northstbuddie Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 In the post about Bobby McKean, after reference was made to the 3-3 draw with Rangers at Love Street, I was reminded of how players like Jacky Copland never got a proper look-in at international level because of old-firm bias in the SFA. Other players that come to mind are Jim Clunie, Tommy Bryceland, Tommy Gemmell, Cammy Murray and Tony Fitzpatrick. What 6 Saints players do you feel missed out on international caps to lesser beings from the old firm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Jim Gardiner. There have been hunners of Old Firm players worse than him who have been capped because... they are Old Firm players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Jackie Copland is the obvious one , Jim McLean on record as saying that he was his best player at United , a better sweeper than Dave Narey , and then the interview with Willie Miller about Fergie's arrival at Aberdeen , when Fergie told Miller that he had a lot to learn about playing the sweepers role that he could learn from big Jack ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) In my time supporting Saints apart from a coupla seasons back in the late 70's maybe stretching till about 81/82 we've been an unfashionable club - Steve Clarke, Frank McAvennie & Ian Ferguson were all capped shortly after leaving us as if they needed the vindication of a big money transfer to acknowledge their ability & form. Edit Q. Does it matter? A. It might seem academic since we've not had a player knocking at the Scotland team's door for a generation but yeah I think it does 'cos it affects how the club is viewed and more importantly the price we command for the players we sell............ Edited March 16, 2015 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Denis Connaghan Jackie Copland Gordon McQueen Tommy Bryceland Jim Clunie Archie Gemmel Willie Renton Jim Blair Campbell Money Billy Stark To name a few as a blast from the past, who should have had some international recognition at least in a Saint's jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I remember Scotland having 1 place in midfield available and it being between Tony Fitzpatrick, Tommy Burns and Greame Souness to fill it. I was really angry that it went to Souness because I'd never heard of him (I think he played for Middlesburgh in the old 2nd division so no games on the telly) Of course even though I've heard of him now, Fitzy was still better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another alias Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Billy Stark probably tops the list for me... What you need to remember though is that Scotland had many quality players back in the day. I was reading the other day about the Aston Villa side that won the European Cup. They had 3 Scots in the side, central defenders Ken McNaught & Allan Evans plus midfielder Des Bremner. McNaught never won a single cap, while Bremner won 1 at Hibs before he joined Villa. Evans won 8. These guys were regulars, week in and week out, won the English league and were champions of Europe... Yet the likes of Ally Dawson, Colin Jackson, etc were getting games for Scotland! I always remember Steve Clarke. After he left Love Street he spent more than 10 years as Chelsea's regular right back. Yet he only won 5 caps. Tom Boyd however lasted just 6 months at Chelsea before they got shot of him as a makeweight to sign Tony Cascarino FFS! And Boyd won over 70 caps! FFS, Stewart McKimmie won a barrowload of caps in the same era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Billy Stark probably tops the list for me... What you need to remember though is that Scotland had many quality players back in the day. I was reading the other day about the Aston Villa side that won the European Cup. They had 3 Scots in the side, central defenders Ken McNaught & Allan Evans plus midfielder Des Bremner. McNaught never won a single cap, while Bremner won 1 at Hibs before he joined Villa. Evans won 8. These guys were regulars, week in and week out, won the English league and were champions of Europe... Yet the likes of Ally Dawson, Colin Jackson, etc were getting games for Scotland! I always remember Steve Clarke. After he left Love Street he spent more than 10 years as Chelsea's regular right back. Yet he only won 5 caps. Tom Boyd however lasted just 6 months at Chelsea before they got shot of him as a makeweight to sign Tony Cascarino FFS! And Boyd won over 70 caps! FFS, Stewart McKimmie won a barrowload of caps in the same era! It's always been the way. How many Scotland squads was Campbell Money in, yet he never got on the park once? It's still going on, John Fleck was in a Scotland squad after 2 or 3 games a few years ago, and that Calum MacGregor from Sellic was in a squad earlier this season after a couple of decent games in Europe. It's a lot of pish, always has been, always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I see the Daily Retard are miffed because Mackay-Steven and Armstrong haven't been picked in Strachan's squad. It's outrageous, so it is! They're Celtic players now - should be first picks every time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Donald Hunter didnae get any caps. Should have due to his top class waving. Very pure shite goalies while at St Mirren, Herriot and Ally Hunter managed to get Caps at previous Clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabinho Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's always been the way. How many Scotland squads was Campbell Money in, yet he never got on the park once? It's still going on, John Fleck was in a Scotland squad after 2 or 3 games a few years ago, and that Calum MacGregor from Sellic was in a squad earlier this season after a couple of decent games in Europe. It's a lot of pish, always has been, always will be. Money was very unlucky to be backup when we had good keepers like Leighton and Goram.Unfortunately for Dibble, when he retired there was pish like Nicky Walker getting caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'll give you Billy Stark and Stevie Clarke. In my opinion Billy Stark is the best uncapped Scottish player in my lifetime. But the rest? Denis Connaghan: Great club player but not consistent enough for international honours. Better keepers around at the time. Jackie Copland: Fabulous player but lacked a yard of pace. If he had that yard he wouldn't have been playing for us. Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints. Tommy Bryceland: clever, but not physical enough. Spent entire career in lower divisions. Jim Clunie: big and strong but no pace. Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints. Willie Renton: Seriously! After us he had a short spell with Dunfermline and then non-league. Jim Blair: Come on. Apart from being only 22 when he left Saints you think he was better than Denis Law and Alan Gilzean? Campbell Money: Great club man, deserved to play at a higher level but not perhaps international level. Cammy Murray: One of my all time favourite players but no, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thought I,d try and put a team together , of players who should have been capped for Scotland whilst playing for Saints Money Tommy Wilson ( before leg break ) , Bobby Reid , Jackie Copland , Stevie Clarke Norrie McWhirter , Paul Lambert , Ian Ferguson , Kenny McLean Frank McAvennie , Frank McGarvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 McLean - Naw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints. Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints. Why is "only 20" a reason why they couldn't play a representative game for their country. There are many in other countries who do get a game at 20 and maybe that's half of Scotland's problem they don't bring the players into the fold young enough, or they only do if they played for the old Firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Why is "only 20" a reason why they couldn't play a representative game for their country. There are many in other countries who do get a game at 20 and maybe that's half of Scotland's problem they don't bring the players into the fold young enough, or they only do if they played for the old Firm. In those days they only named a squad of around 13/14 players and the only young players who got capped in their early years were called Pele . They were also part time like most young players as they were also serving apprenceships and they played most of their games for Saints in the old second division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Hasselhoff Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's a travesty Brian McGinty didn't get a call up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM1 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I still can't believe Franco Miranda didn't get named in the Argentina squad for the 2007 Copa America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2becks Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's a travesty Brian McGinty didn't get a call up. made into dog food. FIFY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsons dropped it Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Peter Leonard... My old classmate at St. Mirin's ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another alias Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'll give you Billy Stark and Stevie Clarke. In my opinion Billy Stark is the best uncapped Scottish player in my lifetime. But the rest? Denis Connaghan: Great club player but not consistent enough for international honours. Better keepers around at the time. Jackie Copland: Fabulous player but lacked a yard of pace. If he had that yard he wouldn't have been playing for us. Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints. Tommy Bryceland: clever, but not physical enough. Spent entire career in lower divisions. Jim Clunie: big and strong but no pace. Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints. Willie Renton: Seriously! After us he had a short spell with Dunfermline and then non-league. Jim Blair: Come on. Apart from being only 22 when he left Saints you think he was better than Denis Law and Alan Gilzean? Campbell Money: Great club man, deserved to play at a higher level but not perhaps international level. Cammy Murray: One of my all time favourite players but no, sorry. All very true. Even Frank McAvennie... Scotland had a barrowload of great strikers back then. I think McAvennie scored 16 goals for us in his last season at Love Street. Hardly prolific. West Ham United took a punt on him and he got lucky in that Paul Goddard got injured in the first game of the season and that let Maca in. He ended up scoring 20+ and was second top English scorer behind Lineker. He proved himself at the highest level and got called up. Even Billy Stark, it should be remembered that Aberdeen signed him as Gordon Strachan's understudy. He spent a season at Aberdeen and only became a regular after Strachan left for Old Trafford. What is shocking however is that Gordon Strachan found him on the bench for Scotland behind the likes of Paul McStay & Jim Bett FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 All very true. Even Frank McAvennie... Scotland had a barrowload of great strikers back then. I think McAvennie scored 16 goals for us in his last season at Love Street. Hardly prolific. West Ham United took a punt on him and he got lucky in that Paul Goddard got injured in the first game of the season and that let Maca in. He ended up scoring 20+ and was second top English scorer behind Lineker. He proved himself at the highest level and got called up. Even Billy Stark, it should be remembered that Aberdeen signed him as Gordon Strachan's understudy. He spent a season at Aberdeen and only became a regular after Strachan left for Old Trafford. What is shocking however is that Gordon Strachan found him on the bench for Scotland behind the likes of Paul McStay & Jim Bett FFS! West Ham played him in midfield like we did when he first broke through 16 league goals for us and i'm sure he missed a few games that season Worked out 1 goal from 2 games good going for a team like us as well many assists for Brian Gallagher lol If Macca had been wearing a hooped jersey that season he would have been straight in no questions asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 In the post about Bobby McKean, after reference was made to the 3-3 draw with Rangers at Love Street, I was reminded of how players like Jacky Copland never got a proper look-in at international level because of old-firm bias in the SFA. Other players that come to mind are Jim Clunie, Tommy Bryceland, Tommy Gemmell, Cammy Murray and Tony Fitzpatrick. What 6 Saints players do you feel missed out on international caps to lesser beings from the old firm? Tommy Gemmell got 1 cap My faither said he was brilliant but too shy to show it Likened him to Paul McStay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thought I,d try and put a team together , of players who should have been capped for Scotland whilst playing for Saints Money Tommy Wilson ( before leg break ) , Bobby Reid , Jackie Copland , Stevie Clarke Norrie McWhirter , Paul Lambert , Ian Ferguson , Kenny McLean Frank McAvennie , Frank McGarvey Wilson and Reid would have made the squad for injury Wilson according to press at the time was getting named in the next squad then Dawson done him the following Saturday He came back but a yard slower than he had been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie-dee Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Scotland Squads have and always will be the exclusive playground of the old firm and english based players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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