 8 points behnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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