Fao The Board - Lennon Must Go Threads - Merged

[Lizard King]

So, folks, aren't we a bit off topic?...

I was convinced DL would be sacked after Thistle tore us a new one at home - but no, a vote of confidence from the BOD followed by excuses and lots of talking in the 3rd person by our bewildered/ing boss.

Then, another home game v Motherwell - another defeat, a gutless, clueless performance and another utterly desperate post-match interview from the boss. However, leaving the stadium the anger from the week before had been replaced by an overwhelming air of inevitability that the end had come and this week would bring change...we could all relax.

4 days later, he's still in charge and by all accounts, he's now got 1 more game to save his skin. Will we still be saying that after Hibs (inevitably) fire 4 past us?

It's all went so quiet...

[Lizard King]

Perhaps the current BoD do not wish to make any changes to management personnel if the sale of the club is in an advanced state.

Given the rumours circling about you may well have a point...

[E=Mc2]

I don't agree, I believe the ref makes the call and the linesman won't undermine him unless he is asked for his opinion.

The ref gave the penalty straight away, the linesman would think that the ref was certain it was a penalty, what was he to do. Undermine him by saying in his opinion it was outside the box or wait until he is asked his opinion. The officials need to work as a team, the last thing they need to do is argue with each other. If the ref was adamant that it was a penalty then the linesman needs to support the refs decision. If the ref is unsure then he can consult with the linesman.

Not sure what the fuss is about everyone bar Vambo agrees they eventually got the decision correct.

I understand the "if the ref is unsure then he can consult", but my point of criticism of the referee is that that they always trot out the claim "they only call what they see" and if they are not sure "they don't make the call".

What this referee has now inferred by him changing his decision is "I didn't see where the player was fouled. I assumed he was fouled inside the box, but if you badger me enough I will approach the linesman who, by his actions, has agreed with me, and I'll ask what he saw"

Did the linesman say to the referee "you were wrong it was outside". The linesman must have said these words or similar, or the decision could not be overturned.

The referee, by overturning his own decision, has now given the green light for all decisions that players contest must result in a consultation with another official. The referee cannot say to players "the linesman has taken up the position for a penalty, go away."

All players must now believe that the referee may not have fully seen any incident and therefore let's question the decision. Not what the authorities wish to see.

For the player not to be booked, or, in my opinion sent off, was disgraceful. When the Motherwell player turned to the referee immediately after having committed the foul and pointed where he had committed the foul was tantamount to him saying "you can't give a penalty ref as I deliberately brought him down here outside the box as he was clean through and about to have a goal scoring opportunity".

[barney]

Given the rumours circling about you may well have a point...

What are the rumours? Re results this season, before we kicked a ball we could all see the team had no balance to it and was very poorly constructed, however results are actually much worst than i feared. It's a real mess and one that's 100% down to the management team.

[stlucifer]

I don't agree, I believe the ref makes the call and the linesman won't undermine him unless he is asked for his opinion.

The ref gave the penalty straight away, the linesman would think that the ref was certain it was a penalty, what was he to do. Undermine him by saying in his opinion it was outside the box or wait until he is asked his opinion. The officials need to work as a team, the last thing they need to do is argue with each other. If the ref was adamant that it was a penalty then the linesman needs to support the refs decision. If the ref is unsure then he can consult with the linesman.

Not sure what the fuss is about everyone bar Vambo agrees they eventually got the decision correct.

Don't you think the whole reason for radio communication is to prevent the outward appearance of "undermining"? They are in CONSTANT communication and, as such, IF the assistant believes a wrong call has been made, he can indicate his perception and privately tell the ref his view on proceedings. This clearly isn't what happened in this instance. The linesman isn't there to rubberstamp every refereeing decision. He is there to, wait for it, ASSIST the referee as an extra pair of eyes.

the referee isn't likey to go in the huff, pick the ball up, and say, "Am no playin'. It's ma baw!" FFS.

The issue isn't whether or not the penaltyy call was correct. It is all about WHO eventually made the call. The referee or, effectively, the mob who surrounded him.

