Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Frank McGarvey went from St Mirren to Celtic via Liverpool - he never played a first team game for the scousers. The difference being that McGarvey moved down to Liverpool, trained with the club and played for their reserve team and was being kept out the starting XI by a pretty incredible set of forwards! In the Herald article it mentions one signing who never met anyone from the Chilean Rangers and said he never once set foot in the town where they were based. Imagine that replicated at St Mirren and on the black and white army... the signing / transfer window threads and excitement of players signing before a few days later they are loaned to a club in another country... Bahoken without the 2 or 3 games he actually played for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The difference being that McGarvey moved down to Liverpool, trained with the club and played for their reserve team and was being kept out the starting XI by a pretty incredible set of forwards! In the Herald article it mentions one signing who never met anyone from the Chilean Rangers and said he never once set foot in the town where they were based. Imagine that replicated at St Mirren and on the black and white army... the signing / transfer window threads and excitement of players signing before a few days later they are loaned to a club in another country... Bahoken without the 2 or 3 games he actually played for us! Imagining Bahoken not actually playing is a pretty appealing thought.... I'm convinced now. The Argies are sound as a pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I for one will be reviewing my relationship with St Mirren if this deal goes through. Being owned by guys who live half way round the world , appointing a manger from half way round the world , profits ( if any ) being delivered half way round the world. I'm heading to my 57th year of which 50 years I have attended games home and away. St Mirren for me is part of my roots a Paisley community club to the town of my birth. If it stops being a community club I will not be back next season. It's not spitting the dummy out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Never heard of the Wee Tax Case, WeeBud? Fined £2.87m. Admitted and accepted by Rangers - of course the club went into liquidation and (like many another bill) it remained unpaid. Here's a long-winded rant about it. http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/crystal-myth-the-untold-story-of-the-wee-tax-case/ or googleyour own. It's out there. Ignored by the Scottish Press, naturally... Sorry Bluto, I was of course talking about the Big Tax Case..........still not seeing punishment right enough only the outstanding tax amount deemed due from the wee tax case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Imagining Bahoken not actually playing is a pretty appealing thought.... I'm convinced now. The Argies are sound as a pound. Indeed but when Bahookie arrived there was great expectation until we saw him perform. If he had never played it would have been lamented that we had let "Isma II" slip through our fingers when he was the one we had been waiting for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sorry Bluto, I was of course talking about the Big Tax Case..........still not seeing punishment right enough only the outstanding tax amount deemed due from the wee tax case.Hector is still chasing them for it,he won't give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Indeed but when Bahookie arrived there was great expectation until we saw him perform. If he had never played it would have been lamented that we had let "Isma II" slip through our fingers when he was the one we had been waiting for! No, no, no, Adam Campbell was the one we were waiting on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Fitzy Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I for one will be reviewing my relationship with St Mirren if this deal goes through. Being owned by guys who live half way round the world , appointing a manger from half way round the world , profits ( if any ) being delivered half way round the world. I'm heading to my 57th year of which 50 years I have attended games home and away. St Mirren for me is part of my roots a Paisley community club to the town of my birth. If it stops being a community club I will not be back next season. It's not spitting the dummy out. A lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions regarding the "Argentinians". An article full of "if's and but's" from some journalist and certain people are "losing their minds". These guys have broken no laws or rules during their involvement with the Chilean Rangers. Yes, they have been investigated for some "not so normal" methods of football business, but like I said in a previous post, there's a big difference between being investigated and being found guilty of something. Regarding the "community club" thing. Are you saying you will consider not supporting the club if anyone outside the Paisley area buys it? If so, I would start looking for a new club to support if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 A lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions regarding the "Argentinians". An article full of "if's and but's" from some journalist and certain people are "losing their minds". These guys have broken no laws or rules during their involvement with the Chilean Rangers. Yes, they have been investigated for some "not so normal" methods of football business, but like I said in a previous post, there's a big difference between being investigated and being found guilty of something. Sorry, but for me, this does not even come close to passing the smell test. Found guilty or not, this is absolutely honking of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 A lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions regarding the "Argentinians". An article full of "if's and but's" from some journalist and certain people are "losing their minds". These guys have broken no laws or rules during their involvement with the Chilean Rangers. Yes, they have been investigated for some "not so normal" methods of football business, but like I said in a previous post, there's a big difference between being investigated and being found guilty of something. Regarding the "community club" thing. Are you saying you will consider not supporting the club if anyone outside the Paisley area buys it? If so, I would start looking for a new club to support if I were you. Good post. A lot of people have already tarred and feathered the Argentinians based on one journalist interviewing another journalist. (is that how Chinese Whispers started). I have yet to see in the press any official statement that the Argentinians have actually made an offer or advised on their intent for the club should they make the acquisition. If we are waiting on a St Mirren fan suddenly appearing to purchase