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norrie82

The championship

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I think you'll find that paragraphs are a very good idea if you want forum users to read your thread.

These prevents bleeding eyeballs.

Just trying to be helpful.

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13 minutes ago, norrie82 said:

Am I the only one to hear our fans say they’re looking forward to the championship and winning again. I am really annoyed when I hear this defeatist chat. I accept its 70-30 we will be back there next year but please don’t try and tell me that it’s the best we can do or that I should look forward to it. Look forward to gates of 2500 against Queens , Ict and Alloa. Playing with the away stand empty bar the ball boys. Look forward to losing Kyle Macgennis in the cheap? Or maybe look forward to the mighty Renfrewshire derby which we all know is a shitty fixture that does nothing to increase our status in the game. Give me our team playing at Tynecastle or Easter Road, let’s see if we can establish ourselves again as a team in Scotland’s top league. We used to be an ever present until the 90s. The championship has some tough teams and we could be down for years. It’s a crap shit fest of a league if your mid table or worse lower half. The play offs are Unfair and to win the title is tough. People say we were not ready to gain promotion?eh try tellin this to Livingston and their 1200 home support. Try telling Hamilton who surprised many with a playoff win five years ago. I don’t but that shitty argument. We had the blank canvas and we appointed a manager who was not upto the job. Then chaos. I support the manager and want him to do well but Kearney surely would have hoped to return more than 9 points since mid sept ? Regardless of how bad a team are surely as professionals you can be hard to beat- something we are not . It’s not looking good but as a club to progress and to move to the next level relegation will be a disaster and will be financially terrible. Missing out on the new tv deal would be typical and it would hurt our club greatly. We have it all there for us a great stadium, training ground and a support that Hamilton, Livingston and St Johnstone can only dream of. I won’t accept he championship it’s basically a league of empty grounds and little cash. We need to survive this year somehow . 

I can understand why fans might not mind playing in the championship given we usually score more goals and win more games (3 home wins this season) I think a lot of our fans go to the games for the entertainment and don’t mind which league it’s happening within. Remember when Gus and then Danny managed to keep us up for a few seasons, some fans were complaining that it was boring playing for draws and 1-0 wins! 

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I argued in September we should have appointed a manager who had experience in Scotland. I don’t want the manager sacked but perhaps an interim appointment with Oran in the summer might have worked better instead of throwing a part time gaffer into what was clearly a terrible mess. 

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2 minutes ago, norrie82 said:

I argued in September we should have appointed a manager who had experience in Scotland. I don’t want the manager sacked but perhaps an interim appointment with Oran in the summer might have worked better instead of throwing a part time gaffer into what was clearly a terrible mess. 

There is something fundamentally wrong with the club, what it is I don’t know? It’s been like this for years, just when we should be progressing, we seem to decline. You wanted a Scottish manger in September? Goodwin and Nelson publicly distanced themselves as even potential candidates in the summer! Why? I feel that stmirren isn’t seen as a positive move for a lot of managers and probably players also. You just have to look and see how many Scottish players we have managed to attract this season. 

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We have not been a competitive top team for over 30 years. Ok LC aside. Since late 80s we have struggled at the wrong end of the table or been in 2nd tier. We may well have the infrastructure but we dont have the leadership. I know TF is deluded but most fans like to see us win matches. 

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There is something fundamentally wrong with the club, what it is I don’t know? It’s been like this for years, just when we should be progressing, we seem to decline. You wanted a Scottish manger in September? Goodwin and Nelson publicly distanced themselves as even potential candidates in the summer! Why? I feel that stmirren isn’t seen as a positive move for a lot of managers and probably players also. You just have to look and see how many Scottish players we have managed to attract this season. 
Probably because we write off players after one or two performances

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2 hours ago, norrie82 said:

Am I the only one to hear our fans say they’re looking forward to the championship and winning again. I am really annoyed when I hear this defeatist chat. I accept its 70-30 we will be back there next year but please don’t try and tell me that it’s the best we can do or that I should look forward to it. Look forward to gates of 2500 against Queens , Ict and Alloa. Playing with the away stand empty bar the ball boys. Look forward to losing Kyle Macgennis in the cheap? Or maybe look forward to the mighty Renfrewshire derby which we all know is a shitty fixture that does nothing to increase our status in the game.

