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Should we copy Hearts?


Ronnie
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When Hearts were deducted 15 points 3 years ago they literally played whole SPL season with mostly young players Walker and Patterson spring to mind.

They understandably got a few beatings along the way but I remember they finished that season on a great run of results.

They then got the benefit of this the next season winning the league ahead of Rangers with points to spare.

Our experienced players are letting us down big time so should we keep 1 or 2 (Sutton and Irvine for example) and go with a hardcore of the Magennis,Morgan and Mcallisters for rest of the season in the hope that this will benefit us to win League 1 next year.

Now I know we have more than half a season to save our championship status but should we be realistic and start preparing for League 1 now as we have to win at least 3 more games than Dumbarton between now and end of season which would probably mean winning around 9 games out of 24 which isn't going to happen.

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When Hearts were deducted 15 points 3 years ago they literally played whole SPL season with mostly young players Walker and Patterson spring to mind.

They understandably got a few beatings along the way but I remember they finished that season on a great run of results.

They then got the benefit of this the next season winning the league ahead of Rangers with points to spare.

Our experienced players are letting us down big time so should we keep 1 or 2 (Sutton and Irvine for example) and go with a hardcore of the Magennis,Morgan and Mcallisters for rest of the season in the hope that this will benefit us to win League 1 next year.

Now I know we have more than half a season to save our championship status but should we be realistic and start preparing for League 1 now as we have to win at least 3 more games than Dumbarton between now and end of season which would probably mean winning around 9 games out of 24 which isn't going to happen.



How on earth has Sutton let us down?

You defeated your own argument with that major error.

Sutton has been a model pro. Never stopped trying. Never stopped fighting for the cause. Led by example and given his all for every minute he has been on the park.
He can hardly be blamed for others not picking up on his wonderful lay offs.
He can hardly be blamed for not scoring when not getting the service.
He can hardly be blamed for inexplicably being dropped and having to watch Clarkson toil up front alongside Shankland.

Citing Sutton as an example of an underperformer just trashes any point you were trying to make.
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How on earth has Sutton let us down?

You defeated your own argument with that major error.

Sutton has been a model pro. Never stopped trying. Never stopped fighting for the cause. Led by example and given his all for every minute he has been on the park.
He can hardly be blamed for others not picking up on his wonderful lay offs.
He can hardly be blamed for not scoring when not getting the service.
He can hardly be blamed for inexplicably being dropped and having to watch Clarkson toil up front alongside Shankland.

Citing Sutton as an example of an underperformer just trashes any point you were trying to make.


I thought he was saying to keep Sutton and Irvine.
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2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

 


How on earth has Sutton let us down?

You defeated your own argument with that major error.

Sutton has been a model pro. Never stopped trying. Never stopped fighting for the cause. Led by example and given his all for every minute he has been on the park.
He can hardly be blamed for others not picking up on his wonderful lay offs.
He can hardly be blamed for not scoring when not getting the service.
He can hardly be blamed for inexplicably being dropped and having to watch Clarkson toil up front alongside Shankland.

Citing Sutton as an example of an underperformer just trashes any point you were trying to make.

 

I think you have missed the point

He was saying ditch the experienced players apart from Sutton and Irvine

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16 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

 


How on earth has Sutton let us down?

You defeated your own argument with that major error.

Sutton has been a model pro. Never stopped trying. Never stopped fighting for the cause. Led by example and given his all for every minute he has been on the park.
He can hardly be blamed for others not picking up on his wonderful lay offs.
He can hardly be blamed for not scoring when not getting the service.
He can hardly be blamed for inexplicably being dropped and having to watch Clarkson toil up front alongside Shankland.

Citing Sutton as an example of an underperformer just trashes any point you were trying to make.

 

Thanks for that Chris's cousin. :lol:

PS Have you been on that wine again Betty?

Edited by faraway saint
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50 minutes ago, monster munch said:

I would ditch Irvine too. Positional sense is woeful and he doesn't contribute anything going forward either.

Harsh IMO. I thought Irvine was solid yesterday. In fact I couldn't offer any criticism of our defence at all, except for the keeper's howler. Naismith has been piss poor for weeks but yesterday he looked much better (although he should have scored instead of heading into the side netting).

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1 hour ago, monster munch said:

I would ditch Irvine too. Positional sense is woeful and he doesn't contribute anything going forward either.

That would be down to the fact that he is a defender ! First and foremost we need defenders to defend. I never remember Irvine ever being a particularly attacking full back, not really his thing. Ross needs to pick whoever he thinks is the best 11 regardless of age. Why would you restrict the guy further when he is already working with a squad if limited ability. People need to remember these young boys need to play in the development league so can't be playing in the first team every week or they will be ruined in jig time. They will be used where appropriate which won't be every week at this stage.

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Harsh IMO. I thought Irvine was solid yesterday. In fact I couldn't offer any criticism of our defence at all, except for the keeper's howler. Naismith has been piss poor for weeks but yesterday he looked much better (although he should have scored instead of heading into the side netting).




It's easy for the defence to look comfortable when you're at home to a part time team who sit deep. They still didn't manage a clean sheet though, and they haven't in the league all season. When at home to a part time team you're really looking for the full backs to overlap, neither Irvine or Naismith do this to any effect whatsoever and haven't all season.