the club then wake up because that is not going to happen. If the club is to be sold then it will be more than likely sold to someone who is not St Mirren minded and is buying it as a business to make money. Lets face it the current board are hardly running it as a money making business. There is no leadership being presented from the current board. It appears they are only interested in selling the business. (which is quite ironic as they only own 52 % of the business. However that is a separate issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) if I WATCH ANY OTHER A lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions regarding the "Argentinians". An article full of "if's and but's" from some journalist and certain people are "losing their minds". These guys have broken no laws or rules during their involvement with the Chilean Rangers. Yes, they have been investigated for some "not so normal" methods of football business, but like I said in a previous post, there's a big difference between being investigated and being found guilty of something. Regarding the "community club" thing. Are you saying you will consider not supporting the club if anyone outside the Paisley area buys it? If so, I would start looking for a new club to support if I were you. I don't care what they did with another club. From my prospective - Has been written many times. They are not traveling to buy a small club in Scotland to be men of charity. They see an opportunity to make money. That money ( profit ) if any will be sent half way round the world. If you think they are going to pump money into St Mirren then you live in cloud coocooland ! Edit to add What more evidence do you naïve guys need. You have Raith Rovers - Ardrie - Dundee - Hearts - The evidence is overwhelming take the blinkers off your eyes and open up your mind and just have a wee think for half an hour You wont get me supporting another professional club , would just go and watch the local club in Rothesay as I know a few of the lads playing in the team. Then go for a couple of pints after the game have found that as enjoyable as going to Saints games these day's Edited January 15, 2015 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Edit to add What more evidence do you naïve guys need. You have Raith Rovers - Ardrie - Dundee - Hearts - The evidence is overwhelming take the blinkers off your eyes and open up your mind and just have a wee think for half an hour I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think Pini was involved at either of those clubs. Other foreigners were, but all four are still alive and the only reason Hearts aren't at their natural level is that it only happened recently. You missed out Livingston, who were mismanaged from the start. I don't think the evidenve is overwhelming, there's cause for concern obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (which is quite ironic as they only own 52 % of the business. However that is a separate issue) 75% at the last count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambud Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I do wonder why they're in, what the ultimate goal is. Reading around, I've seen conflicting reports. The fan interviewed by Graeme states they didn't care about the fans, but in interviews Pini states they did and they were looking to build an academy to develop players. The fan also mentions the black list, but nothing about actual tax evasion. So, it's listed as a possible tax haven though there's nothing to say Pini was actually charged or the club punished. The fan talks about the moving on of players, but ironically the club just sold a lad to Werder Bremen who was loaned out straight after signing from Palermo. (Fair enough, that might be the new regime striking lucky by benefitting from a pre-Pini leaving deal). Is the interview with the fan, like so often happens here, the views of a fan making more than was there because of promotion then relegation or is it legit? I can only hope the Board have asked the right questions. Why are they in? Will they fill the squad with transient players? I don't know if Scottish clubs can be used for players to get permits as say Belgium can...is that one aspect? Did dealing with Palermo wet their appetite for Europe? Have they seen the Ralston and felt we're part the way to their ultimate goal at CSD Rangers Talca? The whole thing in Graeme's article about "they treated us like a business...", is it really so bad? They could never talk to any of us and we'd be happy so long as they make money legitemately and bring some success or even stability and an occasional cup final. imagine SG was going to buy a club elsewhere and some St Mirren fans were rolled out to discredit him, you'd easily find people to say he sacked all the good managers, someone else moaning about the managers he hired, some people moaning about moving stadium, some people moaning about the price of the games, some people moaning about lack of investment, the bogies in the toilet, the dug shite on Murray street, the updating of HoF boards, his selling price etc and on and on. f**k, all they'd need to do is roll out Dicko and they'd think the world's problems were caused by SG alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) imagine SG was going to buy a club elsewhere and some St Mirren fans were rolled out to discredit him, you'd easily find people to say he sacked all the good managers, someone else moaning about the managers he hired, some people moaning about moving stadium, some people moaning about the price of the games, some people moaning about lack of investment, the bogies in the toilet, the dug shite on Murray street, the updating of HoF boards, his selling price etc and on and on. f**k, all they'd need to do is roll out Dicko and they'd think the world's problems were caused by SG alone.They might find a fan who could indeed moan about poor managerial appointments, inactivity in transfer windows, and the dug shite on Murray Street, but what they couldn't say is that he breezed into a club in Belgium, before buggering off to buy one in Austria, nor would the words 'tax issues' come up either.Any fan dishing the 'dug shit' on SG would also have to mention him coming in with colleagues around 1998 and sticking with the same club for nearly 20 years, with no whiff of using his time to make a buck for himself by using St Mirren as a vehicle for wheeling and dealing kids between clubs. Edit: and on the subject of my personal moan about the HoF boards - it really isn't like I'm asking the club to fill in the stadium corners, install jumbo screens, or increase the capacity to 10,000.... two additions to existing boards that would cost a couple of hundred quid and a couple of hours time? With other people willing to do the work so they needen't do anything but make a phone call and pay B&S visual technologies for a new board? Sorry, but if they can't organise that in one year and eight months, then