 

Give me our team playing at Tynecastle or Easter Road, let’s see if we can establish ourselves again as a team in Scotland’s top league. We used to be an ever present until the 90s. The championship has some tough teams and we could be down for years. It’s a crap shit fest of a league if your mid table or worse lower half. The play offs are Unfair and to win the title is tough. People say we were not ready to gain promotion?eh try tellin this to Livingston and their 1200 home support. Try telling Hamilton who surprised many with a playoff win five years ago. I don’t but that shitty argument.

We had the blank canvas and we appointed a manager who was not upto the job. Then chaos. I support the manager and want him to do well but Kearney surely would have hoped to return more than 9 points since mid sept ?

Regardless of how bad a team are surely as professionals you can be hard to beat- something we are not . It’s not looking good but as a club to progress and to move to the next level relegation will be a disaster and will be financially terrible. Missing out on the new tv deal would be typical and it would hurt our club greatly.

We have it all there for us a great stadium, training ground and a support that Hamilton, Livingston and St Johnstone can only dream of. I won’t accept he championship it’s basically a league of empty grounds and little cash. We need to survive this year somehow . 

I hate the premiership and also having the ugly 2 clubs in it, as much as i enjoyed promotion give me the championship any day....to me we are not a premier league club, we are a small club punching above our weight just now in a league above where we should be. Think every now and again we enjoy going up but are very quickly put in our place. To even challenge for promotion in championship every season is enough for me...

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The current set-up in Scotland isn't a good fit for us. We are pretty much on a par with Inverness and Partick Thistle and will always sit around 10th to 14th in the overall hierarchy.
A 16 team league would allow for a sustained stay in the Premier and maybe a bit of freedom to make the odd gamble and push higher up. A 10 team league would allow us some time in the Premier, but more time in a Championship with a couple bigger clubs and therefore bigger crowds.
In terms of crowds and finances though around 12th or 13th is where we are.
We will therefore be a yo-yo club. I don't see a huge problem with that actually, as 2000 and last season were by far the two best years I've had supporting St Mirren.
Clubs like Inverness have shown you can have a few good years getting 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finishes, but eventually, you will return to more or less where your financial standing in the overall hierarchy is.
The "problem" for fans like a couple of the posters above is they don't seem to be able to accept where we are and therefore what our results are likely to be. It is certainly possible we could establish ourselves in the top six like St Johnstone, but to do that we need to increase our off-field revenue by approx 1m pounds as they have. I saw one poster getting very excited about the TV revenue from the new Sky deal. Had to laugh. It is a slightly better but still not a good deal when we compare to leagues of a similar standing in Europe (or Gary Lineker's salary for presenting an English highlights show). More importantly, it won't make any difference to our standing in Scottish football as other clubs revenue will also increase, wages will adjust accordingly, and the better players will still end up at clubs slightly above us. Money is illusionary, and that TV deal is of absolutely no use to us for winning football matches.
The only way to improve our standing in Scottish football to the point where we will actually enjoy being in the Premier League is to put ourselves at a comparative financial advantage over clubs of a similar size. Exactly as Motherwell and Dundee have done by cheating and stealing, Kilmarnock have done by having a rich benefactor willing to service their debt, or St Johnstone have done by building a successful revenue stream away from football activities. In our case this could be hospitality, accommodation, fitness centres etc. 
This won't happen to us any time soon for a few reasons;
- Gordon Scott isn't actually interested in doing it. (He'd have started by now if he was).
- Tony Fitzpatrick doesn't have the skillset to do it
- Campbell Kennedy is incompetent.
- SMISA don't have any say on the running of the club, and their vision extends to doing manual labour around Ralston.
The commercial side of the club has been stagnant for years, and probably performs as badly as our scouting operation which I believe for a club of our size is the worst in Scotland outside of Falkirk.
The only really well run part of the club has been the Academy under the leadership of David Longwell, without which we would probably be in League 1 by now. The money generated from the sales of key players was used to win us the league last season (alongside the performances of academy players). However, that money is not a constant, predictable revenue stream. We will probably bank a little from Kyle & Ethan and from what I understand that will be the end of it for a while.
So, to answer the original point raised, you might as well enjoy being in The Championship because that is where we are going to spend a lot of our time. There are advantages and disadvantages to both leagues, with home games generally being better in the Premier and away games better in the Championship. The Premier isn't that much fun though unless we can actually compete. This season, for example, is f**king murder.
Clubs like St Johnstone and Kilmarnock are operating on levels of turnover higher than ours, and will therefore continue to bring in better players than us. The best we can really hope for is where Danny Lennon got us to, 9th in the league and winning a national cup. Of course, Stewart Gilmour fired him mainly because the finances are so tight he thought it a good idea to remove the manager's salary completely and just get by with a coach and a couple of players running things. It was a woeful decision but financial stress sometimes causes us to act irrationally.
The biggest shame for me is that it would appear (and I may be wrong here, but I doubt it), that the 1m pound bounty from John McGinn's transfer will have been spent this season on a massive turnover of incompetent players and managers. This could and should have been used to bring in further investors to build the facilities that would allow us add the further revenue streams that we need if we are ever to put ourselves at a sustainable comparative advantage over the other clubs that look to finish between 3rd and 9th in the Premier League.
I do enjoy a day out to Ayr through.


