The Politics Thread

[Slarti]

2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I actually think, if Devo max was on the ballot, the independence vote would be assured as most of those who would vote for DM would have voted remain therefore diluting the remain vote.

IMO it would pull voters from both camps.  Anyway, having three options would turn it into a single transferable vote issue as you couldn't really say anybody had won until they were over 50% and it's quite probable that none of the options would get that with only first choices - if you see what I mean.

[lenziebud]

3 minutes ago, Slarti said:

Only the libdems want anything like DevoMax, therefore it has no chance of being on the ballot paper.  Labour and the Tories want the staus quo but know that DevoMax would probably beat it, SNP and Greens want independence but know that DevoMax would probably beat it, LibDems want federalism (almost the same as DevoMax) but have no power to get it on the paper.  To me, DevoMax would just lead to independence anyway after a couple of decades, so why wait.

I agree with that. I thought the minute Blair allowed devolution and Scottish parliament that independence was the final resting place. I don't think Blair was wrong to do what he did.

I also think that its correct to hold another referendum as the question needs settled as Scottish politics is dominated by it. Current administration would have been out of office long ago.

[Slarti]

1 minute ago, lenziebud said:

I agree with that. I thought the minute Blair allowed devolution and Scottish parliament that independence was the final resting place. I don't think Blair was wrong to do what he did.

I also think that its correct to hold another referendum as the question needs settled as Scottish politics is dominated by it. Current administration would have been out of office long ago.

Yep, me too.

[portmahomack saint]

38 minutes ago, Rascal said:

I believe that Scotland could flourish as an independent country and in the EU with their own seat at the top table.

Looking at other small countries who are successful, why ever should we question that?

Should we be independent or remain in the present Union is what is being debated (not could we). Some have an ideological commitment to one or other of the present binary choices whilst some see a need to introduce a Federal System with Devi Max. 
 

Nothing wrong with giving the people in Scotland an opportunity to look at the arguments before making a decision to remain or leave  imo. To say we can’t takes us back to England acting as the senior partner or a colonial power. 
 

I suspect that post independence that there would be a rebalancing of the leading political parties. Centre left would be my guess but also a stronger right.

It's astonishing that anyone would think otherwise, we have enormous resources and potential for such a small country 

Can't believe people are still asking the question can we flourish without Westminster.. no doubt we would and why wouldn't we flourish ?  Take The Republic of Ireland under Westminster rule for instance it was one of the poorest countries in western Europe Not anymore it isn't.. They have flourished and mostly since joining the European Union which we have been dragged out of for the benefit of the few....  The same old arguments were said to the Irish from Unionist at home and in London 100 years ago... Home Rule would only mean Home ruin for Ireland the said etc etc... They were wrong then and they're wrong now.. It's time for Scotland to make it's own decisions what's best for us. 

 

 

[lenziebud]

19 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

It's astonishing that anyone would think otherwise, we have enormous resources and potential for such a small country 

Can't believe people are still asking the question can we flourish without Westminster.. no doubt we would and why wouldn't we flourish ?  Take The Republic of Ireland under Westminster rule for instance it was one of the poorest countries in western Europe Not anymore it isn't.. They have flourished and mostly since joining the European Union which we have been dragged out of for the benefit of the few....  The same old arguments were said to the Irish from Unionist at home and in London 100 years ago... Home Rule would only mean Home ruin for Ireland the said etc etc... They were wrong then and they're wrong now.. It's time for Scotland to make it's own decisions what's best for us. 

 

 

I think Scotland is as capable of any other small country of being successful and I'm 50/50 on independence

On Ireland thought my wife is Irish and I'm over and back all the time.

Their housing market was destroyed by being members of the Euro as interest rates were set for Germany and France and were way too low for Ireland.

Their healthcare is poor compared to Scotland. Its private also and costs a fortune.

There education system has way less resources than Scotland but the outcomes are no different which tells another story ?

I very much doubt Scotland will get a say on whether it joins the Euro or not despite what Nicola Sturgeon says. When we join and are in a position to join is also an interesting issue. 

The austerity measures that have been applied in Ireland at different points over the last 15 years have been way more painful than Scotland has suffered ?

Its not all sweetness and light and independence will be a huge gamble but may be worth it in the long run ?

[portmahomack saint]

20 hours ago, lenziebud said:

I think Scotland is as capable of any other small country of being successful and I'm 50/50 on independence

On Ireland thought my wife is Irish and I'm over and back all the time.

Their housing market was destroyed by being members of the Euro as interest rates were set for Germany and France and were way too low for Ireland.

Their healthcare is poor compared to Scotland. Its private also and costs a fortune.

There education system has way less resources than Scotland but the outcomes are no different which tells another story ?

