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Our head of recruitment/chief scout Martin Christie was "senior technical scout" (according to LinkedIn) at Hibs when Stubbs was there. He was also there the season before but we'll just gloss over that!

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2 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Good luck to the guy. I read the article a few pages ago someone linked to. The one where the writer analysed his failure at Rotherham, and particularly his lack of interaction with their fans. Even in a critical article though, the writer concluded that Stubbs is at heart a thoroughly decent honest bloke, just not flamboyant like Neil Warnock was, when he was at Rotherham for a bit. The inference was that Rotherham fans were used to managers who were hyper, and Stubbs is just not like that.

The story never scared me about him. If he’s the quieter sort, should fit in here. We aren’t the sort of support who need a jumping jack flash (no reference to our last boss!), a quiet sort who does the business and gets the respect of his players will be just the ticket in Paisley town.

Again, good luck Alan Stubbs and welcome, to the Twenny Twenny Wan.

See he was followed at Rotherham by Kenny Jackett, who was given a three year contract but resigned after six games?!

As a club, they look like they were a real shitshow - although they have managed to get promoted again this season.

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Not my first choice but ticks most of the boxes when all said and done.

He's a young (46) , modern football manager who had a very decent playing career at the top level North & South of the border.

He's demonstrated his ability to work with and nurture young players during his time at Everton, which prompted Hibs to give him the job in the first place.

Inherited an absolute shambles at Hibs but recruited very well over the piece. If you actually look at the Hibs team of last season the likes of Allan, McGregor, Bartley, McGeouch and McGinn were all Stubbs signings when he was there.

Didn't get Hibs out the Championship of course which is a black mark, but two fantastic cup runs in the season they fell short in the play offs culminated in them winning the Scottish Cup of course.

Rotherham is the big black mark and the point of most concern obviously. The good thing is if he is successful with us then that stint there will put off any English teams from stealing him :D

All good for me. Let's get behind our new leader, get some new blood in and get back on our way!

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It crossed my mind last night that St Mirren haven't often brought in a manager with experience whose career has been at a higher level and is a bit on the slide. The only previous ones in my lifetime I could come up with were Davy Hay, Iain Munro, Tommy Craig and Alex Rae. 

It means nothing ofcourse except perhaps for those who believe in patterns like appointing someone from Northern Ireland cause some from there have been moderately successful. 

Edited by StuD
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It crossed my mind last night that St Mirren haven't often brought in a manager with experience whose career has been at a higher level and is a bit on the slide. The only previous ones in my lifetime I could come up with were Davy Hay, Iain Munro, Tommy Craig and Alex Rae. 
It means nothing ofcourse except perhaps for those who believe in patterns like appointing someone from Northern Ireland cause some from there have been moderately successful. 
Iain Munro 1/10 You really need to up your game

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Jack Ross no longer wanted the job, Alan Stubbs does. That is good enough for me to support his appointment.

a few folk are focusing on his previous attachments to Celtic & Hibs and thinking, lets hope he can get some players on loan. Nought wrong with that, if it is in St Mirren' interests but as well as being club captain for a while, he coached at Everton for a few years after he stopped playing. When you consider the youth that comes through Everton' ranks and go out on loan and return to go on & play for the 1st team, Finch Farm is could be a great place for Mr Stubbs to look for quality loanees.

 

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Guest TPAFKATS

I'd have preferred one of the glamour appointments that was rumoured.
Out of the by now realistic options I'm happy enough with Stubbs.
Didn't want Mcintyre /Dodds combo, the Irish guy was too much of a leap into the unknown and Caldwell gave me the fear.

Stubbs comes to us with a reputation for playing attractive enough football and developing young players.
He'll be hungry for success given his 'failure' in his previous post.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Black & White Army mobile app

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Of the four on the shortlist you can probably make equally good cases for Stubbs and McIntyre getting the job. Wouldn't have touched Caldwell and don't know enough about the Irish guy. The board's gone for Stubbs which, out of that four, is probably fine by me. It didn't go well for him at Rotherham but the likes of McInnes and Lennon had bad spells in England and it hasn't done them much harm when they've come back to Scotland. As long as he's learned from it and doesn't make the same mistakes he made there (and at Hibs) then he should be fine.

Neilson, Lambert, Goodwin and Hopkin all said no. Seemingly Mellon did too. Kluivert and Guti were unlikely to happen. McCoist would have been a disaster. Realistically who else should we have considered? There aren't any other up and coming managers in Scotland at the moment I can think of and I'd rather we didn't go for someone like Duffy or Houston.

