Sunderland Speak To Jack Ross

[Hambud]

For euphoria JR would be equal to Tom Hendrie. The difference being JR had the brains to not hang around for impending relegation battle.

Fair comment.

There is a case for arguing that Clunie achieved more than Fergie and as such, is our best manager ever!

I just feel the euphoria created around the club as a whole was pretty special with the two I mention.

[Seaside Nipper]

13 hours ago, paisleysaint1973 said:

We can't compare Fergie and Ross different times and different era's. Game is totally different now 

Correct.

SAF was a complete force of nature,  a blunt instrument who galvanised all and was a great fit at his time with each club throughout the steps of his career. Also in his day, stepping out into the Community and enthusing, cajoling or just plain bullying the good patrons of Renfrewshire into believing. His Man management style of the day reaped its rewards, a style of the day that wouldn't be acceptable to the brave hearts sweet hearts in these times. SAF was granted time to do his job , especially at Man Utd.  even though he was perilously close to the bullet, yet the rest is history never to be repeated.

JR, very similar early rise through the ranks but stalled, I think as much due to the increased expectations from the likes of Sunderland and fans in general today and also his own decision in jumping an extra rung of the ladder when he genuinely wasn't ready. Sunderland job ( cannot blame him for taking it ) was not beyond him given time, but time today is not afforded anyone. JR's failure was in not getting promoted last season. Indeed who knows what could have happened of he hadn't lost the play off. His stats are good at over 50% win ratio, but not good enough for Sunderland expectations, rightly or wrongly.

Yup, changed days indeed.

 

 

[Bud the Baker]

14 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

From memory any time Jack Ross' team met Premiership opposition in the cups we were soundly horsed (Celtic 4 - St Mirren 1;  St Mirren 1 - Dundee 3 (friendly);  Partick Thistle 5 - St Mirren 0;  Aberdeen 4 - St Mirren 1). We conceded an average of 4 goals a game against Premier opposition whenever Jack was St Mirren manager. There were few signs that Jack Ross would have had us competitive in the Premiership had he stayed on..

I think JR realized we couldn't go toe-to-toe with clubs in the top division and planned a complete revamp in personnel & style in the close season between the 2017 & 2018 - how successful he would have been is anyone's guess.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Bud the Baker

[Dibbles old paperboy]

8 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Point being that Dundee were in a higher league, and the likes of Barnsley, Ipswich and Sunderland were all at a higher level than ourselves which would offer pay rises on what we could offer. You don’t know how many times he might have been approached from others and rejected it. It’s not like he was looking to move to Morton, QOTS or Grimsby Town, he was linked with better clubs and it would have been no different whoever was in charge.

JR specifically noted Ross Stewart as a potential based signing. The plan was always to try and develop him, and by the looks of it he was spot on here - unfortunately Stubbs was shite and offloaded him.

Can you explain to us how:

A team languishing in the Championship relegation zone could convince Naismith not to join an SPL club?

A team languishing in the Championship relegation zone was meant to convince McAllister not to make a move to a club like Derby County?

How were we to convince Mallan to stay here  in Scotland’s second tier instead of moving to England’s second tier, knowing in one year he’d be gone for free and the opportunity to cash in had gone?

Literally what the hell were we meant to do with Morgan? He was never going to sign a new contract, especially when he knew Celtic were keen. Six months down the line we’d have lost him for free. We actually got the full contract out of him with his return on loan - cash and loan was outstanding business.

Again, do you think these were all solely Jack’s decisions? Do you not think the board would have had some say? I’m sure I remember Tony banging on about how Lewis is ours for the season and then free to go elsewhere.

I was waiting for a comment like this, thanks 😂

My point is Jack Ross did not turn down jobs he was offered by Dundee, Ipswich, Barnsley (none of them got as far as offering their job to him) and Jack wanted away and was applying for vacant jobs down south without his employers' knowledge and while he was still speaking to the press about his plans to make St Mirren attack-minded and competitive in the premiership. 

I've always had a pragmatic view on Jack Ross - for the squad he had at his disposal the results were awful until the cheque book came out, and I think he was allowed to blow a huge amount of money and break the budget to achieve what he did. Should a team with Shankland, Morgan, McAllister, Magennis, Mallan, MacKenzie ever have been in danger of relegation from the Championship... that's like Stubbs failing to reach the play off final twice with  a Hibs team which included McGregor, Allan, McGeoch, McGinn, Cummings and Stokes!! The upside was we had 2 very exciting seasons and 1 season which was very successful. The first time Jack applied for another job and was then offered it he was offski (SMTID or not).

