Inverness Ct V St Mirren... 3/8/13

[irvine_buddie]

Wasn’t at the game but I just watched the highlights and our defence looks very worrying. I think we’ll be ok for goals as we will get a striker in before the end of the transfer window and we have plenty of creative players in midfield. But every goal came from poor positioning, poor tackling, lack of pace and lack of organisation on Saturday (even the penalty although it was obviously very soft). The second goal is inexcusable, giving the ball away from centre 2 or 3 players failing to make a tackle, a bad back-pass and the keeper shitting it from the incoming striker.

As I said I wasn’t there and only seen the team sheet on Saturday, did we line up with Reilly up front and McGinn on the left? Is Barron fit? Hopefully DVZ being suspended gives him a chance to prove himself I always thought he was more solid defensively than DVZ (apart from a couple of bad games).

Very worrying, Goodwin needs to get that defence organised if he is playing in there and a right back is needed.

[insaintee]

Is this the most desperate post of the thread?

Didn't you hear? It wasn't the penalty decision that cost us. It was the length of the pitch!

Actually no if it had been the other way round you can bet that Butcher would have been raging and saying it changed the game and how he was cheated out of a result. Regardless of the truth managers often do that, it builds siege mentality and deflect blame and criticism from the team and often brings supports back on side . Right now I think St Mirren could do with a little siege mentality. There is no doubt we lack mental toughness. And tactically are a little slow to change things when we run into trouble.

However Inverness has always been a difficult gig for us and I think most people expected an Inverness win. Can't get why people are so angry a homer ref gives a dodgy decision that changes the game. Story of the SPL or what ever the f*ck it's called.

[Scabby Dug]

Wasn’t at the game but I just watched the highlights and our defence looks very worrying. I think we’ll be ok for goals as we will get a striker in before the end of the transfer window and we have plenty of creative players in midfield. But every goal came from poor positioning, poor tackling, lack of pace and lack of organisation on Saturday (even the penalty although it was obviously very soft). The second goal is inexcusable, giving the ball away from centre 2 or 3 players failing to make a tackle, a bad back-pass and the keeper shitting it from the incoming striker.

As I said I wasn’t there and only seen the team sheet on Saturday, did we line up with Reilly up front and McGinn on the left? Is Barron fit? Hopefully DVZ being suspended gives him a chance to prove himself I always thought he was more solid defensively than DVZ (apart from a couple of bad games).

Very worrying, Goodwin needs to get that defence organised if he is playing in there and a right back is needed.

Jason Naismith may be the one to take his place, IMO. He did good against Newcastle in that position when he came on for DVZ

[Bobby_F]

Is this the most desperate post of the thread?

Didn't you hear? It wasn't the penalty decision that cost us. It was the length of the pitch!

Like it or not, it DID have a bearing on the match.

The 'goals change games' phrase is one of the few bits of commentator 'stating the bleeding obvious' onese that genuinely does mean more than just the fact a team has increased their 'goals for'.

If Celtic had scored the penalty they were ridiculously awarded just after HT in the semi, do you really think we could have gone on to win it?

It wasn't just the goal - it would have been the positive mental effect it had on Celtic and the adverse one it had on us.

Of course it could be argued that yesterday we should have had the mental toughness to forget about it and get on with the game, but when you add in the howler a minute later - and you go from comfortable (no chances for ICT in the first 45 even you said I think) to 2-0 down it the first 3 mins of the second half, I think most teams would find it very tough to recover from that.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Bobby_F

[Edinbuddie]

I thought we were quite comfortable at half time and that it had been fairly even in the first half. Caley had more of the ball but we had more & better efforts on goal. The penalty decision was massive in the context of the game. Partly because it gave Caley a big boost and partly because it exposed our lack of options in terms of tactics & personnel. We'd all have been as well heading back down the road as soon as the second went in.

The biggest worry for me is that, Teale apart, we have no pace or width in the squad. We spent the afternoon lumping it up to Thommo & hoping that if he managed to win it that he'd knock it down to one of our players. We couldn't bring on another striker to help him or provide a different option because we don't have one. Teale couldn't get past Shinnie & we didn't have a naturally wide player on the left.

I think it's valid to query why we've started the season without a balanced squad and decent options to change the system and personnel when we need to. As expected, Caley were organised, energetic and aggressive whereas I'm still not sure that our players looked as if understood how they're meant to be playing for much of the game.

[irvine_buddie]

The biggest worry for me is that, Teale apart, we have no pace or width in the squad. We spent the afternoon lumping it up to Thommo & hoping that if he managed to win it that he'd knock it down to one of our players. We couldn't bring on another striker to help him or provide a different option because we don't have one. Teale couldn't get past Shinnie & we didn't have a naturally wide player on the left.

.

That is a problem, from the highlights of the game our only chances from open play came from a high ball to Thommo and him bringing it down for Harkins/Mcgowan. With good attacking options in midfield that should not be how we get up the park and create chances.

[santaponsasaint]

Desperate why?

Going by radio commentary we had the best of the 1st half and hit the post shortly before half time.

We were hit by a terrible decision within a minute of the re-start which clearly affected how the rest of the game went.

Clearly DL was talking pish about grass and wind but the game was there for the taking until a terrible refereeing decision.

What followed from St Mirren players and management wad very poor but had it's roots in that penalty award.

JP no offence you were not there, a few highlights doesn't make it a decent performance, It was a shambles, No fight, No passion from players and manager, Funny how all the experts seen it on telly,

[Bud the Baker]

I'm genuinely not having a go at you mate because I understand the points you're making, but personally, I'm sick of the 'if only' stories to explain away our defeats. If this, if that, if the other...the ref, a dodgy offside, a deflection, a keeper slipping, a short pass back... if, if, if!

We won 9 league games last season, before that we were the UKs lowest scoring senior side, we go on long runs at home without a win... This season, as things stand, the shortcomings of the squad are so clear that Stevie bleedin' Wonder can see the issues. The League Cup win showed what we CAN do, and it certainly showed that Danny CAN get it right. Tactically superb in the semi final, perfect substitutions in the latter stages of the final to settle it down.

Danny rightfully has a tank full of goodwill following the cup win. There's time to show us he isn't losing his grip, I do wonder though, and make no apologies for voicing my concern. Fingers crossed!

This is the point, you can always find an excuse for any single game but there's a limit to how many "bad days at the office" a team/manager can get away with.

[AllyM]

I think it's valid to query why we've started the season without a balanced squad and decent options to change the system and personnel when we need to.

I'm firmly in the camp that it is far too early to start talking about sacking the manager etc, but this sentence hits the nail on the head, for me. This really needs to be addressed pretty quickly.

[JP87]

JP no offence you were not there, a few highlights doesn't make it a decent performance, It was a shambles, No fight, No passion from players and manager, Funny how all the experts seen it on telly,

Absolutely no offence taken. I wasn't there and listened to Open All Mikes in which John Robertson ( ex ICT manager and always looking for a chance to wind up Chick Young by pointing out our deficiencies) said it was even in the 1st half.

I'm speaking about one specific incident in one game and regardless of debates about squad size, tactics, managerial competence etc, it had a massive bearing on the match.

I've seen and heard no evidence that we'd have gone on to lose anyway.

It may be that this defeat will ultimately be a positive as it shows up our deficiencies and gives us time to sort them.

But the penalty DID have a massive bearing and we MAY have got something from the game if if hadn't been given. I don't see how that's 'desperate' or even particularly controversial?

[santaponsasaint]

Absolutely no offence taken. I wasn't there and listened to Open All Mikes in which John Robertson ( ex ICT manager and always looking for a chance to wind up Chick Young by pointing out our deficiencies) said it was even in the 1st half.

I'm speaking about one specific incident in one game and regardless of debates about squad size, tactics, managerial competence etc, it had a massive bearing on the match.

I've seen and heard no evidence that we'd have gone on to lose anyway.

It may be that this defeat will ultimately be a positive as it shows up our deficiencies and gives us time to sort them.

But the penalty DID have a massive bearing and we MAY have got something from the game if if hadn't been given. I don't see how that's 'desperate' or even particularly controversial?

One half doesn't make a game, Inverness were not that good, we were just hopeless, Even if we are playing bad you don't take off your two best players and put on a guy just back from a serious injury and a untried kid, Woeful tactics,

Edited August 5, 2013 by santaponsasaint

[irvine_buddie]

One half doesn't make a game, Inverness were not that good, we were just hopeless, Even if we are playing bad you don't take off your two best players and put on a guy just back from a serious injury and a untried kid, Woeful tactics,

We were 3-0 down and they were both on bookings, makes sense not to risk getting them sent off.

[windae cleaner]

We were 3-0 down and they were both on bookings, makes sense not to risk getting them sent off.

If that was the case why not Vanzie

[santaponsasaint]

If that was the case why not Vanzie

For both teams there was 8 bookings and a sending off and not one bad tackle in the game, Another shocking display from a poor Scottish ref

[gc_SMFC]

For both teams there was 8 bookings and a sending off and not one bad tackle in the game, Another shocking display from a poor Scottish ref

No it wasn't, the ref was fair for both teams.