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35 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Hibs I believe we're in the Championship then. Sometimes good players make the step up first time and some don't. 

Hibs, I believe, are a far bigger club than St. Mirren and wanted to get out of a division that included Hearts & Sevco. I'm pretty sure that they took their managerial appointment at least as seriously as we did this season!

The fact is that you were talking nonsense when you said that St. Mirren shouldn't appoint a manager with no experience and that we hadn't done so before other than Fitzpatrick and that it rarely happens at big clubs!

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11 minutes ago, zico said:

Hibs, I believe, are a far bigger club than St. Mirren and wanted to get out of a division that included Hearts & Sevco. I'm pretty sure that they took their managerial appointment at least as seriously as we did this season!

The fact is that you were talking nonsense when you said that St. Mirren shouldn't appoint a manager with no experience and that we hadn't done so before other than Fitzpatrick and that it rarely happens at big clubs!

Why is my view that we shouldn't appoint a manager with no experience at all talking nonsense? How many in our top league hired a manger with no experience? The old firm have done it with Brady, Lennon and Gerard but they had/have the finances to cover deficiencies.  We could not risk taking a gamble on an inexperienced man when we need to bring in the right players and stabilise/establish the club in the top league.  I would end by asking you to give me examples of where clubs in the premiere league hired rookie managers? It does rarely happen and most clubs simply would not risk it.

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11 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Why is my view that we shouldn't appoint a manager with no experience at all talking nonsense? How many in our top league hired a manger with no experience? The old firm have done it with Brady, Lennon and Gerard but they had/have the finances to cover deficiencies.  We could not risk taking a gamble on an inexperienced man when we need to bring in the right players and stabilise/establish the club in the top league.  I would end by asking you to give me examples of where clubs in the premiere league hired rookie managers? It does rarely happen and most clubs simply would not risk it.

McCann at Dundee and Canning at Hamilton spring to mind, also Ross County did it with Kettlewell towards the end of last season to try and keep them up

Killie with McCulloch and Hearts with Cathro two examples where it didn't go well

 

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3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

We picked up a few thumpings last season yet JR won the MotY award and was considered by a couple of substantially bigger clubs before getting the Sunderland job. By your.

2014/15 was a tougher Championship yet Dumbarton remained the best p/t team in the country so presumably they had a few decent results as well. 

Some statistics are more relevant than others!

 

20 league defeats out of 36 games was the record for Murray in his second season at Dumbarton. the season Jack Ross left as his assistant and went to Hearts youth academy. 9 wins out of 36 league games... and our board thought he's the man to take us forward (he gives a good interview).

Here's that Dumbarton season month by month in the league:

August: 3 defeats and 1 win (Livingston - the season they had 5 points deducted for financial irregularities)... scoring 3 and conceding 11 (Raith and Queen of the South both score 3 or 4 goals against them as do the comedy version of Sevco).

September: 2 draws (Hearts and Falkirk) and 1 win (Alloa)

October: 2 draws (Cowdenbeath & Hibs), 2 defeats (Hearts 5-1;  Sevco 0-3) 1 goal scored all month and 8 conceded

November: 2 defeats (3-0 QOTS; 3-6 Hibs) and 1 victory (2-1 against Livingston) - 5 goals scored 10 conceded

December:  along with March this was their best month in the season - 3 wins (Alloa 0-1; Raith 2-1; and Cowdenbeath 1-3) and 1 defeat (Falkirk 0-3) 6 goals scored 5 conceded

January: 4 defeats in a row (Sevco  3-1; Hearts 1-5; Raith 2-1; Livingston 1-5) and 1 draw (Falkirk 3-3) 7 goals scored, 13 conceded  .The next win comes at the start of March.

February:  2 defeats (Cowdenbeath 1-2 &  Hibs 3-0) and 1 draw (QOTS 0-0) 1 goal scored all month and 5 conceded

March: 3 wins (Alloa 1-0; Livingston 1-2;  Falkirk 1-0) and I defeat (Hearts 4-0) 4 goals scored, 5 goals conceded

April:  5 defeats in a row (Cowdenbeath 3-0; Hibs 1-2; Alloa 3-0; Sevco Comedy Xi 1-3; QOTS 2-1)

May: 1 draw (Raith 2-2)

Summary of the season: In almost 1/3 of games Dumbarton failed to score a goal in a league where half the teams had part-time players (Cowdenbeath; Alloa; Livingston; Raith as well as Dumbarton themselves).  7 of their 9 league wins were by a 1 goal margin. Dumbarton were the only team in the league to lose all 4 league games to the Sevco Comedy XI that season. 56% of all league games ended in defeat.  Dumbarton conceded 79 goals in 36 league games and we paid out compensation to Dumbarton and unveiled Ian Murray as someone who had over-achieved on a small budget in the Championship. One look at their results that season show we had made a huge mistake.

