New Contract For Lennon - Got To Be 2 Years

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Comparing apples and oranges there. 2 of those managers are managing in the top flight for the first time. 1 had a transfer embargo and a points deduction and is in his first full season, 1 took over almost half way into the season and 1 is in his second season at this level.

This is Danny's 4th season. He has been at our club for longer than 4 of those managers combined have been at theres. If this was his first season of course it would be harsh to regard him as a failure, it isn't though.

He has been given ample chance to take us forward and he hasn't done it. Here's an article from November 2011, when Rangers and Hearts were still in the league. Danny had just signed the extension which is now about to expire.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Danny's self stated ambition then was to make us... And I'm quoting him here ' A regular top 6 side '.

Since then Rangers have died and Hearts have went into admin, in the process making 2 additional top 6 places available for teams like us. It is actually easier to get in the top now than it was when Danny's ambition was to make us top 6 regulars!

Not only has he failed in his self states ambition of making us 'top 6 regulars'. We haven't even been in contention for it once, never mind actually getting there. We could be a St Johnstone or a Motherwell or an ICT in league terms. These teams are no bigger than us, infact two of them are smaller than us. They're 'top 6 regulars' we aren't. Why?

I know people will now say yeah yeah but we won a cup. We certainly did, and what a win it was, the 4th greatest day in our clubs history. What a team we had last year, and we seen how good they could be in the cup.

We had Isma, who moved on to play for a team who's recently played in the last 16 of the UCL. We had Dummett, who is now a first choice player for a team in the top half of the EPL. Thompson and Teale were both Scottish internationalists, they both said they felt they were playing some of the best stuff of their career last year. Add all these players to our fine young midfield and it's no surprise we won the cup, we had the potential to be a fantastic team, and we showed that potential in the cup. Our squad last year was far better than it is this year IMO.

All the more surprising therefore, that we finished 11th last term. Apart from those 5 games last season our campaign was an absolute disgrace. Cup win aside, that team underachieved on an industrial scale. Nothing's changed this year, Jim Goodwin admits we've underachieved yet again. Only this time we don't have a cup run to take away the pain.

Therefore, if consistent self confessed underachievement, being in a relegation scrap most of the time and in the bottom 6 all of the time is what you want from St Mirren, Danny is your man. He's done it for 4 years, he'll do it for another 4 if we let him. This is what he does. If you'd like to see us move on and maybe even challenge for the top half one year (it's not an unrealistic ambition, promise), then we need a new manager.

So what makes you think the Dumbarton manager could make us a top 6 club or any other manager for that matter ?

[Lex]

So what makes you think the Dumbarton manager could make us a top 6 club or any other manager for that matter ?

He's worked wonders with Dumbarton and has managed at a higher level than Danny had when he came. He wouldn't be my first choice though, I'd like us to go for an experienced manager.

I don't necessarily think we should be a permanent fixture in the top 6, but I think we could and should be a solid mid table side, who finishes between 4th and 8th whilst staying out the relegation scrap. I just want us not to underachieve every year, that's all. Don't think it's expecting too much really!

[NeilPar72]

So what makes you think the Dumbarton manager could make us a top 6 club or any other manager for that matter ?

I don't. Certainly not in his first season.

[NeilPar72]

Comparing apples and oranges there. 2 of those managers are managing in the top flight for the first time. 1 had a transfer embargo and a points deduction and is in his first full season, 1 took over almost half way into the season and 1 is in his second season at this level.

This is Danny's 4th season. He has been at our club for longer than 4 of those managers combined have been at theres. If this was his first season of course it would be harsh to regard him as a failure, it isn't though.

He has been given ample chance to take us forward and he hasn't done it. Here's an article from November 2011, when Rangers and Hearts were still in the league. Danny had just signed the extension which is now about to expire.http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Danny's self stated ambition then was to make us... And I'm quoting him here ' A regular top 6 side '.

Since then Rangers have died and Hearts have went into admin, in the process making 2 additional top 6 places available for teams like us. It is actually easier to get in the top now than it was when Danny's ambition was to make us top 6 regulars!

Not only has he failed in his self states ambition of making us 'top 6 regulars'. We haven't even been in contention for it once, never mind actually getting there. We could be a St Johnstone or a Motherwell or an ICT in league terms. These teams are no bigger than us, infact two of them are smaller than us. They're 'top 6 regulars' we aren't. Why?

I know people will now say yeah yeah but we won a cup. We certainly did, and what a win it was, the 4th greatest day in our clubs history. What a team we had last year, and we seen how good they could be in the cup.

We had Isma, who moved on to play for a team who's recently played in the last 16 of the UCL. We had Dummett, who is now a first choice player for a team in the top half of the EPL. Thompson and Teale were both Scottish internationalists, they both said they felt they were playing some of the best stuff of their career last year. Add all these players to our fine young midfield and it's no surprise we won the cup, we had the potential to be a fantastic team, and we showed that potential in the cup. Our squad last year was far better than it is this year IMO.

All the more surprising therefore, that we finished 11th last term. