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12 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Another day of recorded deaths well into the 100s for the UK. Very, very worrying, especially when you look at the increasing trend. And to think some people would be comfortable with just getting big parts of life back to normal. :(

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread 

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Todays highlights from Sturgeon:

- Warns that pubs and restaurants will not return to normal later this month

- New rules will introduced on wearing of face coverings in workplace canteens and corridors

- Possible travel ban similar to that proposed by Wales is under active consideration

In England more places are moving to tier 2 as well and whispers Manchester could be next place to go tier 3 (no decision made yet).

Lockdown 2 is becoming more and more likely by the day IMO. 

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With the new rule on the wearing of face masks at workplace and canteens, assume we can now expect to see all MSP wearing them when walking about parliament [emoji40]
Only in the corridor, not at their place of work ie desk. [emoji6]

PS, my place of work started it on Monday in preparation of the announcement. [emoji40]
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6 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Another day of recorded deaths well into the 100s for the UK. Very, very worrying, especially when you look at the increasing trend. And to think some people would be comfortable with just getting big parts of life back to normal. :(

People are also dying as a result of the ongoing mental health issues, magnified having their businesses and livelihoods snatched away at a moment's notice.

The fallout of the mental health crisis in this country for the next 20-30 years will make Covid look like a f**king walk in the park.

I'd have no issues with further restrictions if they were a means to an end....anything other than 'oh we'll shut down for a few weeks and see where we are then'. This is what it realistically amounts to just now. There is no end, just kicking the can down the road a bit.

 

What's the plan? How are they going to get out of this cycle in the absence of a vaccine? The 'world class track and trace system'? That was some laugh!!!

The government on both sides of the border have completely f**ked this up. They've had 7 months to come up with a strategy to live through and around this, have turned up nothing and now just resort to more lockdowns.

Edited by djchapsticks
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13 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

People are also dying as a result of the ongoing mental health issues, magnified having their businesses and livelihoods snatched away at a moment's notice.

The fallout of the mental health crisis in this country for the next 20-30 years will make Covid look like a f**king walk in the park.

I'd have no issues with further restrictions if they were a means to an end....anything other than 'oh we'll shut down for a few weeks and see where we are then'. This is what it realistically amounts to just now. There is no end, just kicking the can down the road a bit.

 

What's the plan? How are they going to get out of this cycle in the absence of a vaccine? The 'world class track and trace system'? That was some laugh!!!

The government on both sides of the border have completely f**ked this up. They've had 7 months to come up with a strategy to live through and around this, have turned up nothing and now just resort to more lockdowns.

I know, it's very sad. It's a horrible time right now. No one is claiming there is a catch all solution (Oakster actually took credit for apparently making me aware of this lol) but that doesn't mean we go back to normal, write off many thousands (possibly even more) of our most physically vulnerable and potentially overwhelm our NHS. 

I don't fully agree that mental health issues over 20-30 years related to Covid19 will be worse than the death we have and will see regarding the actual illness. Couple that with the long-term health problems Covid19 survivors can have, I doubt the best solution for the majority regarding mental health is to let things get back to some sort of normal. For me a lot of this is political, there is far more the government could do for people regarding their working life and mental health, choosing not to do so, isn't an argument to change the Covid19 response & let people die. 

Vaccinations are likely the most viable solution, not having one in October 2020 doesn't mean we stop restrictions to curb people dying. Almost like saying "times up" now is far, far too early IMO but other peoples time period on when the elderly and physically vulnerable become expendable will differ. 6-8 months? For me, no chance. 

The plan if it was up to me is touched on above. Let's wait and see if there's a vaccine, we've had several communications from world leaders and the likes over the months that a vaccine isn't far away, let's not press the nuclear button in October 2020 ffs. If we don't have a vaccine or any sign of one in 1 to 2 years, different conversations will have to be had regarding future state. Right now we can afford to keep restrictions in play, curb the virus, save lives and work on the future. The proof for this is it's literally what we are doing. All the while let's make political decisions to support mental health the best we can and decisions to support businesses and peoples livelihoods

I wouldn't say the governments have f***** it up completely (lessons learned absolutely), look at the situation globally, practically all population dense developed countries with the rates of travel, multi-generational households, etc the UK has, have seen similar. There is no catch-all solution. I see your point here as a wee bit contradictory, with all the lockdown and measures taken over the last seven or so months, what more could we have done? (I personally think a lot) Surely anything over and above would have had even more impact on mental health in contrast to one of your initial concerns? Can't have your cake and eat it too. 