Pardon?

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6 hours ago, Kemp said:

The current set-up in Scotland isn't a good fit for us. We are pretty much on a par with Inverness and Partick Thistle and will always sit around 10th to 14th in the overall hierarchy.

A 16 team league would allow for a sustained stay in the Premier and maybe a bit of freedom to make the odd gamble and push higher up. A 10 team league would allow us some time in the Premier, but more time in a Championship with a couple bigger clubs and therefore bigger crowds.

In terms of crowds and finances though around 12th or 13th is where we are.

We will therefore be a yo-yo club. I don't see a huge problem with that actually, as 2000 and last season were by far the two best years I've had supporting St Mirren.

Clubs like Inverness have shown you can have a few good years getting 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finishes, but eventually, you will return to more or less where your financial standing in the overall hierarchy is.

The "problem" for fans like a couple of the posters above is they don't seem to be able to accept where we are and therefore what our results are likely to be. It is certainly possible we could establish ourselves in the top six like St Johnstone, but to do that we need to increase our off-field revenue by approx 1m pounds as they have. I saw one poster getting very excited about the TV revenue from the new Sky deal. Had to laugh. It is a slightly better but still not a good deal when we compare to leagues of a similar standing in Europe (or Gary Lineker's salary for presenting an English highlights show). More importantly, it won't make any difference to our standing in Scottish football as other clubs revenue will also increase, wages will adjust accordingly, and the better players will still end up at clubs slightly above us. Money is illusionary, and that TV deal is of absolutely no use to us for winning football matches.

The only way to improve our standing in Scottish football to the point where we will actually enjoy being in the Premier League is to put ourselves at a comparative financial advantage over clubs of a similar size. Exactly as Motherwell and Dundee have done by cheating and stealing, Kilmarnock have done by having a rich benefactor willing to service their debt, or St Johnstone have done by building a successful revenue stream away from football activities. In our case this could be hospitality, accommodation, fitness centres etc. 

This won't happen to us any time soon for a few reasons;

- Gordon Scott isn't actually interested in doing it. (He'd have started by now if he was).

- Tony Fitzpatrick doesn't have the skillset to do it

- Campbell Kennedy is incompetent.

- SMISA don't have any say on the running of the club, and their vision extends to doing manual labour around Ralston.

The commercial side of the club has been stagnant for years, and probably performs as badly as our scouting operation which I believe for a club of our size is the worst in Scotland outside of Falkirk.