I very much doubt Scotland will get a say on whether it joins the Euro or not despite what Nicola Sturgeon says. When we join and are in a position to join is also an interesting issue. 

The austerity measures that have been applied in Ireland at different points over the last 15 years have been way more painful than Scotland has suffered ?

Its not all sweetness and light and independence will be a huge gamble but may be worth it in the long run ?

50/50 

Did you copy that from the project fear manifesto

I don't know the workings of the Irish heath service but I have a family member who lives there who will know for sure.  I've just checked some figures 

Ireland spending on their health budget 2020  26.5 billion euros  = 22.5 billion GBP

Scotland heath budget from Westminster 2020                                    15.3 billion GBP 

It can't be that poor as you are claiming 

 

Hope not Fear Lenzie 

 

 

 

[shull]

 

[Rascal]

4 hours ago, shull said:

 

Deservedly so. Nothing to do with her politics as such. Reprehensible behaviour.

[alanb]

Great comeback from the Conservative party over the last few days with revelations about Boris and Carrie in the FO for BJ,s and the Deputy Chief Whip doing a double groping session with fellow MPs 

At least he resigned tonight

What a time to be alive….. Parrrttttaaayyy

PS some suggestions the MP who caught BJ was Gavin Williamson now a Sir 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Edited June 30, 2022 by alanb

[lenziebud]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:30 PM, portmahomack saint said:

50/50 

Did you copy that from the project fear manifesto

I don't know the workings of the Irish heath service but I have a family member who lives there who will know for sure.  I've just checked some figures 

Ireland spending on their health budget 2020  26.5 billion euros  = 22.5 billion GBP

Scotland heath budget from Westminster 2020                                    15.3 billion GBP 

It can't be that poor as you are claiming 

 

Hope not Fear Lenzie 

 

 

 

The vast majority of folks i know in Ireland have private health care. The vast majority of folks i know in Scotland don't, go figure.

Edited July 1, 2022 by lenziebud

[portmahomack saint]

35 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

The vast majority of folks i know in Ireland have private health care. The vast majority of folks i know in Scotland don't, go figure.

I already did... it's because they can afford it... unlike here.. was also told they also get seen a lot quicker unlike here 🙂

[faraway saint]

8 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

I already did... it's because they can afford it... unlike here.. was also told they also get seen a lot quicker unlike here 🙂

[portmahomack saint]

9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

 

You catching flies 🦟 

Lol 

[faraway saint]

7 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

 

You catching flies 🦟 

Lol 

"Lol"...................................I love going back in time. 

[portmahomack saint]

15 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

"Lol"...................................I love going back in time. 

Take it you're lonely no one playing ball tonight 😄

 

[lenziebud]

11 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

I already did... it's because they can afford it... unlike here.. was also told they also get seen a lot quicker unlike here 🙂

50 euro to see a gp and pay for all your meds. Nhs for me anyday

[faraway saint]

18 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

50 euro to see a gp and pay for all your meds. Nhs for me anyday

Aye, isn't privatisation seen as a "no no" and a Tory led despicable idea yet the Braveheart warrior is trying to sell it as the way ahead? 

[Callum Gilhooley]

20 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

50 euro to see a gp and pay for all your meds. Nhs for me anyday

I’m a fan of the NHS but I ( & many, Many others ) pay a small fortune on National Insurance and simply cannot get to see a GP in any sort of decent timescale.  Last time I tried, I was offered an appointment 5 days from my call 🙄. Was advised if it gets worse, head to A&E .

If I could keep at least part of my N.I. I’d happily invest it in a Private scheme . 
 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Callum Gilhooley

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

I’m a fan of the NHS but I ( & many, Many others ) pay a small fortune on National Insurance and simply cannot get to see a GP in any sort of decent timescale.  Last time I tried, I was offered an appointment 5 days from my call 🙄. Was advised if it gets worse, head to A&E .

If I could keep at least part of my N.I. I’d happily invest it in a Private scheme . 
 

 

Interesting, as saying anything against the NHS is seen as blasphemy. 

I'm in your boat, the NHS is outdated and out of control, especially financially.

Plenty of good people but plenty of wage thieves. 

Covid has seen a convenient excuse by GP's to reduce the number of patients they actually see face to face to a minimum.

The last couple of times I've managed to get an appointment it's been tumbleweed in the waiting areas. 

[Cumbriansaint72]

5 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Interesting, as saying anything against the NHS is seen as blasphemy. 

I'm in your boat, the NHS is outdated and out of control, especially financially.

Plenty of good people but plenty of wage thieves. 

Covid has seen a convenient excuse by GP's to reduce the number of patients they actually see face to face to a minimum.

The last couple of times I've managed to get an appointment it's been tumbleweed in the waiting areas. 

I think in hospitals anyway there are far too many levels of managers etc. Understandably there has to be some structure but especially what I've seen in West cumberland hospitals, it is a bit excessive. Also what they have been doing at said hospital is they have been getting more staff to take up NHS contracts instead of extended time on locums wages which can be more than double.

[Callum Gilhooley]

8 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Interesting, as saying anything against the NHS is seen as blasphemy. 

I'm in your boat, the NHS is outdated and out of control, especially financially.

Plenty of good people but plenty of wage thieves. 

Covid has seen a convenient excuse by GP's to reduce the number of patients they actually see face to face to a minimum.

The last couple of times I've managed to get an appointment it's been tumbleweed in the waiting areas. 

I’m perfectly happy to see a proportion of my income be used to fund an NHS of some description but the current model which was set up on the back of a World War , in an age when abject poverty and deprivation was rife , resulting in some shocking health and welfare situations.

Those who work in the NHS , by n large, do a great job but it has become a greedy monster in many ways , gobbling up money at an eye watering rate.  
 

This is just a personal opinion , as I said, I’d happily contribute to a reformed ( not privatised , not for profit ) NHS but why shouldn’t individuals have the option to do a Hybrid model ? Many people pay for private dental but NHS dentists are still available , indeed , I am an NHS dental patient . So why not medical ? 
 

I Currently pay over £4 k per annum on N.I contributions, my employer matches that yet if I take up the companies private BUPA scheme I still pay the full N.I and also get taxed extra on the scheme as a benefit in kind.  That can’t be right 🤷‍♂️
 

Finally from me , I had an operation on my foot about 2008-9 when i lived in Dumfries , the operation was not available in Dumfries in a reasonable timescale so the  NHS paid for me to have the operation done in Ross Hall in Glasgow, two night hospital stay , they would have paid for a Taxi to get there  ( my mate drove me ). And if my next of kin wanted to be there, they offered two night stay in a nearby Hotel if required -  and they say they need more money ?  Wonder why 🤔

[portmahomack saint]

17 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

I’m perfectly happy to see a proportion of my income be used to fund an NHS of some description but the current model which was set up on the back of a World War , in an age when abject poverty and deprivation was rife , resulting in some shocking health and welfare situations.

Those who work in the NHS , by n large, do a great job but it has become a greedy monster in many ways , gobbling up money at an eye watering rate.  
 

This is just a personal opinion , as I said, I’d happily contribute to a reformed ( not privatised , not for profit ) NHS but why shouldn’t individuals have the option to do a Hybrid model ? Many people pay for private dental but NHS dentists are still available , indeed , I am an NHS dental patient . So why not medical ? 
 

I Currently pay over £4 k per annum on N.I contributions, my employer matches that yet if I take up the companies private BUPA scheme I still pay the full N.I and also get taxed extra on the scheme as a benefit in kind.  That can’t be right 🤷‍♂️
 

Finally from me , I had an operation on my foot about 2008-9 when i lived in Dumfries , the operation was not available in Dumfries in a reasonable timescale so the  NHS paid for me to have the operation done in Ross Hall in Glasgow, two night hospital stay , they would have paid for a Taxi to get there  ( my mate drove me ). And if my next of kin wanted to be there, they offered two night stay in a nearby Hotel if required -  and they say they need more money ?  Wonder why 🤔

I was talking to a dentist this week at my work who told me everyone will be paying for private dental treatment and sooner than you think....  was telling me some of the costs on their side for equipment etc... he said your wee locally owned dentists will all soon be run by a few large companies fact he said 

Told him I needed a bit treatment myself what are some of the costs in the private sector {was meaning fillings etc}  he said you can get a full top set of implants from about £15K   he then said once you have implants it's even more important to look after them than your own teeth you must have a check up and hygiene appointment every 6 months at cost of.... at that point I interrupted him and said change the subject mate what team do you support 

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

1 minute ago, portmahomack saint said:

I was talking to a dentist this week at my work who told me everyone will be paying for private dental treatment and sooner than you think....  was telling me some of the costs on their side for equipment etc... he said your wee locally owned dentists will all soon be run by a few large companies fact he said 

Told him I needed a bit treatment myself what are some of the costs in the private sector {was meaning fillings etc}  he said you can get a full top set of implants from about £15K   he then said once you have implants it's even more important to look after them than your own teeth you must have a check up and hygiene appointment every 6 months at cost of.... at that point I interrupted him and said change the subject mate what team do you support 

 

I hope you told him it’s meter and a half . Private sector n all that 😂

[portmahomack saint]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Aye, isn't privatisation seen as a "no no" and a Tory led despicable idea yet the Braveheart warrior is trying to sell it as the way ahead? 

You have some imagination 

[portmahomack saint]

2 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

I hope you told him it’s meter and a half . Private sector n all that 😂

Trust me he got bumped alright