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32 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

People are also dying as a result of the ongoing mental health issues, magnified having their businesses and livelihoods snatched away at a moment's notice.

The fallout of the mental health crisis in this country for the next 20-30 years will make Covid look like a f**king walk in the park.

I'd have no issues with further restrictions if they were a means to an end....anything other than 'oh we'll shut down for a few weeks and see where we are then'. This is what it realistically amounts to just now. There is no end, just kicking the can down the road a bit.

 

What's the plan? How are they going to get out of this cycle in the absence of a vaccine? The 'world class track and trace system'? That was some laugh!!!

The government on both sides of the border have completely f**ked this up. They've had 7 months to come up with a strategy to live through and around this, have turned up nothing and now just resort to more lockdowns.

The plan I think is to spread deaths out over a longer period of time. I read today that one of the scientists on from SAGE is saying that lockdown or the ridiculously named "circuit breaker" won't save lives at all. It'll just spread deaths out a bit over time.

Right at the start of this, plenty of scientists warned that going into any form of lockdown would mean we could never come out of it again because the virus would just flare up again and that is precisely what is happening. There are credible scientists who believe we will never be able to get back to any form of normal again but I think politicians won't allow that to happen. At some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and let this thing run its course and we royally f**ked up by not allowing that to happen during the summer when our hospitals were empty. Now we're seeing cases rising during the normal flu season and politicians need to answer for that bout of stupidity.

I've given up trying to predict what these idiots are going to do next. My best guess would be that they'll have us shackled until next summer but who knows.

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8 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Another day of recorded deaths well into the 100s for the UK. Very, very worrying, especially when you look at the increasing trend. And to think some people would be comfortable with just getting big parts of life back to normal. :(

Read what it actually said. It's the number of people dying OF ANYTHING if they had been tested positive in the previous 28 days. If you get knocked down on the way home after you've hibernated for the fourteen days, you're counted.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

The plan I think is to spread deaths out over a longer period of time. I read today that one of the scientists on from SAGE is saying that lockdown or the ridiculously named "circuit breaker" won't save lives at all. It'll just spread deaths out a bit over time.

Right at the start of this, plenty of scientists warned that going into any form of lockdown would mean we could never come out of it again because the virus would just flare up again and that is precisely what is happening. There are credible scientists who believe we will never be able to get back to any form of normal again but I think politicians won't allow that to happen. At some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and let this thing run its course and we royally f**ked up by not allowing that to happen during the summer when our hospitals were empty. Now we're seeing cases rising during the normal flu season and politicians need to answer for that bout of stupidity.

I've given up trying to predict what these idiots are going to do next. My best guess would be that they'll have us shackled until next summer but who knows.

Same.

Absolutely sick fed up with the up's and downs, the seemingly daily changes and mainly down to thousands of knob jockeys who don't give a feck about the economy or other people. 

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14 hours ago, stlucifer said:

Read what it actually said. It's the number of people dying OF ANYTHING if they had been tested positive in the previous 28 days. If you get knocked down on the way home after you've hibernated for the fourteen days, you're counted.

But that isn't going to be very many is it?

The majority of people in the statistics are those where Covid19 has contributed and hastened death. That's why we are seeing deaths rising, it's not just that around 10 times more people (than say August/ early September) are getting knocked down while they happen to have Covid19. 

Edited by bazil85
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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

But that isn't going to be very many is it?

The majority of people in the statistics are those where Covid19 has contributed and hastened death. That's why we are seeing deaths rising, it's not just that around 10 times more people (than say August/ early September) are getting knocked down while they happen to have Covid19. 

How many is this "not very many" and how do you know this?

Apart from road traffic accidents there's other ways people die, how many are added to the number to keep you happy? 

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