The only really well run part of the club has been the Academy under the leadership of David Longwell, without which we would probably be in League 1 by now. The money generated from the sales of key players was used to win us the league last season (alongside the performances of academy players). However, that money is not a constant, predictable revenue stream. We will probably bank a little from Kyle & Ethan and from what I understand that will be the end of it for a while.

So, to answer the original point raised, you might as well enjoy being in The Championship because that is where we are going to spend a lot of our time. There are advantages and disadvantages to both leagues, with home games generally being better in the Premier and away games better in the Championship. The Premier isn't that much fun though unless we can actually compete. This season, for example, is f**king murder.

Clubs like St Johnstone and Kilmarnock are operating on levels of turnover higher than ours, and will therefore continue to bring in better players than us. The best we can really hope for is where Danny Lennon got us to, 9th in the league and winning a national cup. Of course, Stewart Gilmour fired him mainly because the finances are so tight he thought it a good idea to remove the manager's salary completely and just get by with a coach and a couple of players running things. It was a woeful decision but financial stress sometimes causes us to act irrationally.

The biggest shame for me is that it would appear (and I may be wrong here, but I doubt it), that the 1m pound bounty from John McGinn's transfer will have been spent this season on a massive turnover of incompetent players and managers. This could and should have been used to bring in further investors to build the facilities that would allow us add the further revenue streams that we need if we are ever to put ourselves at a sustainable comparative advantage over the other clubs that look to finish between 3rd and 9th in the Premier League.

I do enjoy a day out to Ayr through.

Agree with all of that. Since world war 2 our mean average league position has been between 12th and 13th so we are really where we usually are. On that basis a regime that gets us above tenth is I think successful and one that has us below fifteenth is a failure. I actually thought Danny was a poor manager but on reflection he did rather well given the above 

If we want to advance need to have a better CEO at the helm. Compare Leanne Dempster at Hibs with Tony and it becomes obvious. Likewise on the commercial front the set up seems stagnant and can think no further than having yet another dinner. 

We have a long way to go but clearly our current structure and staff in post does not provide the answer 

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9 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

There is something fundamentally wrong with the club, what it is I don’t know? It’s been like this for years, just when we should be progressing, we seem to decline. You wanted a Scottish manger in September? Goodwin and Nelson publicly distanced themselves as even potential candidates in the summer! Why? I feel that stmirren isn’t seen as a positive move for a lot of managers and probably players also. You just have to look and see how many Scottish players we have managed to attract this season. 

For as long as I can remember there has been no spark at board level and that is where the club is driven from. I'm not saying we should have a board that overdpends but we need one bursting with energy and we don't have that. 

In Brian Caldwell we had a steady if not stunning CEO. I have a feeling his Board would not give him much space as they appeared to enjoy the power. We nowhave someone who if he has a role certainly isn't doing much other than making embarrassing remarks

Managerially TH and JRwere a breath of fresh air. Gus achieved a lot but hardly got the enthusiasm levels high. 

I also tend to think that there is a closed shop feel about the place at non playing levels  that needs to be addressed. 

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12 minutes ago, Oldfellow said:

For as long as I can remember there has been no spark at board level and that is where the club is driven from. I'm not saying we should have a board that overdpends but we need one bursting with energy and we don't have that. 

In Brian Caldwell we had a steady if not stunning CEO. I have a feeling his Board would not give him much space as they appeared to enjoy the power. We nowhave someone who if he has a role certainly isn't doing much other than making embarrassing remarks

Managerially TH and JRwere a breath of fresh air. Gus achieved a lot but hardly got the enthusiasm levels high. 

I also tend to think that there is a closed shop feel about the place at non playing levels  that needs to be addressed. 

What did Brian Caldwell do that is not being done just now? Never understood the clamour for Brian as to me did as little as the rest...

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43 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Looking forward to the Championship so that we can start winning again?

Seriously?

FFS, I spent year after year watching us lose in the First Division.

Just look at Patrick Thistle and Falkirk.

The Championship is shit!

Exactly this, do people think Partick fans are having a great time right now?

