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Isle Of Bute Saint

Red Card Yesterday

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7 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Don't agree with that mate. Lyons was trying to go round the right hand side of the defender. Before Lyons can do that both him and the defender collide TV shows both players had contact with each other.. Lyons did not dive. 

What was he trying to do.......fly round the defender?

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26 minutes ago, HSS said:

Agree with that but Brad goes down before there is any contact.

 

how many times, when you were playing football, did you change your position or direction once you knew a collision was unavoidable, or take some other action that avoided you losing some teeth?

Lyons could easily argue that the Alloa player made the collision unavoidable, this means any action he takes to avoid or mitigate the event is acceptable.  He doesn't need to hurt or be hurt to avoid getting sent off

it used to be that if you were booked for a foul you were at risk of being dispatched if you made any other tackles.  Now, it seems, if you get booked for simulation then you are at risk of a red every time you GET tackled.

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What was he trying to do.......fly round the defender?

He was trying to make sure he got the free kick which he was due for obstruction.

He certainly isn’t the 1st one to do that and won’t be the last player to fall down to the ground when he could have stayed on his feet but it’s still obstruction doesn’t matter if he done 10 somersaults after its still a foul.

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3 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

how many times, when you were playing football, did you change your position or direction once you knew a collision was unavoidable, or take some other action that avoided you losing some teeth?

Lyons could easily argue that the Alloa player made the collision unavoidable, this means any action he takes to avoid or mitigate the event is acceptable.  He doesn't need to hurt or be hurt to avoid getting sent off

it used to be that if you were booked for a foul you were at risk of being dispatched if you made any other tackles.  Now, it seems, if you get booked for simulation then you are at risk of a red every time you GET tackled.

So you are in agreement then that he goes down with no contact being made?

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What “obstruction”?  The Alloa player had every right to stand anywhere he wanted, it’s the attackers job to get round the defender. A defender is never obliged to get out of the way of an oncoming attacker (although I can think of plenty Saints defenders who have done that in the past).

Lyons was running forward at speed, he then collided with the Alloa defender. No offence committed by either party but the sort of thing that normally results in a free kick against the attacking player. Definitely not a yellow card. 

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5 minutes ago, HSS said:

So you are in agreement then that he goes down with no contact being made?

Yes,, the other option is accepting the collision and hurting the other player or being hurt himself.  Bottom line is that the obstruction has already taken place and had it's effect.

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2 minutes ago, doonhamer said:

What “obstruction”?  The Alloa player had every right to stand anywhere he wanted, it’s the attackers job to get round the defender. A defender is never obliged to get out of the way of an oncoming attacker (although I can think of plenty Saints defenders who have done that in the past).

Lyons was running forward at speed, he then collided with the Alloa defender. No offence committed by either party but the sort of thing that normally results in a free kick against the attacking player. Definitely not a yellow card. 

you need to make an attempt to play the ball, not force the collision and wait to see who the ball plays favourably for.  Deliberately getting in the way without intending to play the ball is obstruction.

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1 minute ago, doonhamer said:

What “obstruction”?  The Alloa player had every right to stand anywhere he wanted, it’s the attackers job to get round the defender. A defender is never obliged to get out of the way of an oncoming attacker (although I can think of plenty Saints defenders who have done that in the past).

Lyons was running forward at speed, he then collided with the Alloa defender. No offence committed by either party but the sort of thing that normally results in a free kick against the attacking player. Definitely not a yellow card. 

Correct, Lyons should have been waved up and the match played on.

It's not a foul. Crucially though, not all instances where a player goes down are fouls....not all instances where a player goes down and there's no foul are dives.

It's a very narrow viewpoint to take that if he wasn't fouled, he dived. He's anticipated being blocked off and went down. Staying on his feet would have potentially been more painful so I can see why he did it. It was in a nothing area of the park and if this is going to be deemed a bookable offence, then we're going to see a lot more in future.

