Doakes Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 SNP need to stop playing the victim at every opportunity , most Scots ain't daft, can see right through them Should concentrate on their performance in government rather than greeting about not being invited to a debate that they knew they wouldn't be invited to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Doakes said: SNP need to stop playing the victim at every opportunity , most Scots ain't daft, can see right through them Should concentrate on their performance in government rather than greeting about not being invited to a debate that they knew they wouldn't be invited to Got to be honest, I'm completely with you on this one. I am sick to death of negative people and their whining. It's a cultural illness in Scotland. The SNP have my vote for now but frankly I can't tolerate much more negativity from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Doakes said: SNP need to stop playing the victim at every opportunity , most Scots ain't daft, can see right through them Should concentrate on their performance in government rather than greeting about not being invited to a debate that they knew they wouldn't be invited to I'm not seeing right through them, they have more seats Than the Lib Dems and Scotland, for now, is part of the UK therefore they should be involved in any debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 59 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Personally, I don't see what's negative about pointing out that the party with the third largest number of seats at Westminster has not been invited, while a party with fewer seats has been. The SNP are not saying anything that, for example, Labour wouldn't say if it had been them that had been omitted from the discussion in favour of the LibDems. Let's face it, it's been done on the criteria of the three largest winners of seats in England. They can't even pretend that it's only "national" parties that have been invited as they three don't put up candidates in N.I. 37 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: I'm not seeing right through them, they have more seats Than the Lib Dems and Scotland, for now, is part of the UK therefore they should be involved in any debate. Hmmm. you have a point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: Personally, I don't see what's negative about pointing out that the party with the third largest number of seats at Westminster has not been invited, while a party with fewer seats has been. The SNP are not saying anything that, for example, Labour wouldn't say if it had been them that had been omitted from the discussion in favour of the LibDems. Let's face it, it's been done on the criteria of the three largest winners of seats in England. They can't even pretend that it's only "national" parties that have been invited as they three don't put up candidates in N.I. To be honest it's less about this specific issue and more a general comment. For example, if I hear another SNP politician whining about Scotland being "pulled out of the EU against its wishes" I am going to switch my vote. I am very much the type of person who likes to try and find the brass amongst the muck. I can't tolerate and actively avoid those who prefer to wallow in misery, shrieking pathetically about how much shit there is. Life is way too short for that. The nonsense about Indyref2 is going the same way. Yes lost. Sturgeon needs to accept this, respect it, stop wittering on about asking for Indyref2 next year and start demonstrating that the polls have demonstrably changed since 2014. Start building the case again. Then come back when the polls hit 60% Yes for 6 months or so. No voters surely deserve at least one year of peace and quiet. Edited November 7, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: Personally, I don't see what's negative about pointing out that the party with the third largest number of seats at Westminster has not been invited, while a party with fewer seats has been. The SNP are not saying anything that, for example, Labour wouldn't say if it had been them that had been omitted from the discussion in favour of the LibDems. Let's face it, it's been done on the criteria of the three largest winners of seats in England. They can't even pretend that it's only "national" parties that have been invited as they three don't put up candidates in N.I. Personally think the format of debate is all wrong in general, they've invited the 3 parties that they want to do well - to maintain the status quo and attempt to protect the union. We need more long form, podcast style discussions with leaders to really unpack what they plan to bring to the table, and most importantly, find out what their values are as a person. A recent example - I listened to Bernie Sanders on Joe Rogan's podcast, and the guy actually spoke a lot of sense. Their media would have you believe he's some kind of communist monster. In a standard 3 or 4 party "debate" format, there's no way you're going to unpack the level of detail that's required to base your decision. I'd have more respect for the SNP if their response was something like - "doesn't matter, we'll still win, we weren't expecting to be invited anyway" rather than turning it into yet another victim story. They might be the biggest victim party in UK politics. And that's coming from someone who'll most likely vote for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Bernie Sanders usually does speak sense. The problem with Americans is that they hear "socialist" and think "communist". None of their MSM is unbiased and mostly heavily right leaning. You'd have most respect for the SNP if they were arrogant? I'd have most respect for the SNP if they were honest. They were never going to be invited and they knew it, far too much BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 20 hours ago, Doakes said: SNP need to stop playing the victim at every opportunity , most Scots ain't daft, can see right through them Should concentrate on their performance in government rather than greeting about not being invited to a debate that they knew they wouldn't be invited to Yup, that's politics summed up in a nutshell. The lot of them ( all brands ) are utter hypocrites and play the completely disingenuous doublespeak at every turn. I just wish we could ignore the feckers. Media should just impose a reporting restriction on all forms of politics for a year. Starve the grasping collective clownery of any form of media and public exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I'd have most respect for the SNP if they were honest. They were never going to be invited and they knew it, far too much BSYou'd have more respect for them if they just shut up and accepted something they disagree with?Not the kind of politicians (of any persuasion) that I'd respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: Bernie Sanders usually does speak sense. The problem with Americans is that they hear "socialist" and think "communist". None of their MSM is unbiased and mostly heavily right leaning. You'd have most respect for the SNP if they were arrogant? If Bernie was given a fair crack of the whip he’d be President right now. He was convincingly ahead in all of the polls against Trump, but the DNC’s corrupt superdelegate nonsense meant he never stood a chance against that dirty bitch Hilary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, TPAFKATS said: You'd have more respect for them if they just shut up and accepted something they disagree with? Not the kind of politicians (of any persuasion) that I'd respect. There's a way to go about things. And the SNP generally make themselves out to be victims and blame the Tories for everything that is bad Meanwhile coming up with some batshit mental policies and centralising everything that they can get their hands on - yet claim to promote some form of socialism / "social democracy" Strathclyde Police - gone, centralised Police counters in Erskine, Ferguslie Park, Gourock, Linwood and Port Glasgow - gone, centralised Inverclyde, Renfrewshire, and East Renfrewshire Councils - stripped of financial responsibility, centralised Renfrewshire Enterprise - gone, centralised Strathclyde Fire & Rescue Service - gone, centralised I generally support independence, but their record in government? Questionable, at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 What happened with the Cooncils? There's a way to go about things. And the SNP generally make themselves out to be victims and blame the Tories for everything that is bad Meanwhile coming up with some batshit mental policies and centralising everything that they can get their hands on - yet claim to promote some form of socialism / "social democracy" Strathclyde Police - gone, centralised Police counters in Erskine, Ferguslie Park, Gourock, Linwood and Port Glasgow - gone, centralised Inverclyde, Renfrewshire, and East Renfrewshire Councils - stripped of financial responsibility, centralised Renfrewshire Enterprise - gone, centralised Strathclyde Fire & Rescue Service - gone, centralised I generally support independence, but their record in government? Questionable, at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Saintss Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Mike Russell still trying to rig any future Scexit referendum by attempting to keep the unfair yes / no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 No to Indyref2 Bojo the Clown is adamant we won’t be allowed our second Scottish referendum. I don’t remember the EU telling the UK they couldn’t have a referendum. Yet some Leave voters claim the EU is a dictatorship? Look closer to home, because the dictatorship is right there in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said: Mike Russell still trying to rig any future Scexit referendum by attempting to keep the unfair yes / no question. What is unfair about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 What is unfair about it?A positive response is easier to promote.In the interests of fairness, if there is ever another referendum, the question should be switched to something like...Do you believe Scotland should remain within the UK?That would make SNPs campaign a no campaign! [emoji23][emoji41] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Doakes said: There's a way to go about things. And the SNP generally make themselves out to be victims and blame the Tories for everything that is bad Meanwhile coming up with some batshit mental policies and centralising everything that they can get their hands on - yet claim to promote some form of socialism / "social democracy" Strathclyde Police - gone, centralised Police counters in Erskine, Ferguslie Park, Gourock, Linwood and Port Glasgow - gone, centralised Inverclyde, Renfrewshire, and East Renfrewshire Councils - stripped of financial responsibility, centralised Renfrewshire Enterprise - gone, centralised Strathclyde Fire & Rescue Service - gone, centralised I generally support independence, but their record in government? Questionable, at best But they're the party in government and they don't care about Scotland, especially Bojo. Also I don't think the SNP are the only party that have a go at the tories to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said: No to Indyref2 Bojo the Clown is adamant we won’t be allowed our second Scottish referendum. I don’t remember the EU telling the UK they couldn’t have a referendum. Yet some Leave voters claim the EU is a dictatorship? Look closer to home, because the dictatorship is right there in London. Um, he's been adamadamant about a number of issues. BJ is courting a section of his party and the electorate at large (down south) who regard Scotland as a burden and have indicated they wouldn't be bothered if we left the UK if Brexit could be achieved - I often wonder why they seem so keen to keep us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Um, he's been adamadamant about a number of issues. BJ is courting a section of his party and the electorate at large (down south) who regard Scotland as a burden and have indicated they wouldn't be bothered if we left the UK if Brexit could be achieved - I often wonder why they seem so keen to keep us... Boris Johnston would rather be dead in a ditch than let there be a second Scottish independence referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: A positive response is easier to promote. How did that work out last time round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, proudtobeabuddy said: But they're the party in government and they don't care about Scotland, especially Bojo. Also I don't think the SNP are the only party that have a go at the tories to be fair. But the SNP are the government in Scotland and have substantial powers. My lingering memory over the last 5 years is not about positive changes the SNP have made with those powers but negativity about how we are being held back by the powers we don't have. I have sympathy for that view but they can't be relying on it all the time and as Doakes says, they are increasingly using it. IMO the SNP need to get on with using the powers they do have or stand aside and let someone else do something with them. I think we need a break from the bleating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, oaksoft said: But the SNP are the government in Scotland and have substantial powers. My lingering memory over the last 5 years is not about positive changes the SNP have made with those powers but negativity about how we are being held back by the powers we don't have. I have sympathy for that view but they can't be relying on it all the time and as Doakes says, they are increasingly using it. IMO the SNP need to get on with using the powers they do have or stand aside and let someone else do something with them. I think we need a break from the bleating. I don't disagree with what you are saying but this is our chance to change this in this General election. I'd like to see the day when our politicians in Scotland actually argue about what really matters... health, education, public services etc... We will make our decision next year (or whenever the next Independence referendum happens) for sure. Then we must live with that decision and move on but it will happen because we were lied to in 2014 over the EU and whether you're for remain or leave that's undemocratic and we deserve the right to choose what happens to our country. If independence was to happen then we would have Scottish politicians making decisions about Scotland and i'm sure we would have strong opposition to the SNP in the form of Scottish labour or Lib Dems...hell even Scottish tories who really are only concerned about Scotland. I'm not happy about the current repeated deflections but i make no apologies for wanting the Westminster's influence in Scotland gone forever and let us make our own progress, probably a few mistakes along the way too, but at least the blame culture would be gone forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 "Know your place Sweaties, in this 'Union of Equals' you'll do what England says and like it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 How did that work out last time round? [emoji3]Exactly...Image the majority if it had been the other way around! [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 I read somewhere that because it's a "act of union agreement", it's written into some ancient law or other, that we could in theory declare independence, if we wanted to Might end up a bit like Catalonia, but I'm confident we could take them in a square go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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