Edited September 18, 2013 by stlucifer

[Kendo]

Don't you think the whole reason for radio communication is to prevent the outward appearance of "undermining"? They are in CONSTANT communication and, as such, IF the assistant believes a wrong call has been made, he can indicate his perception and privately tell the ref his view on proceedings. This clearly isn't what happened in this instance. The linesman isn't there to rubberstamp every refereeing decision. He is there to, wait for it, ASSIST the referee as an extra pair of eyes.

the referee isn't likey to go in the huff, pick the ball up, and say, "Am no playin'. It's ma baw!" FFS.

The issue isn't whether or not the penaltyy call was correct. It is all about WHO eventually made the call. The referee or, effectively, the mob who surrounded him.

And there was me thinking that the whole object was to get the decision correct.

Does it matter who said what to who when. We don't know what the ref and linesman said to each other, all we know is that the ref gave the penalty. Was surrounded by Motherwell players, he decides to consult the linesman who perhaps was telling through his mike that he thought it was outside the box. After speaking to him they got the decision correct. Not being miked up means we don't know what the ref was being told. Perhaps the linesman told him from the start he thought it was outside the box.

I can't for the life of me see what all the fuss is about.

[Chris]

What if I were to tell you that Saints have made worse starts and not been relegated, would you deny that fact?

Is that our target then, avoiding relegation? Really scraping the barrel now. For me, he has to win the next two games or be sacked. One win in isolation is not enough - having only won a couple of league games in 2013, the odds are that we will win one sooner or later. It's a poor league with a bunch of teams who are all much of a muchness, and we have a bunch of players who are more than good enough to be winning games in the league, even if we have no balance to the team and some huge holes. Winning the next game addresses none of the glaring problems.

[Kendo]

I understand the "if the ref is unsure then he can consult", but my point of criticism of the referee is that that they always trot out the claim "they only call what they see" and if they are not sure "they don't make the call".

What this referee has now inferred by him changing his decision is "I didn't see where the player was fouled. I assumed he was fouled inside the box, but if you badger me enough I will approach the linesman who, by his actions, has agreed with me, and I'll ask what he saw"

Did the linesman say to the referee "you were wrong it was outside". The linesman must have said these words or similar, or the decision could not be overturned.

The referee, by overturning his own decision, has now given the green light for all decisions that players contest must result in a consultation with another official. The referee cannot say to players "the linesman has taken up the position for a penalty, go away."

All players must now believe that the referee may not have fully seen any incident and therefore let's question the decision. Not what the authorities wish to see.

For the player not to be booked, or, in my opinion sent off, was disgraceful. When the Motherwell player turned to the referee immediately after having committed the foul and pointed where he had committed the foul was tantamount to him saying "you can't give a penalty ref as I deliberately brought him down here outside the box as he was clean through and about to have a goal scoring opportunity".

As said previously we don't know what was said.

[Highland Saint]

So, folks, aren't we a bit off topic?...

I was convinced DL would be sacked after Thistle tore us a new one at home - but no, a vote of confidence from the BOD followed by excuses and lots of talking in the 3rd person by our bewildered/ing boss.

Then, another home game v Motherwell - another defeat, a gutless, clueless performance and another utterly desperate post-match interview from the boss. However, leaving the stadium the anger from the week before had been replaced by an overwhelming air of inevitability that the end had come and this week would bring change...we could all relax.

4 days later, he's still in charge and by all accounts, he's now got 1 more game to save his skin. Will we still be saying that after Hibs (inevitably) fire 4 past us?

It's all went so quiet...

No we won't - unless we get something on Saturday change will come.

DL has tried to work with a new formation in the close season and its proven to be b*llocks. He seems to be changing things again, but at this stage confidence is so low in the team I don't think it will make much difference. The team have forgotten what its like to win in the league and the pressure eminating from the stands is clearly resulting in nerves in the players.

I like the boss and have been desperate for him to turn it around but unless we get a serious dose of luck on Saturday then I can't see it.

But, I will be there and refraining from negativity, which isn't easy given what we have seen this season, but certainly doesn't help things. I also acknowledge that the players simply havent performed either this season and its not all the Boss' fault. I am convinced if we were in April and battling for SPL survival they would dig a bit deeper - as they have done before - but currently seem happy for 100% criticism to be directed at DL.