 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

3 hours ago, insaintee said:

You missed out a win over dundee in the cup

Of course he did, It didn't suit his argument.

He also talked about Fergie leaving behind a great team. Aye, which he then set about hovering up to Aberdeen.

[DougJamie]

Jack, had high stock, he cashed in. Its what you do when you are a club with limited budget and ambitions. Sunderland on the face of it is a sleeping giant, but its not. Its just a very badly run club with a large support

[Lord Pityme]

Got a laugh at the ' Ross was out of his depth at Sunderland' posts.. given only Klopp and Guardiola had a better win rate than him in the top 4 English leagues.
I guess Sunderland fans will be wondering whether its Pep or Jurgen who will be com6in lol

[DougJamie]

1 minute ago, Lord Pityme said:

Got a laugh at the ' Ross was out of his depth at Sunderland' posts.. given only Klopp and Guardiola had a better win rate than him in the top 4 English leagues.
I guess Sunderland fans will be wondering whether its Pep or Jurgen who will be com6in lol

True

Delusional . Won the FA Cup in 1973. Feck Morton have more trophies

 

[Cornwall_Saint]

2 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

My point is Jack Ross did not turn down jobs he was offered by Dundee, Ipswich, Barnsley (none of them got as far as offering their job to him) and Jack wanted away and was applying for vacant jobs down south without his employers' knowledge and while he was still speaking to the press about his plans to make St Mirren attack-minded and competitive in the premiership. 

I've always had a pragmatic view on Jack Ross - for the squad he had at his disposal the results were awful until the cheque book came out, and I think he was allowed to blow a huge amount of money and break the budget to achieve what he did. Should a team with Shankland, Morgan, McAllister, Magennis, Mallan, MacKenzie ever have been in danger of relegation from the Championship... that's like Stubbs failing to reach the play off final twice with  a Hibs team which included McGregor, Allan, McGeoch, McGinn, Cummings and Stokes!! The upside was we had 2 very exciting seasons and 1 season which was very successful. The first time Jack applied for another job and was then offered it he was offski (SMTID or not).

 

Do you tell your employer about every job you apply to?

The blame should lie at Sunderland for failing to inform the club, not JR. Sunderland were the ones offering terms.

As for the squad, Alex Rae had that same squad bottom of the league. As I’ve already said, Shankland was shite (0 goals in 17) and was replaced by Loy who hit 5 in 13. Half of the other names were still developing, McAllister was barely 18, Magennis was still developing, Morgan as we seen massively improved with JR’s help, and we also seen an improvement to the likes of players such as Cammy. I repeat, Rae had that supposedly great team dead bottom. We weren’t as good as you seem to think.

Anyway, name me a manager who would have declined Sunderland’s offer to stay with us?

1 hour ago, Long John Baldy said:

Were they really the only two?

Not so sure as all the teams above Sunderland won more games last season?

So did the top 4 teams in the English championship?

I think LPM meant to say the lowest defeat tally (7), behind Man City (6) and Liverpool (1).

[Dibbles old paperboy]

20 minutes ago, Long John Baldy said:

Were they really the only two?

Not so sure as all the teams above Sunderland won more games last season?

So did the top 4 teams in the English championship?

 

 

I think the stat was that only 2 teams had LOST less games than Sunderland under JR. Plenty of other teams had more wins and it was the amount of draws rather than defeats which cost Sunderland promotion.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

23 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Do you tell your employer about every job you apply to?

The blame should lie at Sunderland for failing to inform the club, not JR. Sunderland were the ones offering terms.

As for the squad, Alex Rae had that same squad bottom of the league. As I’ve already said, Shankland was shite (0 goals in 17) and was replaced by Loy who hit 5 in 13. Half of the other names were still developing, McAllister was barely 18, Magennis was still developing, Morgan as we seen massively improved with JR’s help, and we also seen an improvement to the likes of players such as Cammy. I repeat, Rae had that supposedly great team dead bottom. We weren’t as good as you seem to think.

Anyway, name me a manager who would have declined Sunderland’s offer to stay with us?

I think LPM meant to say the lowest defeat tally (7), behind Man City (6) and Liverpool (1).

Jack Ross had an interview at Sunderland when he was down south to talk to Ipswich (with the club's permission) but he didn't mention to the club he had applied to Sunderland and been given an interview and had the interview and was about to be announced as their next manager.

Rae didn't have us dead bottom - when we fell to 2nd bottom after 4 league games he was sacked. Does Jim Goodwin have us dead bottom currently and is his squad not good enough to stay up - we've almost played the first round of games so he has had more games to prove himself to GLS than Rae had.