It was stupid bookings we picked up, McGinn throwing the ball at someone after a foul, McGowan tripping a player who skinned him, DVZ was always going to get booked at the penalty and again for pulling the player back.

The ref could have been perfect but the fact is it was a tactically inept and ill-disciplined performance

[santaponsasaint]

No it wasn't, the ref was fair for both teams.

It was stupid bookings we picked up, McGinn throwing the ball at someone after a foul, McGowan tripping a player who skinned him, DVZ was always going to get booked at the penalty and again for pulling the player back.

The ref could have been perfect but the fact is it was a tactically inept and ill-disciplined performance

Procter done the exact same thing and wasn't booked so don't know what game you were watching, and if you read my post correctly I said at the start, FOR BOTH TEAM.

[Reidmeister]

No it wasn't, the ref was fair for both teams.

It was stupid bookings we picked up, McGinn throwing the ball at someone after a foul, McGowan tripping a player who skinned him, DVZ was always going to get booked at the penalty and again for pulling the player back.

The ref could have been perfect but the fact is it was a tactically inept and ill-disciplined performance

That's bollocks. An ICT player threw the ball hard into the ground in front of the ref after a free kick was awarded against him and the ref gave him a finger wagging, then booked our guy for less. As for the penalty, are you for real? Deliberate handball?? I watched two views on tv and couldn't tell if it hit his hand. He certainly didn't throw his arms out to defend the ball. He was lunging to block the ball and could only have been a yard away from the player when he hammered it against him. Absolutely outrageous penalty. I'm not saying we were anything other than shit on the day, especially in the second half, but the ref did us no favours and made the game changing decision at the penalty. We were as good or bad as them in the first half but we lost our concentration after the first goal and within a few minutes were 3-0 down. Yet another shite ref.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Reidmeister

[Griff]

There was a very bad tackle for the first ICT booking which was probably the only real bookable offence during the game .

The ref had it in for us ,firstly for giving fouls against Thommo when he was just challanging for the ball , then booking him very early , he gave a penalty against us because the ICT players asked for it.

If he never awarded that penalty , the second half could have quite easily have went the same way as the first

[Kendo]

There was a very bad tackle for the first ICT booking which was probably the only real bookable offence during the game .The ref had it in for us ,firstly for giving fouls against Thommo when he was just challanging for the ball , then booking him very early , he gave a penalty against us because the ICT players asked for it.If he never awarded that penalty , the second half could have quite easily have went the same way as the first

So if we had been awarded a penalty we would have gone on to win as easily as they did or would they have fought back?

[insaintee]

So if we had been awarded a penalty we would have gone on to win as easily as they did or would they have fought back?

Dunno

Edited August 5, 2013 by insaintee

[Griff]

So if we had been awarded a penalty we would have gone on to win as easily as they did or would they have fought back?

That was the thing that disappointed me most , as Ian Dowie would say , "there was no bouncebackability".

I actually do think that a few Saints players were frightened to put tackles in because they were already on bookings ( hence the substitions )

The Ref booked a ICT player in the first half for a two footed tackle , then never booked a ICT player until they were 3 - 0 up.

If the ref had been fair , it would have been a completely different game.

[gc_SMFC]

The ref was fair.

It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Thompson had been pulled up 3 times before he was booked. It was only a matter of time before he was booked.

If DVZ had been an ICT player everyone on here would be demanding a penalty, and would be annoyed if it weren't awarded.

The ref had no impact on what was a terrible performance from everyone.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Black & White Army mobile app

[NeilPar72]

The ref was fair.It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Thompson had been pulled up 3 times before he was booked. It was only a matter of time before he was booked.If DVZ had been an ICT player everyone on here would be demanding a penalty, and would be annoyed if it weren't awarded. The ref had no impact on what was a terrible performance from everyone.Sent from my GT-I9505 using Black & White Army mobile app

Wow....

IMO its ridiculous to say that a debatable penalty at best did not have any impact at all.

[sm74]

From FIFA website:

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement

Can anyone honestly say DVZs "hand ball" ticks any of these boxes?

[Herbie]

The ref was fair.

It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Thompson had been pulled up 3 times before he was booked. It was only a matter of time before he was booked.

If DVZ had been an ICT player everyone on here would be demanding a penalty, and would be annoyed if it weren't awarded.

The ref had no impact on what was a terrible performance from everyone.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Black & White Army mobile app

I think even you know that this is bollocks. Of course he had an impact.