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Accounts to the Year Ended May 2018

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22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Seriously?

That is a ridiculously small salary for an entire board of directors to take for running a multi million pound business.

I cant believe this is even being raised.

 

Yip, one of the more bizarre posts on a thread surprisingly full of knicker-wetting.

Note to club: don't release accounts during an international break.

My two cents: 

GLS seems like a pretty astute bloke.  I’ve no doubt that somewhere in St Mirren towers there will be a series of projections running at least three years forward.

These will include various ‘what if’ scenarios. Perhaps not Tony’s Champions League one, but I’ve absolutely no doubt Championship Football for 2019/20 will be full covered.

Every single bit of speculative income will have been removed from that scenario, and I’m sure it’ll still show us ‘making a small profit’ in the accounts released two years from now.

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12 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

Yip, one of the more bizarre posts on a thread surprisingly full of knicker-wetting.

Note to club: don't release accounts during an international break.

My two cents: 

GLS seems like a pretty astute bloke.  I’ve no doubt that somewhere in St Mirren towers there will be a series of projections running at least three years forward.

These will include various ‘what if’ scenarios. Perhaps not Tony’s Champions League one, but I’ve absolutely no doubt Championship Football for 2019/20 will be full covered.

Every single bit of speculative income will have been removed from that scenario, and I’m sure it’ll still show us ‘making a small profit’ in the accounts released two years from now.

Agree with this, as much as I appreciate people being a bit wary at the increases in outgoings, it has to go hand in hand with big increases in income and a healthy profit. 

Clubs like SMFC won't have the luxury of saving big money every year and to turnover two decent profits is really good (especially considering some of our peers) 

All well and good saying the expense is high but we got the reward in securing promotion. 

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Spoiler

Does the following clarify anything?

(from twitter)

 

Chris McLaughlinVerified account @BBCchrismclaug 6h6 hours ago

New SPFL broadcast deal (Sky/BBC/Premier Sports) worth around £160 million in total. Sky deal estimated at around £26 million a year. BT offer described to me as ‘woeful’ and ‘derisory’. Combined deal up around 20% on last contract.

 

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Personally i get where we are. With the new 160m SKY deal we must be at top table so i do expect some serious player investment. After off loading what is not nailed down
What you mean the new deal thats £3.5 million a year less than the last one?
Not according to this ....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46264665
 
Yeah that looks like the one where previously Sky were paying £20m a season, and BT £17.5m. Now its just the Sky deal!
£160m is £32m a year
£20m + £17.5m is £37.5m
A difference of........... wait for it £5.5m

Someone is £2m out using simple arithmetic and questioning the handling of the finances of the club.

Not to mention that some of the figures he's quoting are made up.

Give it up LPM. You've just made a complete clown of yourself. 🤡

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I'm not concerned by these figures. We spent money that came in, to achieve an aim of promotion. Would we rather we had all the cash in the bank but were in a lower division? From a normal business perspective it might be a more prudent approach, but it would've almost certainly led to us still being in the Championship, which would likely have led to that cash surplus being either swallowed up by attempts to put a title challenge together the following season with stronger competition, or frittered away as we scrimped and tried to fluke our way to success without backing the manager properly, with championship level income coming in.

The vast majority of players we have are on 1 or 2 year contracts. I'd be very surprised if most of these don't have relegation clauses stipulating a reduction in salary in the event of a worst case scenario - it would be negligible for a club in our position not to put those kinds of safeguards in there. 

Fast forward to this year, and we have the McGinn money, around a million quid. For all the pay off of Stubbs and Jackson, these shouldn't have made any real dent in that money. Players out since the change of manager have been loans being sent back, so again little effect. I'd imagine we will dig into that fund in January to give us a fighting chance of staying up, but when you add the increased prize money and gate money we'll get this season, we shouldn't be in any bother financially. It's lack of points due to poor recruitment which has us in trouble.

Regarding the number of staff at the club, these accounts show a staff total of 77, up from 62. By comparison - and for no particular reason other than that there most recent accounts are available - Dunfermline had a total staff of 82 last season, down from 87 the year before. These are just numbers, without knowing the number of full time/part time staff included, in admin staff especially. I'd be surprised if our playing staff continues to rise as it did from 2017 to 2018.  

Going forward, we have to face facts. Magennis will be the next saleable asset if we don't stay up, with Erhahon looking like the next on the conveyor belt. This is how it is for a club of our size. If we consolidate, we can keep our best players for another year, if we go down they will be off - at least Kyle is under a decent length contract and we're not hoping for a compensation amount this time.

Sometimes fans get too bogged down in the figures, terrified of financial disaster. I can't see any real danger on the horizon. We have no bank debt, and working capital of over £300k as opposed to a net liability which we had the season before - and that's before the McGinn money is taken account of or the increased TV and commercial revenue of this season. Life's too short to worry unduly. As long as we're managed properly from the top, we'll be absolutely fine. I've every confidence in those at the top.

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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Seriously?

That is a ridiculously small salary for an entire board of directors to take for running a multi million pound business.

I cant believe this is even being raised.