The narrative that bad old Sunderland broke the rules and poached a reluctant Jack Ross away from St Mirren is a false one. Jack was 'on his way', had no intention of managing us in the premiership and applied for the job himself at the same time as saying publicly he would be St Mirren manager for at least another season.

[oaksoft]

39 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Do you tell your employer about every job you apply to?

 

Agreed. The outrage about this is pretty embarrassing. Almost as embarrassing as the rank hypocrisy.

There's not one of us stupid enough to show loyalty to any employer when an opportunity to quadruple our salary is up for grabs and ESPECIALLY when you are in an industry prone to knee-jerk sackings of manager as soon as a couple of results go the wrong way.

Regardless, there has to be a hole in the life of anyone who celebrates someone losing their job.

[munoz]

24 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Agreed. The outrage about this is pretty embarrassing. Almost as embarrassing as the rank hypocrisy.

There's not one of us stupid enough to show loyalty to any employer when an opportunity to quadruple our salary is up for grabs and ESPECIALLY when you are in an industry prone to knee-jerk sackings of manager as soon as a couple of results go the wrong way.

Regardless, there has to be a hole in the life of anyone who celebrates someone losing their job.

Maybe the Sunderland fans will do something similar to this.... then again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49999654

[Cornwall_Saint]

33 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Jack Ross had an interview at Sunderland when he was down south to talk to Ipswich (with the club's permission) but he didn't mention to the club he had applied to Sunderland and been given an interview and had the interview and was about to be announced as their next manager.

Rae didn't have us dead bottom - when we fell to 2nd bottom after 4 league games he was sacked. Does Jim Goodwin have us dead bottom currently and is his squad not good enough to stay up - we've almost played the first round of games so he has had more games to prove himself to GLS than Rae had.

The narrative that bad old Sunderland broke the rules and poached a reluctant Jack Ross away from St Mirren is a false one. Jack was 'on his way', had no intention of managing us in the premiership and applied for the job himself at the same time as saying publicly he would be St Mirren manager for at least another season.

I’ve changed job recently and didn’t tell either of my two employers about my new move until I got the job and put my notice in - does that make me a traitor/snake/whatever the hell else JR gets called?

There’s no point comparing Rae and Goodwin. Rae had a big team in a lower league, Goodwin has a small team in a big league. It would be more accurate to compare Goodwin and Stubbs.

No one is claiming Jack was “reluctant” to move. Yes he said he’d stay with us, but when an offer like the one Sunderland produced came along, what was he supposed to say? “Sorry guys, I said I’d do another year at St Mirren. I’d rather risk my whole reputation in a relegation dogfight where no big club will want me afterwards.”

He had every intention of managing us in the Prem until the better offer was on the table in front of him. It’s football ffs. You can guarantee any manager at a lower club who is doing well will be applying to these positions as well. 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

40 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I’ve changed job recently and didn’t tell either of my two employers about my new move until I got the job and put my notice in - does that make me a traitor/snake/whatever the hell else JR gets called?

There’s no point comparing Rae and Goodwin. Rae had a big team in a lower league, Goodwin has a small team in a big league. It would be more accurate to compare Goodwin and Stubbs.

No one is claiming Jack was “reluctant” to move. Yes he said he’d stay with us, but when an offer like the one Sunderland produced came along, what was he supposed to say? “Sorry guys, I said I’d do another year at St Mirren. I’d rather risk my whole reputation in a relegation dogfight where no big club will want me afterwards.”

He had every intention of managing us in the Prem until the better offer was on the table in front of him. It’s football ffs. You can guarantee any manager at a lower club who is doing well will be applying to these positions as well. 

I've never said I agree with anyone calling JR a traitor or snake. I have said your narrative of Sunderland poaching Jack Ross is false. Why would Jack Ross ask for permission to speak to Ipswich and Barnsley and go to those interviews with the club's knowledge and blessing but not mention anything about Sunderland until he had pretty much signed on the dotted line?

You were the one who introduced Rae to the discussion.

If you are applying for lots of vacancies during the close season, its probably a sign you don't have any intention of remaining as St Mirren manager unless its a fall back Plan B option.

[Lord Pityme]

Were they really the only two?
Not so sure as all the teams above Sunderland won more games last season?
So did the top 4 teams in the English championship?
 
 

Optastats

[Lord Pityme]

I think LPM meant to say the lowest defeat tally (7), behind Man City (6) and Liverpool (1).