Funnily enough, I don't see it happening. An Alloa player did the EXACT same thing in the box yesterday at 2-0 where the St. Mirren player won the ball but a bit of contact was made....the Alloa player was waved up by the ref....how does that work?

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Watch Harry Kane. He has the art of getting decisions down to a fine art. Lyons was hard done to yesterday. 9 times out of ten it would have been a foul to the attacker with no card. Lyons was unlucky the ref was so bad. Never a booking in my opinion. 

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Contact is made when Brad collides with the defender.

So you have now changed you mind the defender didn’t move his right should into brad.

“Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.”

Copied from fa rules the defender clearly moves into brads path as he turns his right shoulder into him on the replays.

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Glad this has been brought up. I thought it looked like he was going down before any contact was made, but told myself I was overthinking it. I’m still 50/50 either way tbh, it’s a very hard one IMO. I can see why the second yellow was given as the ref had one chance to see it. I imagine OK will be discussing with Lyons to get the true events before deciding on an appeal. There’s definite contact but it’s a question of whether Brad started going down beforehand.

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43 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Don't agree with that mate. Lyons was trying to go round the right hand side of the defender. Before Lyons can do that both him and the defender collide TV shows both players had contact with each other.. Lyons did not dive. 

Indeed.

He plays the ball at an angle past the defender, and his run follows that angle, meaning that he only actually ran into the side of the player as he tried to get past him.

IMO if you look closely, frame by frame, his feet only come off the ground when he hits the defender.

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No point appealing it was a dive he clearly throws himself in front of the Alloa player in anticipation of getting tackled hate to say it but the referee got it right on this one. 

What would it take for you to backed the Saints player since you seem to be a St.Mirren fan 🤣

 

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I've watched the incident a few times now and can see why he was sent off.
Brad is running towards the defender and throws himself into him.There is absolutely no contact to make him fall,the defender is static and Brad throws himself into him.
Take the Black and White specs off,watch again and tell me what it is that causes Brad to go down.Maybe he tripped over a blade of grass.:rolleyes:
 
It's obstruction at best. If that's a yellow then we will be playing 5 a side every week in every game. Shocking decision.

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1 hour ago, TediousTom said:

Unfortunately I was unable to make it to the game, problems that cometh with age.

 

Anyway I managed to watch the game on an illegal firestick in a social club that I shall not name.  It is a very short walk from my house and has no stairs so that I could do...good news is I shall be fit for our next match!!!!  The illegal firestick need not be deployed on my behalf again and I anticipate it shall be used for old firm games and blue movies in future as I wont be requesting its use.

 

First time I had ever watched St Mirren TV.  Now to get to the point...........the quality was bloody awful, the constant shaking of the camera and distortion of the out of focus images started to make my head hurt.  You could not tell who the players were and if the ball moved quickly you actually missed  some of the action.  

 

So after all that......I am still to get to the point so....the images were so poor that you could not see the incident in sufficient detail.  I was left wondering why a player would dive so far from goal but I could make out that the referee was in a good position.  I was not even sure who the player was!!  Still a pretty weak sending off though, the referee could easily have given him a warning in lieu of either of the cards.    Strange watching an incident on TV and being somewhat less informed by those who attended the game. 

 

 

 

 

Told you before Tom its not a social club, its a Care Home..  :moony2

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1 hour ago, buddies1877 said:


You have already agreed that contact was made emoji23.png

Show me where I said contact was made?

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23 minutes ago, santaponsasaint said:
2 hours ago, HSS said:
I've watched the incident a few times now and can see why he was sent off.
Brad is running towards the defender and throws himself into him.There is absolutely no contact to make him fall,the defender is static and Brad throws himself into him.
Take the Black and White specs off,watch again and tell me what it is that causes Brad to go down.Maybe he tripped over a blade of grass.:rolleyes:
 

It's obstruction at best. If that's a yellow then we will be playing 5 a side every week in every game. Shocking decision.

If a team goes down to less than 7 players the game's abandoned.:rolleyes:

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