 

St Mirren directors should be getting paid a total of £0

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Must say I'm very surprised how many people seem to think we are going to keep selling players like McAllister, Morgan, McGinn and Mallan. In case nobody has noticed we don't have any players like that left, other than possibly Kyle.

The point about adding additional revenue streams to the club is a valid one, there has been much talk about this and nothing done.

I honestly thought having brought in more transfer fees in the last couple of years than we had in the previous 25 years combined we would be building a decent nest egg.

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6 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Must say I'm very surprised how many people seem to think we are going to keep selling players like McAllister, Morgan, McGinn and Mallan. In case nobody has noticed we don't have any players like that left, other than possibly Kyle.

The point about adding additional revenue streams to the club is a valid one, there has been much talk about this and nothing done.

I honestly thought having brought in more transfer fees in the last couple of years than we had in the previous 25 years combined we would be building a decent nest egg.

There's no guarantee that we will keep on bringing young players through from a young age and selling them on. That I agree with.  We have a couple meanwhile who might  well though in Magennis and Erahon.  It's more likely that we might mix this in with Motherwell approach which brings in potentially good players who showcase themselves and mov  on for a fee.  Again,  no guarantees. 

Revenue from other sources includes Sponsorship.  This is higher.  Naming rights for supporters.. E. G. Steps within the stadium etc.  Big ticket items like income from increased property rental and catering need investment before it can be realised. 

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42 minutes ago, Kemp said:

St Mirren directors should be getting paid a total of £0

Strange point to make. Surely an Executive Director would expect to be paid,  even if the non executive directors are not. 

Nor are shareholders taking a dividend.

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17 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The only concern for me is whether we took the gamble on players wages before we knew for certain that the Morgan/Mallan money was coming in. If we did then it should be worrying the crap out of everyone.

I think we'll be OK this year thanks to McGinn.

Next year we'll get a nice payment from Europe hopefully so that should be OK too.

The question is what do we do in 3 years when we don't have enough coming in to pay the bills.

We can't be spending this amount of money at that point.

We will be playing in the Champions League by then Tony said we`ll have loads of cash :whistle

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My concern is , should we get relegated , which is very possible , we,ll have a manager , an assistant manager , a commercial manager , a  chief executive , a coach , a goalkeeper coach , a reserve team / under 20,s manager , maybe Jimmy Nicholl , Gus McPherson , Junior Mendes, and probably a couple of guys I,be forgot to mention , but that's a few big wages for a team with a core fan base of 3,000 . 

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2 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

My concern is , should we get relegated , which is very possible , we,ll have a manager , an assistant manager , a commercial manager , a  chief executive , a coach , a goalkeeper coach , a reserve team / under 20,s manager , maybe Jimmy Nicholl , Gus McPherson , Junior Mendes, and probably a couple of guys I,be forgot to mention , but that's a few big wages for a team with a core fan base of 3,000 . 

If we can't afford them next year, we won't have them.

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8 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

And in next years accounts... signing on fee for Stubbs, plus higher wages than Ross.

Compensation paid for Rice,

Heaton's fee,

more wages for Gus, Nicholl and community manager.

compensation for Stubbs, Jackson.

increase in all players wages in line with contract clauses following promotion

significant increase in playing staff numbers

increase in costs across the board commensurate with playing in premiership 

compensation for Oran

additional funds made available to Oran

poor cup game receipts 

cost of plastic pitch

possible costs if one or more corners developed

subsequent drop in income due to poor form

potential relegation

Maybe we should have just stayed in the Championship after all  :zipit

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33 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Strange point to make. Surely an Executive Director would expect to be paid,  even if the non executive directors are not. 

Nor are shareholders taking a dividend.

Unless we are including Tony's salary as General Manager (in no way is he a "CEO") then of course they shouldn't be taking money out of the club. The rest of them claim to be lifelong St Mirren fans acting as custodians of the club.

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41 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Unless we are including Tony's salary as General Manager (in no way is he a "CEO") then of course they shouldn't be taking money out of the club. The rest of them claim to be lifelong St Mirren fans acting as custodians of the club.

My feeling is that this is what the money is for as he is in an Executive Director Role. 

Let's not confuse being a fan with being a shareholder. 

There's no rule which says that shareholders who are fans can't receive a return. 

However... Looks like the folks involved are following the route you suggest. 

Good on them. 

Few of us would put ourselves forward to do it.... Other than as a Fan's buy out of course. 

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Did Tony Fitzpatrick not claim that it was more like £400k we got for the sale of Kyle McAllister rather than the £200k the accounts show? Unless he was counting £200k of add-ons which look unlikely to be achieved after he was injured for almost 12 months as soon as he signed!

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2 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Did Tony Fitzpatrick not claim that it was more like £400k we got for the sale of Kyle McAllister rather than the £200k the accounts show? Unless he was counting £200k of add-ons which look unlikely to be achieved after he was injured for almost 12 months as soon as he signed!

Isn't Tony a liability? 

No denying his credibility as a former player, although never nothing much else outside the club, but, what else does he bring for the cash we pay him? 

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