Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 We gave him a three and a half year deal when he broke in, 2011 to 2015. We can't be giving five year deals to anyone, just isn't worth the commitment. For every one who goes to on to be a sellable asset there's going to be four or five who aren't good enough but end up hanging around the squad with their long contracts anyway. That why its three years with the clubs option to extend.... Or not! Come on TC get with the programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Yes, and if he doesn't fit in or does not make an impact then they are stuck with him unless they can sell. Very few players get that length of contract unless you are top dollar at a top EPL side. We should not forget how much it has cost us to get rid of players on lengthy contract and who were failures at our club. Hibs have taken a risk and if it works out then they will have been proved right.How comes Dundee Utd/Hamilton manage it? Have they out manoeuvred the old filth and play in the EPL now?What makes me laugh out loud on the forum, and on this thread in particular is all the wailing, greeting, gnashing of teeth etc when a young player moves on from us for a paltry return on Investment... But the same peeps wail, greet and gnash when presented with the obvious solution, and call it 'unaffordable, too expensive, unworkable' despite the fact other clubs like us do quite handsomely out of it! So please tell me should we continue to sign these guys on relatively short term deals and let them walk for peanuts? Or... Should we insist the board actually do something about it and plan for the future? Wont be the current board though, they have shown to be abject failures in getting any sort of half decent transfer fee in for a player in demand. A big issue to be addressed if we move to a fan ownership model. Do we invest, or develop players for everyone else? Edited July 31, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) We gave him a three and a half year deal when he broke in, 2011 to 2015. We can't be giving five year deals to anyone, just isn't worth the commitment. For every one who goes to on to be a sellable asset there's going to be four or five who aren't good enough but end up hanging around the squad with their long contracts anyway. We gave him a two and a half year deal, he didn't make his debut until 2012/13. However, I'm fairly sure Mallan, Morgan and McLear all got three year deals towards the end of last season so we do hand them out. As you say, it's a gamble - for example, only a few months before McGinn got his long term deal Thomas Reilly got one. A certain someone was furious yesterday that Ian Murray was talking about Hibs, I can only imagine he'll be apopletic with rage when he finds out he's also been talking about Hearts: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/ian-murray-compares-labour-crisis-to-hearts-plight-1-3845824 Edited July 31, 2015 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 That why its three years with the clubs option to extend.... Or not! Come on TC get with the programme. Well it would be a mutual extension option then, which the player could easily turn down. John had a contract offer on the table from us for all last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronaldo Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hopefully we've got what we deserve for him and the board haven't just accepted peanuts like we did for Kenny. Hopefully 150k or so and a chunk should be given to IM to sort the squad ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well it would be a mutual extension option then, which the player could easily turn down. John had a contract offer on the table from us for all last season. Not mutual, player cant turn it down, although there is negotiation on wages based on appearances. I.e. X amount of appearances earns you X amount of average full time wage up to X amount then full time average is paid. Also at the option point, you can offer said player a new, long term better deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Mixed feelings - disappointed to see McGinn go for what I reckon'll be a rock bottom figure but given the threat (real or imaginary?) to go stateside and leave us with no compo I suppose it could've been worse. Realistically there was no way he could've stayed with the club although it's unfortunate he's gone to one of our main rivals for the coming season. Insert suitable idiom.................... PS - 17/3/13! Edited July 31, 2015 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 We gave him a two and a half year deal, he didn't make his debut until 2012/13. However, I'm fairly sure Mallan, Morgan and McLear all got three year deals towards the end of last season so we do hand them out. As you say, it's a gamble - for example, only a few months before McGinn got his long term deal Thomas Reilly got one. A certain someone was furious yesterday that Ian Murray was talking about Hibs, I can only imagine he'll be apopletic with rage when he finds out he's also been talking about Hearts: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/ian-murray-compares-labour-crisis-to-hearts-plight-1-3845824 Indeed they did. However, it would appear that if you're foaming at the mouth and living in La La land, then that doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyHolly9 Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hopefully we've got what we deserve for him and the board haven't just accepted peanuts like we did for Kenny. Hopefully 150k or so and a chunk should be given to IM to sort the squad ASAP Reality is bud, we got what someone was willing to pay... Had he actually been as good as we all think an English club would have taken him easily for 50K more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo_smfc Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Can you add in a sell on fee to a development fee? I wonder if the money received slightly changes things on to who IM can bring in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northendsaint Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Indeed. Gie's a signing. Gie's a solid signing who can contribute, be liked, be a cult hero, a trier, chips in with a few goals and gets his own song. Too much? We,ve got Lewis,Lewis,Lewis,Lewis Morgan on the wing,on the wing,on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Not mutual, player cant turn it down, although there is negotiation on wages based on appearances. I.e. X amount of appearances earns you X amount of average full time wage up to X amount then full time average is paid. Also at the option point, you can offer said player a new, long term better deal. There's no way any young player would agree to a deal with a one way option. Would you? If you're any good you can't leave, but if you are rubbish we are letting you go for nothing. If I was a youngsters agent I would certainly advise him to stay well away from a deal like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) There's no way any young player would agree to a deal with a one way option. Would you? If you're any good you can't leave, but if you are rubbish we are letting you go for nothing. If I was a youngsters agent I would certainly advise him to stay well away from a deal like that. Indeed. A very unfair deal for a young player. Strange that someone so vociferous about being fair to young players, with respect to contracts, would be advocating such a deal. To be fair, it certainly wouldn't be the first time he's contradicted himself; whatever pathetic alias he's posting under. Edited July 31, 2015 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabinho Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I think we've got to be realistic, McGinn and to a greater extent McLean are good players but not as good as McCarthy, McCarthur, Gauld etc. Its been proven by the quality of the clubs in for them. McGinn in my opinion will go on to become a steady Scottish Premiership player who might get really lucky and get a move to the English Championship but he's not any better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I think we've got to be realistic, McGinn and to a greater extent McLean are good players but not as good as McCarthy, McCarthur, Gauld etc. Its been proven by the quality of the clubs in for them. McGinn in my opinion will go on to become a steady Scottish Premiership player who might get really lucky and get a move to the English Championship but he's not any better than that. Think they are about the same frankly except Gauld who has always looked "meh" when ever I saw him. Put it this way is Mclean a better midfielder than Dummet is a left back? One is playing in the EPL and one in the SPL. Is that down to abiltiy or the quality of their agents/connections? Scott Allen or John McGinn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotstounSaint Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Think they are about the same frankly except Gauld who has always looked "meh" when ever I saw him. Put it this way is Mclean a better midfielder than Dummet is a left back? One is playing in the EPL and one in the SPL. Is that down to abiltiy or the quality of their agents/connections? Scott Allen or John McGinn? Ability (and pace, or lack of). Dummett is way better than McLean in my opinion. One was a guaranteed starter in our cup winning team, the other a guy who's form was so bad he didn't get off the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Ability (and pace, or lack of). Dummett is way better than McLean in my opinion. One was a guaranteed starter in our cup winning team, the other a guy who's form was so bad he didn't get off the bench. McLean was carrying an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 There's no way any young player would agree to a deal with a one way option. Would you? If you're any good you can't leave, but if you are rubbish we are letting you go for nothing. If I was a youngsters agent I would certainly advise him to stay well away from a deal like that. it is always the club that exercises the option, maybe not reasonable but if both parties can exercise it then it is not an option but a mutual obligation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Indeed. A very unfair deal for a young player. Strange that someone so vociferous about being fair to young players, with respect to contracts, would be advocating such a deal. To be fair, it certainly wouldn't be the first time he's contradicted himself; whatever pathetic alias he's posting under. I can confrirm that he does not post under any aliases, except that Lord Pityme is not his real name? So he posts under the same number of pathetic aliases as yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hardly a huge step up. Hibs weren't a premiership standard club last year, or this year, and may not be next year either. so you and the alias who liked your post agree with me Lovely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 There's no way any young player would agree to a deal with a one way option. Would you? If you're any good you can't leave, but if you are rubbish we are letting you go for nothing. If I was a youngsters agent I would certainly advise him to stay well away from a deal like that. Pray tell then how do you think a "X year contract with a X year option" works..? Because if i follow your logic then both the club or the player can decline the option? If that is so then it a straight term contract, which would make no sense to bugger around with extension options if both parties can simply decline. Any agent worth his salt will get his young player as long a deal as possible, its called a job, and most people like a bit of security in their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Fud. cup legend and sorely mistreated former employee of SMFC in many people's opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotstounSaint Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 McLean was carrying an injury. Was he? My recollection was that he had been dropped after woeful performance in February. But as you say, maybe an injury played a part in that. Anyhow, they are both the same age....... one is a sub for a team in Europe's 23rd best league. The other is the first choice left back in a team in Europe's 3rd best league (according to the UEFA rankings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I can confrirm that he does not post under any aliases, except that Lord Pityme is not his real name? So he posts under the same number of pathetic aliases as yourself. I ignored this loser months ago BOK. Its pointless trying to deal with anyone who thinks a five year deal for a young pro is somehow a bad thing! Ask Thomas Reilly if he would have signed a five year pro deal when he joined the first team squad, i know what his answer would have been. And still they don't get how Dundee United and Hamilton banked millions when selling their youngsters on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I can confrirm that he does not post under any aliases, except that Lord Pityme is not his real name? So he posts under the same number of pathetic aliases as yourself. It must be true then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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