I despair. Edited January 15, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 imagine SG was going to buy a club elsewhere and some St Mirren fans were rolled out to discredit him, you'd easily find people to say he sacked all the good managers, someone else moaning about the managers he hired, some people moaning about moving stadium, some people moaning about the price of the games, some people moaning about lack of investment, the bogies in the toilet, the dug shite on Murray street, the updating of HoF boards, his selling price etc and on and on. f**k, all they'd need to do is roll out Dicko and they'd think the world's problems were caused by SG alone. Who would ? Certainly not me I know exactly what Stuart Gilmour and co did to save our club in it's hour of need. This will be the same reason this deal will not go through. They have St Mirren in their blood and unlike some lost souls in this thread will see the bigger picture , meaning this deal will not go through and why it's not with one working day in the week left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Fitzy Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 if I WATCH ANY OTHER I don't care what they did with another club. From my prospective - Has been written many times. They are not traveling to buy a small club in Scotland to be men of charity. They see an opportunity to make money. That money ( profit ) if any will be sent half way round the world. If you think they are going to pump money into St Mirren then you live in cloud coocooland ! Edit to add What more evidence do you naïve guys need. You have Raith Rovers - Ardrie - Dundee - Hearts - The evidence is overwhelming take the blinkers off your eyes and open up your mind and just have a wee think for half an hour You wont get me supporting another professional club , would just go and watch the local club in Rothesay as I know a few of the lads playing in the team. Then go for a couple of pints after the game have found that as enjoyable as going to Saints games these day's I don't expect them to pump a bottomless pit of money into us. I actually expect anybody who buys us to make a profit if we are run properly. After all, modern day football is a business. If there business plan is to have some decent players coming to the club with the view of selling them on when they have proved themselves(1 or 2 seasons maybe), then that is fine by me. At the moment we usually only sign average players(if we are lucky) on 1or 2 year contracts. If we are getting a better calibre of player for similar periods of time, then it can only be good for us on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo_smfc Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Also, not to be too pedantic, but... Rangers admitted and were found guilty and punished for several cases of tax evasion. There is an ongoing appeal against the quaint majority decision that has temporarily let the deid club off in SOME of their EBT cases. The appeal is being pursued vigorously by HMRC. The not paying thing was just another nail in the coffin. What took Rangers out was Murray trying to run them on money he never had (our money), flogging it off to Whyte for a £1.00 , who then hoped to run it.. till Supersalary got them beat in europe by two wee diddy clubs - and the pot was then, tragically, empty. 'Supersalary'....thats a belter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 if I WATCH ANY OTHER I don't care what they did with another club. From my prospective - Has been written many times. They are not traveling to buy a small club in Scotland to be men of charity. They see an opportunity to make money. That money ( profit ) if any will be sent half way round the world. If you think they are going to pump money into St Mirren then you live in cloud coocooland ! Edit to add What more evidence do you naïve guys need. You have Raith Rovers - Ardrie - Dundee - Hearts - The evidence is overwhelming take the blinkers off your eyes and open up your mind and just have a wee think for half an hour You wont get me supporting another professional club , would just go and watch the local club in Rothesay as I know a few of the lads playing in the team. Then go for a couple of pints after the game have found that as enjoyable as going to Saints games these day's Nobody is going to buy the Club to be charitable,anybody buying our Club is going to want to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It would be really helpful AND really easy for the BOD to make a statement on this fiasco. I don't need nor want to know details, just is the takeover on or not? This is just dragging on and it's not helpful to the team especially when we are bottom of the league at the moment...far too much uncertainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) It would appear there was a widespread investigation in 2012. This saw 37 Argentinian players identified as being involved in these "deals" with over 140 agents suspended. When the attempt was made to suspend the players there was a protest from the clubs who stated the practise was legal and common place in the industry. This was clubs in the Argentine A & B leagues, with the "tax haven" clubs being from Uruguay, Chile and Switzerland. The Argentine clubs have since then had to fill out multiple forms and announce when players contracts are ended/transferred. So, if the Argentinian clubs thought it was legal... Also, http://www.elamaule.cl/noticia/deporte/exclusivo-ricardo-pini-habla-de-la-actualidad-de-rangers - You'll need to put through google translate. They do admit to being involved, but clearly state they believe it's legal and allows them to invest in the club. They bought land for the training complex and did indeed invest in the squad. They weren't profitable, but hoped to be in the next season. Edited January 15, 2015 by TsuMirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad saint 2 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 if we sell to this mob with all this tax and player merry go round why didnt we sell to the english offer , both are not clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Did you know that if every St Mirren fan that bought a euro millions ticket every week bought two euro millions tickets a week we'd be twice as likely to get a euro millions winner buying our club.................... Fool proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 A lot of people have already tarred and feathered the Argentinians based on one journalist interviewing another journalist. (is that how Chinese Whispers started). and I thought they started on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nobody is going to buy the Club to be charitable,anybody buying our Club is going to want to make money. Have wrote that over and over and over. Tell me something where is the money going to go ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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