[stlucifer]

No we won't - unless we get something on Saturday change will come.

DL has tried to work with a new formation in the close season and its proven to be b*llocks. He seems to be changing things again, but at this stage confidence is so low in the team I don't think it will make much difference. The team have forgotten what its like to win in the league and the pressure eminating from the stands is clearly resulting in nerves in the players.

I like the boss and have been desperate for him to turn it around but unless we get a serious dose of luck on Saturday then I can't see it.

But, I will be there and refraining from negativity, which isn't easy given what we have seen this season, but certainly doesn't help things. I also acknowledge that the players simply havent performed either this season and its not all the Boss' fault. I am convinced if we were in April and battling for SPL survival they would dig a bit deeper - as they have done before - but currently seem happy for 100% criticism to be directed at DL.

As far as nerves eminating from the stand is concerned, this game is the best chance to see if the new formation works. An away game where it's mostly the vocal and loyal attending should lend itself to reduced nerves. An early goal and a bounce in the step is what I would hope for.

[pod]

As far as nerves eminating from the stand is concerned, this game is the best chance to see if the new formation works. An away game where it's mostly the vocal and loyal attending should lend itself to reduced nerves. An early goal and a bounce in the step is what I would hope for.

If their loyal, then why are they not vocal at home and who are the rest that don't go to away

games.

[stlucifer]

If their loyal, then why are they not vocal at home and who are the rest that don't go to away

games.

There are a fair number who try to start a song at home but it doesn't take as too many are happy to either sit silent, complain in their locale or, even worse, boo the team.

I perhaps used the wrong terminology (re loyal). More fanatical/fervent may have been better but the majority of them certainly see the game as a day out. Not just a football game and do tend to lend better support throughout the 90 minutes.

Edited September 18, 2013 by stlucifer

[Seaside Nipper]

If their loyal, then why are they not vocal at home and who are the rest that don't go to away

games.

Home in a St Mirren sense is not and never has been Greenhill road.............as far as I am concerned.

This move has undeniably been progressive in a financial sense, undeniable, accounting balance sheet, it tallies across and down, what's not to like.

A home game , though, in reality , rank, quite frankly. The emotional connection , the fervour , the advantage offered, the excitement and enjoyment , nope , has not started yet as far as I can tell. One night , that's been it, the Sellic demolition I was delerious, the rest , all too meh for me. I think there are a lot of folk go there, attend, but really cannot take to the place. I think that is demonstrated quite often in an apathetic and quiet acceptance of the mundane. There is an attendance there , but not a rowsing support in the atmosphere.

Trying to establish the old identity in the new place, nope............granted , it's a generational thing, it will happen, but for me the place does not do it at all. DL's current unfortunate league results merely add to the meh factor. I far prefer watching St Mirren play away from home................how feckn bizzare is that

Anyway, back on topic, 5pm this saturday, he's offski if we get nowt.

[div]

Home in a St Mirren sense is not and never has been Greenhill road.............as far as I am concerned.

This move has undeniably been progressive in a financial sense, undeniable, accounting balance sheet, it tallies across and down, what's not to like.

A home game , though, in reality , rank, quite frankly. The emotional connection , the fervour , the advantage offered, the excitement and enjoyment , nope , has not started yet as far as I can tell. One night , that's been it, the Sellic demolition I was delerious, the rest , all too meh for me. I think there are a lot of folk go there, attend, but really cannot take to the place. I think that is demonstrated quite often in an apathetic and quiet acceptance of the mundane. There is an attendance there , but not a rowsing support in the atmosphere.

Trying to establish the old identity in the new place, nope............granted , it's a generational thing, it will happen, but for me the place does not do it at all. DL's current unfortunate league results merely add to the meh factor. I far prefer watching St Mirren play away from home................how feckn bizzare is that

Anyway, back on topic, 5pm this saturday, he's offski if we get nowt.

I think part of the problem we have is that the new St.Mirren Park is actually a great place for opposition teams to come to.

