nedflanders123 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Promotion may not be your target Ned, but it is explicitly what Gilmour stated the club required whilst appointing a new manager. So his bosses will judge him on an automatic return, or not to the Prem. I agree with your points about getting in the right players that can play the system/systems. That is what makes it even more disconcerting that we are sifting endless trialists Murray knows nothing about in the hope we might turn up someone worth signing. Many including yourself have been at pains to point out to me that Murray 'knows the league' and 'knows the players to get the job done at this level' as he kept Dumbarton up on a shoe string (funny that now some posters are intimating their shoestring is more like a thick piece of rope'. All i am looking for is the evidence he has a plan, and can bring in the right players to carry it out. I don't think he will find that spending all his week looking at trialists, where are the players he supposedly knows can do the job? Where did you learn that our Chairman 'explicitly' stated promotion was required? Of course promotion is a target and more than likely via the play offs than automatic with bigger clubs like Rangers and Hibs in the league. It is not MY target and explicitly demand promotion to a new manager would have made an appointment almost impossible. I have no doubt that SG has asked IM to stabilise the club and plan to get us back up asap. However, you seem more knowledgeable than me so maybe you could provide the source if this SG statement to IM. As for a plan? He will have one and like all plans he will be working on how to implement it. Most businesses will provide a strategy (that is the role of our Board) but none show their plan to all and sundry as that would tell all our competitors exactly what we are doing. IM will feedback information on signings etc as and when it suits the club. The strategy on the other hand would be good to know so we are aware of short, medium and long term objectives. IM will be working hard behind the scenes so we need to wait and see who else joins us before the end of the transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Couple of points... IMO Losing loads of players every summer and having to find replacements is now the norm. In these days of Bosman and the widening gap between the rich and poor clubs, clubs have a large turnover of players every season. The days of keeping a good team together over many seasons just doesn't happen. Therefore, I don't believe Murray has been brought in to 'stabilise' the club. I'm pretty sure the target is to finish top 4 and have a bash at winning promotion via the play off. On the subject of trialists, IMO, this is the way of things now. Rangers have just signed a load of players after trials. Dundee United signed Ciftci after a 3 week trial and they've now just sold him to Celtic for £1.5 million FFS. Hopefully we can unearth a couple of gems ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Where did you learn that our Chairman 'explicitly' stated promotion was required? The voices that rattle about in his head. However, back in the real world, outwith the padded walls............. This is what Stewart Gilmour said "He impressed with his ethos how he wanted to play football, how he wanted to take the club forward.He's ambitious, he's young, he's got his whole managerial career in front of him," said Gilmour of Murray. "I thought all the candidates who applied for this job were excellent. We're getting a lot of good young managers coming through Our target has got to be to get out of this league, but when that will happen, time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 The voices that rattle about in his head. However, back in the real world, outwith the padded walls............. This is what Stewart Gilmour said Cheers mate. As I suspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Where did you learn that our Chairman 'explicitly' stated promotion was required? Of course promotion is a target and more than likely via the play offs than automatic with bigger clubs like Rangers and Hibs in the league. It is not MY target and explicitly demand promotion to a new manager would have made an appointment almost impossible. I have no doubt that SG has asked IM to stabilise the club and plan to get us back up asap. However, you seem more knowledgeable than me so maybe you could provide the source if this SG statement to IM. As for a plan? He will have one and like all plans he will be working on how to implement it. Most businesses will provide a strategy (that is the role of our Board) but none show their plan to all and sundry as that would tell all our competitors exactly what we are doing. IM will feedback information on signings etc as and when it suits the club. The strategy on the other hand would be good to know so we are aware of short, medium and long term objectives. IM will be working hard behind the scenes so we need to wait and see who else joins us before the end of the transfer window. My source is the telly Ned, Gilmour said it in an interview when explaining what sort of manager they were seeking. Its probably still on the bbc website if you look. Then again Gilmour also said they were looking for someone who would promote youth, so maybe its a 10 - 15 year plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm hearing from Shaun that some of the trialists are French but he doesn't know any names as they just arrived today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Can you ask Shaun if one of them is called Bahoken? Please let one of them be Bahoken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 If we go through 20 trialists this preseason and only 1 of them is signed and he turns out to be a success then the process will have been worth it. There is diamonds in the rough, it's just finding them that's the hard part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Might have missed it recently but is David Barron still training with the club or was he one of the trialists not offered a deal? Hadn't seen him mentioned in any of the friendlies so presumed he may be injured again or probably away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Might have missed it recently but is David Barron still training with the club or was he one of the trialists not offered a deal? Hadn't seen him mentioned in any of the friendlies so presumed he may be injured again or probably away. I feel like I read he was sent away, but I might just have made that up. I call that, 'doing a Lord Pity Me'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Can you ask Shaun if one of them is called Bahoken? Please let one of them be Bahoken He won't be signing. Ian Murray reckons if it ain't bahoken, don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Where did you learn that our Chairman 'explicitly' stated promotion was required? Of course promotion is a target and more than likely via the play offs than automatic with bigger clubs like Rangers and Hibs in the league. It is not MY target and explicitly demand promotion to a new manager would have made an appointment almost impossible. I have no doubt that SG has asked IM to stabilise the club and plan to get us back up asap. However, you seem more knowledgeable than me so maybe you could provide the source if this SG statement to IM. As for a plan? He will have one and like all plans he will be working on how to implement it. Most businesses will provide a strategy (that is the role of our Board) but none show their plan to all and sundry as that would tell all our competitors exactly what we are doing. IM will feedback information on signings etc as and when it suits the club. The strategy on the other hand would be good to know so we are aware of short, medium and long term objectives. IM will be working hard behind the scenes so we need to wait and see who else joins us before the end of the transfer window. There you go Ned, there is a TV interview of this as well, Gilmour targets promotion in one season, no ifs, no buts! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32765967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 There you go Ned, there is a TV interview of this as well, Gilmour targets promotion in one season, no ifs, no buts!http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32765967 He was also previously interviewed saying we needed a wheeler dealer manager, then bumped up Tommy Craig. He also sat across from St Mirren fans and told us armageddon was going to result from failing to take it up the arse for the Rangers. He probably also told the Fan Council his golf handicap is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 There you go Ned, there is a TV interview of this as well, Gilmour targets promotion in one season, no ifs, no buts!http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32765967 Of course SG targets promotion in one season as will around another 4 or 5 Chairmen in our league. Your statement was that SG explicitly told IM that promotion was 'expected'. There is a difference between a target and an expectation where you say Murray will be measured on whether we are promoted or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Of course SG targets promotion in one season as will around another 4 or 5 Chairmen in our league. Your statement was that SG explicitly told IM that promotion was 'expected'. There is a difference between a target and an expectation where you say Murray will be measured on whether we are promoted or not.Sorry is the quote misleading where Gilmour targets promotion in one season regardless of who else is in the league?a target Ned is exactly that, something you aim to hit. You don't aim to miss targets. Your quote above in the face of the evidence doesn't show you in the best light Ned. An 'Expectation' Ned is merely a 'belief'. Anyway the quote speaks for itself. Of course now Gilmour has seen at first hand Murray's recruitment drive and general capabilities who knows he may well have downgraded his target! Edited July 22, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 There you go Ned, there is a TV interview of this as well, Gilmour targets promotion in one season, no ifs, no buts! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32765967 You, like SD, tend to interpret things in a way that no one else does. "Gilmour said the club will go into the Scottish Championship with the intention of being promoted within one season, despite the presence of one or both of Hibernian and Rangers." I and, I have no doubt, the majority of thinking people will not read this as saying we must be promoted in one season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 You, like SD, tend to interpret things in a way that no one else does. "Gilmour said the club will go into the Scottish Championship with the intention of being promoted within one season, despite the presence of one or both of Hibernian and Rangers." I and, I have no doubt, the majority of thinking people will not read this as saying we must be promoted in one season. Are you for real? Just re-read what you just posted.....! I am sorry that it is irrefutable coming from the chairman, who we can only guess didn't have a gun to his head at the time, but c'mon.... Eh? ... C'mon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 You, like SD, tend to interpret things in a way that no one else does. "Gilmour said the club will go into the Scottish Championship with the intention of being promoted within one season, despite the presence of one or both of Hibernian and Rangers." I and, I have no doubt, the majority of thinking people will not read this as saying we must be promoted in one season. In light of your startling 'in denial' state gents, i put the evidence and your response to a much larger brain, with a higher intelligence to illicit a defining ruling on your stated positions. http://youtu.be/dwEDgSECGiU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie88 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Tbh if we didn't have promotion as a target I would be very disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thomas reilly played as a trialist for Falkirk last night apparently. Probably a thread elsewhere but can't be bothered looking and we may face Ian Black on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsons dropped it Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thomas reilly played as a trialist for Falkirk last night apparently. Probably a thread elsewhere but can't be bothered looking and we may face Ian Black on Saturday. Good.....surely we can win on Saturday when we will most likely be playing against ten men for at least some part of the Match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Ian Black has found his level . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Sorry is the quote misleading where Gilmour targets promotion in one season regardless of who else is in the league? a target Ned is exactly that, something you aim to hit. You don't aim to miss targets. Your quote above in the face of the evidence doesn't show you in the best light Ned. An 'Expectation' Ned is merely a 'belief'. Anyway the quote speaks for itself. Of course now Gilmour has seen at first hand Murray's recruitment drive and general capabilities who knows he may well have downgraded his target! My friend, I know what a target is. Just because you set one does not mean you are 'explicitly expected'to reach it. Most clubs set targets, to win the league, avoid relegation, win a cup etc. Expectation is not simply a belief. If the chairman of Man City pumps millions into the club and tells the manager "I expect the championship" then it is clear this is not his belief but as you pointed out "explicitly demand" that they win. Which ever way you spin it, I doubt SG told IM that not getting promotion is failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) My friend, I know what a target is. Just because you set one does not mean you are 'explicitly expected'to reach it. Most clubs set targets, to win the league, avoid relegation, win a cup etc. Expectation is not simply a belief. If the chairman of Man City pumps millions into the club and tells the manager "I expect the championship" then it is clear this is not his belief but as you pointed out "explicitly demand" that they win. Which ever way you spin it, I doubt SG told IM that not getting promotion is failure And based on his quote, I doubt he told Murray that this season is a consolidation exercise, which is what you believe.As I stated in my post, I'd wager that the target is to get into the play offs. You then have a shot at promotion and anything can happen. We will be up against the likes of Falkirk, qos, faith for the 2 remaining okay off spots. IMO, the intention to win promotion in 1 season = reaching the play offs. I don't think that anyone can argue that not reaching the play offs will be failure. Edited July 22, 2015 by nosferatu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 And based on his quote, I doubt he told Murray that this season is a consolidation exercise, which is what you believe. As I stated in my post, I'd wager that the target is to get into the play offs. You then have a shot at promotion and anything can happen. We will be up against the likes of Falkirk, qos, faith for the 2 remaining okay off spots. IMO, the intention to win promotion in 1 season = reaching the play offs. I don't think that anyone can argue that not reaching the play offs will be failure. Of course the target should be reaching the playoffs. If we don't finish top 4 the season would be a failure and - as with any failure of a season - the manager should go at the end of it. If we do finish top 4 we will have a decent shot at promotion. Would just take us hitting a purple patch and a bit of luck in May and we could be right back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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