No only beaten in the English top four leagues by Klopp and Guardiola.

[Lord Pityme]

I think the stat was that only 2 teams had LOST less games than Sunderland under JR. Plenty of other teams had more wins and it was the amount of draws rather than defeats which cost Sunderland promotion.

No... only two managers had more wins during Ross's tenure optafacts.

[Lord Pityme]

Of current teams within the top four tiers of English league football, only Liverpool (1) and Manchester City (6) have lost fewer league games (excl. playoffs) than Sunderland (7) since Jack Ross was appointed ahead of 2018-19. Dismissed.

[paisleysaint1973]

This thread is now totally irrelevant Ross moved to what he thought was bigger and better earned more money( fair play as anyone on here that states they wouldnt take a pay rise with another employer takes out the a hole) anyone on here that has moved employer simply cant say they told their current employer in advance unless under the threat of redundancy to which you are allowed to look elsewhere. I simply cant see the on going  fascination of what Ross does or doesnt do and what he did or didnt do all mooted points now we have a manager and a team that need our backing 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

2 hours ago, paisleysaint1973 said:

This thread is now totally irrelevant Ross moved to what he thought was bigger and better earned more money( fair play as anyone on here that states they wouldnt take a pay rise with another employer takes out the a hole) anyone on here that has moved employer simply cant say they told their current employer in advance unless under the threat of redundancy to which you are allowed to look elsewhere. I simply cant see the on going  fascination of what Ross does or doesnt do and what he did or didnt do all mooted points now we have a manager and a team that need our backing 

For me his tenure was exciting, full of drama in the early day's then it was click. As an old song goes Ain't No Stoppin us now. Goody is the manager has my 100% backing might take time but he will come good. 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

3 hours ago, paisleysaint1973 said:

This thread is now totally irrelevant Ross moved to what he thought was bigger and better earned more money( fair play as anyone on here that states they wouldnt take a pay rise with another employer takes out the a hole) anyone on here that has moved employer simply cant say they told their current employer in advance unless under the threat of redundancy to which you are allowed to look elsewhere. I simply cant see the on going  fascination of what Ross does or doesnt do and what he did or didnt do all mooted points now we have a manager and a team that need our backing 

I was head-hunted for my current job and took a small pay-cut to take it (working on an issue close to my heart in a place close to my heart!) and have been in that same job for over 13 years. I had been on a 5 year contract in my previous job and was four and a half years into that when I was approached, and told my employer I had been approached about another job and went to the interview with their blessing and I worked 4 months notice so there was plenty of time to sell my flat, move and do a hand over at my previous work.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

12 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I was head-hunted for my current job and took a small pay-cut to take it (working on an issue close to my heart in a place close to my heart!) and have been in that same job for over 13 years. I had been on a 5 year contract in my previous job and was four and a half years into that when I was approached, and told my employer I had been approached about another job and went to the interview with their blessing and I worked 4 months notice so there was plenty of time to sell my flat, move and do a hand over at my previous work.

Did you ever know that you're my hero....and everything I would like to be?

[pod]

14 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I was head-hunted for my current job and took a small pay-cut to take it (working on an issue close to my heart in a place close to my heart!) and have been in that same job for over 13 years. I had been on a 5 year contract in my previous job and was four and a half years into that when I was approached, and told my employer I had been approached about another job and went to the interview with their blessing and I worked 4 months notice so there was plenty of time to sell my flat, move and do a hand over at my previous work.

Must have made their job easier. 

 

That doesn't happen very often in the football world. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by pod

[lenziebud]

On 10/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, Dibbles old paperboy said:

My point is Jack Ross did not turn down jobs he was offered by Dundee, Ipswich, Barnsley (none of them got as far as offering their job to him) and Jack wanted away and was applying for vacant jobs down south without his employers' knowledge and while he was still speaking to the press about his plans to make St Mirren attack-minded and competitive in the premiership. 

I've always had a pragmatic view on Jack Ross - for the squad he had at his disposal the results were awful until the cheque book came out, and I think he was allowed to blow a huge amount of money and break the budget to achieve what he did. Should a team with Shankland, Morgan, McAllister, Magennis, Mallan, MacKenzie ever have been in danger of relegation from the Championship... that's like Stubbs failing to reach the play off final twice with  a Hibs team which included McGregor, Allan, McGeoch, McGinn, Cummings and Stokes!! The upside was we had 2 very exciting seasons and 1 season which was very successful. The first time Jack applied for another job and was then offered it he was offski (SMTID or not).

 

I'm kinda wondering what you expected him to say ?