We seen at Easter Road and at Cappielow how the same defence copes when a full time team attacks them: They full apart like a Chinese motorcycle.
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Think Doug maybe we should as just looked at the stats for last 3 Championship seasons and it doesn't make good reading, the 8th place had 40 points in 2014 & 37 in 2016, the season in-between was unusual as 8th, 9th and10th all had poor season finishing on 27, 27 & 25.

To be realistic then we need probably around 35-40 points to be safe.

We have 24 games left you could really discount games against Dundee Utd and Hibs as we won't beat them.

So we have 20 games to get 30+ points to be close to safe as long as Dumbarton and Dunfermline struggle too.

To get these 30+ points we really can only afford to lose maybe 6 or 7 maximum winning probably 8 or 9.

Last season we won 11 beating the bottom team Alloa 3 times, QOTS 3 times, Morton 2, Livingston 2 & Dumbarton 1.

Unfortunately for us we are the Alloa this time round really can't see where this magical turn around will come from.

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7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Think Doug maybe we should as just looked at the stats for last 3 Championship seasons and it doesn't make good reading, the 8th place had 40 points in 2014 & 37 in 2016, the season in-between was unusual as 8th, 9th and10th all had poor season finishing on 27, 27 & 25.

To be realistic then we need probably around 35-40 points to be safe.

We have 24 games left you could really discount games against Dundee Utd and Hibs as we won't beat them.

So we have 20 games to get 30+ points to be close to safe as long as Dumbarton and Dunfermline struggle too.

To get these 30+ points we really can only afford to lose maybe 6 or 7 maximum winning probably 8 or 9.

Last season we won 11 beating the bottom team Alloa 3 times, QOTS 3 times, Morton 2, Livingston 2 & Dumbarton 1.

Unfortunately for us we are the Alloa this time round really can't see where this magical turn around will come from.

Ronnie, I bet you  6th or 7th place does not get 40 points......

We have 2 leagues, QOS plummeting, Ayr, Pars, Sons and Us....

I am going off old adage here, that tings, this time have to get worse before we get better, and so it is appearing.

JR inherited this, and 4 matches in, we have 2 ok performances and 2 not so good.

20 shots against a team that plays 9 behind the ball shows we have ability. Geez I know it looks grim, but I still believe that , as long as we give 100% effort its going to turn....... that was smash and grab.

I am convinced we will take 4 points off our next 2, but even if we just take 3 we are back in this...................

 

Promotion is pretty much over though B)

 

 

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1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Please pay attention, I was answering your question. :P

Although your allegation did make it sound a lot of pish. :clapping

Faraway

Much as I enjoy your regular contributions, the use of FFS and the word pish seem to be used extremenyly often.

Do you have any constructive ideas you would like to put forward that don't include this sort of langiage and negativity?

I ask out of respect for a long standing forum member.

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28 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

 

Do you have any constructive ideas you would like to put forward that don't include this sort of langiage and negativity?

I ask out of respect for a long standing forum member.

Naw he disnae. 

And thanks for respecting me. 

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19 hours ago, Ronnie said:

When Hearts were deducted 15 points 3 years ago they literally played whole SPL season with mostly young players Walker and Patterson spring to mind.

They understandably got a few beatings along the way but I remember they finished that season on a great run of results.

They then got the benefit of this the next season winning the league ahead of Rangers with points to spare.

Our experienced players are letting us down big time so should we keep 1 or 2 (Sutton and Irvine for example) and go with a hardcore of the Magennis,Morgan and Mcallisters for rest of the season in the hope that this will benefit us to win League 1 next year.

Now I know we have more than half a season to save our championship status but should we be realistic and start preparing for League 1 now as we have to win at least 3 more games than Dumbarton between now and end of season which would probably mean winning around 9 games out of 24 which isn't going to happen.

yes put the younger players in what do we have to lose we are going down with the players that we have so give the younger players a go.

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In answer to the OP yes!

we are stuck with Ross till the summer at least so imo it makes sense to only sign/retain/promote U23's who have the desire to play for us, and who want to make a name for themselves. Any signings outside this age group should only be considered if the candidate can pass a skills matrix benchmark (i.e. Recent games, fitness, goals, current/relavent achievements etc) and that they would compliment/be better that what we currently have.

that way if we stay in the league, we will have a team of championship players next season, if we drop, we still have a team of young exciting players eager to make a name for themselves. As I said on another thread, the auld pros that know they are not going back up to the prem are and have been for a while dragging us down, add to that the attitude of some young loanees from other clubs who perhaps think they are already bigger than us?

in a league where most clubs play young sides, the auld pros are getting pummelled as they dont have the pace/stamina anymore, and the young players in the league are all trying to get a move upwards, where as the wrinklies are only going in one direction.

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1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

Faraway

Much as I enjoy your regular contributions, the use of FFS and the word pish seem to be used extremenyly often.

Do you have any constructive ideas you would like to put forward that don't include this sort of langiage and negativity?

I ask out of respect for a long standing forum member.

Away and feck yourself. Oh, and try spell check ya illiterate twat, your post has more red showing than an area of Amsterdam. :booty

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2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Faraway

Much as I enjoy your regular contributions, the use of FFS and the word pish seem to be used extremenyly often.

Do you have any constructive ideas you would like to put forward that don't include this sort of langiage and negativity?

I ask out of respect for a long standing forum member.

FFS!!!! ( :D)

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