 

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3 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

20 league defeats out of 36 games was the record for Murray in his second season at Dumbarton. the season Jack Ross left as his assistant and went to Hearts youth academy. 9 wins out of 36 league games... and our board thought he's the man to take us forward (he gives a good interview).

Here's that Dumbarton season month by month in the league:

August: 3 defeats and 1 win (Livingston - the season they had 5 points deducted for financial irregularities)... scoring 3 and conceding 11 (Raith and Queen of the South both score 3 or 4 goals against them as do the comedy version of Sevco).

September: 2 draws (Hearts and Falkirk) and 1 win (Alloa)

October: 2 draws (Cowdenbeath & Hibs), 2 defeats (Hearts 5-1;  Sevco 0-3) 1 goal scored all month and 8 conceded

November: 2 defeats (3-0 QOTS; 3-6 Hibs) and 1 victory (2-1 against Livingston) - 5 goals scored 10 conceded

December:  along with March this was their best month in the season - 3 wins (Alloa 0-1; Raith 2-1; and Cowdenbeath 1-3) and 1 defeat (Falkirk 0-3) 6 goals scored 5 conceded

January: 4 defeats in a row (Sevco  3-1; Hearts 1-5; Raith 2-1; Livingston 1-5) and 1 draw (Falkirk 3-3) 7 goals scored, 13 conceded  .The next win comes at the start of March.

February:  2 defeats (Cowdenbeath 1-2 &  Hibs 3-0) and 1 draw (QOTS 0-0) 1 goal scored all month and 5 conceded

March: 3 wins (Alloa 1-0; Livingston 1-2;  Falkirk 1-0) and I defeat (Hearts 4-0) 4 goals scored, 5 goals conceded

April:  5 defeats in a row (Cowdenbeath 3-0; Hibs 1-2; Alloa 3-0; Sevco Comedy Xi 1-3; QOTS 2-1)

May: 1 draw (Raith 2-2)

Summary of the season: In almost 1/3 of games Dumbarton failed to score a goal in a league where half the teams had part-time players (Cowdenbeath; Alloa; Livingston; Raith as well as Dumbarton themselves).  7 of their 9 league wins were by a 1 goal margin. Dumbarton were the only team in the league to lose all 4 league games to the Sevco Comedy XI that season. 56% of all league games ended in defeat.  Dumbarton conceded 79 goals in 36 league games and we paid out compensation to Dumbarton and unveiled Ian Murray as someone who had over-achieved on a small budget in the Championship. One look at their results that season show we had made a huge mistake.

 

That's some dedication to prove a point about a manager that left us 2-3 years ago and most generally don't particularly care about

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53 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Why is my view that we shouldn't appoint a manager with no experience at all talking nonsense? How many in our top league hired a manger with no experience? The old firm have done it with Brady, Lennon and Gerard but they had/have the finances to cover deficiencies.  We could not risk taking a gamble on an inexperienced man when we need to bring in the right players and stabilise/establish the club in the top league.  I would end by asking you to give me examples of where clubs in the premiere league hired rookie managers? It does rarely happen and most clubs simply would not risk it.

I gave you examples earlier!

For a start, Alan Stubbs was a rookie manager with Hibs. They were one of Scotland's big 5, trying to get out a division that contained Hearts & Sevco!

Rangers appointed Souness, Walter Smith, Ally McCoist. Celtic appointed Lennon & Brady.

St. Mirren gave the job to Clunie, McFarlane, Alex Miller (with 2 months experience) & Fitzpatrick.

Outside of the Old Firm there have been...

Paul Lambert (Livingston), Tony Mowbray (Hibs), Billy Davies (Motherwell), Eric Black (Motherwell), John Collins (Hibs), Neil McCann (Dundee), Simon Stainrod (Dundee), Martin Canning (Hamilton), Lee McCulloch (Kilmarnock), Bobby Williamson (Kilmarnock), Gary Locke (Hearts), Gerry Britton & Derek Whyte (Partick Thistle), Craig Brewster (Inverness), Stuart Kettlewell & Steven Ferguson (Ross County), Billy Kirkwood (Dundee United), Gordon Chisholm (Dundee United), Peter Houston (Dundee United), Eddie May (Falkirk), Steven Pressley (Falkirk), Willie Miller (Aberdeen), Roy Aitken (Aberdeen), Ian Cathro (Hearts).