Our recent 3 year spell in the Championship was largely a disaster. The first season was awful until Rae give us a glimmer of hope and melt us up. We were then diabolical until late Feb when Jack Ross got the results flowing. Of course the final season was terrific, but most of our time down there wasn’t enjoyable with lots of wins. We came close to ending up in League One ffs.

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5 minutes ago, gstretchuk said:

What did Brian Caldwell do that is not being done just now? Never understood the clamour for Brian as to me did as little as the rest...

Don't think he did anything extraordinary. I was comparing what we have now with him. What we have now I actually think is a negative influence. Brian was steady if unspectacular. I also can't believe Tony does or is capable of doing the full range of duties. I may be wrong but that's how it looks to me. 

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3 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Exactly this, do people think Partick fans are having a great time right now?

Our recent 3 year spell in the Championship was largely a disaster. The first season was awful until Rae give us a glimmer of hope and melt us up. We were then diabolical until late Feb when Jack Ross got the results flowing. Of course the final season was terrific, but most of our time down there wasn’t enjoyable with lots of wins. We came close to ending up in League One ffs.

Would always rather be in the Premier but we need to find a way to progress in it. A few seasons of just surviving isn't going to bring in the crowds. A successful championship will but we all know how difficult it is to get there after relegation. 

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I hate the premiership and also having the ugly 2 clubs in it, as much as i enjoyed promotion give me the championship any day....to me we are not a premier league club, we are a small club punching above our weight just now in a league above where we should be. Think every now and again we enjoy going up but are very quickly put in our place. To even challenge for promotion in championship every season is enough for me...



This sums it up. I detest the bigot brothers and the fawning media that support them. We are a small country that does nothing to encourage professional football out with the big 2. The top league is far too small, primarily in order to guarantee 4 bigotfests a season. The top league should be 18 or 20 clubs in order to encourage teams to bring their own players through. Will never happen while those 2 are here

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11 hours ago, norrie82 said:

Am I the only one to hear our fans say they’re looking forward to the championship and winning again. I am really annoyed when I hear this defeatist chat. I accept its 70-30 we will be back there next year but please don’t try and tell me that it’s the best we can do or that I should look forward to it. Look forward to gates of 2500 against Queens , Ict and Alloa. Playing with the away stand empty bar the ball boys. Look forward to losing Kyle Macgennis in the cheap? Or maybe look forward to the mighty Renfrewshire derby which we all know is a shitty fixture that does nothing to increase our status in the game.

 

Give me our team playing at Tynecastle or Easter Road, let’s see if we can establish ourselves again as a team in Scotland’s top league. We used to be an ever present until the 90s. The championship has some tough teams and we could be down for years. It’s a crap shit fest of a league if your mid table or worse lower half. The play offs are Unfair and to win the title is tough. People say we were not ready to gain promotion?eh try tellin this to Livingston and their 1200 home support. Try telling Hamilton who surprised many with a playoff win five years ago. I don’t but that shitty argument.

We had the blank canvas and we appointed a manager who was not upto the job. Then chaos. I support the manager and want him to do well but Kearney surely would have hoped to return more than 9 points since mid sept ?

Regardless of how bad a team are surely as professionals you can be hard to beat- something we are not . It’s not looking good but as a club to progress and to move to the next level relegation will be a disaster and will be financially terrible. Missing out on the new tv deal would be typical and it would hurt our club greatly.

We have it all there for us a great stadium, training ground and a support that Hamilton, Livingston and St Johnstone can only dream of. I won’t accept he championship it’s basically a league of empty grounds and little cash. We need to survive this year somehow . 

Yeah, i bet the Partick Thistle fans were delighted to be relegated, to then be within a baw hair of going down another level this season.

This is the reality of dropping down to the Championship. It almost happened on two occasions last time round when we went down. Falkirk are an example of a club who have came close to promotion on many occasions, though have now got to the point that poor finances, has resulted in youth football being scrapped and they are on the brink of collapse if they don't turn around their fortunes this season.

We have the infrastructure of a Premier league team and really should be doing better. 

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