We have a superb pitch, and all the infrastructure in the stadium is still relatively speaking "new". No doubt at all that most teams get a wee buzz coming to our place.

Love Street was a f**king horrible place for away teams to visit.

It's felt to me that we have contantly struggled for form at The Nou Grun, right from missing the penalty in our first ever match there !

It's coming up for 5 years in January that we moved in and yet it still doesn't really feel like home to me.

[marrez]

I think its just a st mirren thing, even the last few years at Love Street we struggled to win, did we not go a full calender year without winning at home with most of that at Love Street?

[Isabella Duke]

I think part of the problem we have is that the new St.Mirren Park is actually a great place for opposition teams to come to.

We have a superb pitch, and all the infrastructure in the stadium is still relatively speaking "new". No doubt at all that most teams get a wee buzz coming to our place.

Love Street was a f**king horrible place for away teams to visit.

Yet we've had our most successful era in the past quarter of a century since we moved into the new ground while most of the final 20 years at Love Street saw us plumb the depths...

[mearnssaint]

Yet we've had our most successful era in the past quarter of a century since we moved into the new ground while most of the final 20 years at Love Street saw us plumb the depths...

Unfortunately that era is coming to an abrupt end! Albeit we're not playing the old Clydebank or Stirling Albion yet. Having said that, the 8-0 versus Clydebank was a great day out. ''We want nine'' is a chant I suspect we won't be singing for some time to come (maybe next season )

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I think part of the problem we have is that the new St.Mirren Park is actually a great place for opposition teams to come to.

We have a superb pitch, and all the infrastructure in the stadium is still relatively speaking "new". No doubt at all that most teams get a wee buzz coming to our place.

Love Street was a f**king horrible place for away teams to visit.

It's felt to me that we have contantly struggled for form at The Nou Grun, right from missing the penalty in our first ever match there !

It's coming up for 5 years in January that we moved in and yet it still doesn't really feel like home to me.

would say its the lack of atmosphere by Saints fans that is part of the problem. Have only seen it a few times where Saints fans in both main stands get vocal for the team but that's down to how we perform.

[Big Jake]

Nothing wrong with the stadium atmosphere. It's down to us to generate it. Remember the Ayr fans in the league cup? Motherwell on Saturday, Aberdeen, Thistle. I could go on. I bet they enjoy our stadium and the noise they can generate in it. There is an unfortunate apathy in our support and there has been for a while.

[GlenburnSaint]

would say its the lack of atmosphere by Saints fans that is part of the problem. Have only seen it a few times where Saints fans in both main stands get vocal for the team but that's down to how we perform.

Reintroduce pay at the gate and sit wherever you want or are suited to sit. This is the only way to increase the atmosphere. Singers will group together as they did in our much missed North Bank.

[aldo_j]

Reintroduce pay at the gate and sit wherever you want or are suited to sit. This is the only way to increase the atmosphere. Singers will group together as they did in our much missed North Bank.

Pretty much this.

No singing section as come together and weak attempts to move to areas that we don't get failed.

I don't see why we need to have seat numbers, place is never sold out.

In fact, charge a premium to pick your sit, let the rest sit where they want.

[JJ McG]

Reintroduce pay at the gate and sit wherever you want or are suited to sit. This is the only way to increase the atmosphere. Singers will group together as they did in our much missed North Bank.

The atmosphere will remain shite until there is a change in management and we start seeing some positive results, our ship is sinking rapidly!!

[aldo_j]

The atmosphere will remain shite until there is a change in management and we start seeing some positive results, our ship is sinking rapidly!!

It's been shite under two managers. Why would a change improve that?

[GlenburnSaint]

The atmosphere will remain shite until there is a change in management and we start seeing some positive results, our ship is sinking rapidly!!

I agree with your post that until wins come the atmosphere wont be good. My point was more bigger picture and results aside this would help fans come together a bit more and enjoy the game cos they are sitting next to their mates. And wont be embarrassed to try and start a wee song or two.

If that helps pick the team up in spirit id put it into place.

[GlenburnSaint]

Also if the stadium is not getting sold out why not close a section of the west stand. And bring our fans down a bit. Like the cage in the north bank?

I think i sound like i miss the north bank