I make that 32. Is that enough?

 

Edited by zico
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14 hours ago, pozbaird said:

It really doesn’t matter any more if as individual fans, we wanted McIntyre, Goodwin, Micky, or Jose Mourinho.

What matters is that Stubbs got it, so we get behind him, his team, and the BoD who will be as keen as anyone for this appointment to work. It’s going to be hard enough going up to a top flight containing Sellik, Sevco, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and and improving Killie.

It’ll be near impossible if we don’t get behind Alan Stubbs and his team. Let the opposition fans hand out abuse, let’s not start beating ourselves up from within.

Aye! And see if he does a good job, can all the doubters try not to spend the next two years nit picking to try and maintain their current view coz they don't want to admit they were wrong. Being wrong now doesnae make you a bad person. Not being able to admit later does.

On the other hand, if he's a pile of steaming keech, gloat away.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Of the four on the shortlist you can probably make equally good cases for Stubbs and McIntyre getting the job. Wouldn't have touched Caldwell and don't know enough about the Irish guy. The board's gone for Stubbs which, out of that four, is probably fine by me. It didn't go well for him at Rotherham but the likes of McInnes and Lennon had bad spells in England and it hasn't done them much harm when they've come back to Scotland. As long as he's learned from it and doesn't make the same mistakes he made there (and at Hibs) then he should be fine.
Neilson, Lambert, Goodwin and Hopkin all said no. Seemingly Mellon did too. Kluivert and Guti were unlikely to happen. McCoist would have been a disaster. Realistically who else should we have considered? There aren't any other up and coming managers in Scotland at the moment I can think of and I'd rather we didn't go for someone like Duffy or Houston.
Far too sensible a post for this forum

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28 minutes ago, foxbar_bud said:

That's some dedication to prove a point about a manager that left us 2-3 years ago and most generally don't particularly care about

 I wouldn't have bothered making the post if it was about proving a point about Ian Murray. The point I was making was about doing your homework on ANY candidate. One look at Murray's stats in his second full season at Dumbarton showed he was going backwards and wasn't the miracle-worker he was being made out to be.

As for Stubbs...  I think he did OK when you look at his record at Hibs. He was around for the toughest Championship seasons so failing to get them automatically promoted isn't a heinous crime and his record against premiership clubs in the cups showed he could have them competitive in the premiership had he stayed and got them promoted. Hibs are probably the 5th biggest club in Scotland so you'd kind of expect them to be finishing top 6 in the premiership or thereabouts based on budget and attendances, and in a Championship with Hearts and Rangers International you'd expect them to be in the play offs. He signed some good players during his time at Hibs (eg the only club that wanted to sign an out of contractJohnMcGinn for buttons) whether or not he brought through many homegrown young players despite his credentials with Everton's academy is unknown.. Other good signsfrom his time at Hibs, they played attractive football and had a decent win ratio in the championship on a budget that dwarfed ours.

Like anyone else I hope he does a good turn and signs a few decent players over the summer and has us playing well and has us doing well around the mid-table mark next season... it would be nice to be comfortably ahead of Hamilton and Livingston and if Dundee start slowly I can see the pressure building on Neil McCann.

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Also on the topic of doing homework on any candidate... Tommy Craig! Ages with Arsene Wenger but our old board didn't seem to bother that he hadn't even won even a handful of games in his time as a caretaker boss and as manager of Charleroi, or ask why no other clubs in the UK had ever promoted him from his role as a coach / assistant manager!

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2 hours ago, Stu said:

Of the four on the shortlist you can probably make equally good cases for Stubbs and McIntyre getting the job. Wouldn't have touched Caldwell and don't know enough about the Irish guy. The board's gone for Stubbs which, out of that four, is probably fine by me. It didn't go well for him at Rotherham but the likes of McInnes and Lennon had bad spells in England and it hasn't done them much harm when they've come back to Scotland. As long as he's learned from it and doesn't make the same mistakes he made there (and at Hibs) then he should be fine.

Neilson, Lambert, Goodwin and Hopkin all said no. Seemingly Mellon did too. Kluivert and Guti were unlikely to happen. McCoist would have been a disaster. Realistically who else should we have considered? There aren't any other up and coming managers in Scotland at the moment I can think of and I'd rather we didn't go for someone like Duffy or Houston.

In regard to ‘who else’, I wondered if Austin MacPhee at Hearts might have thought about applying. Maybe he’s happy to be behind the scenes.

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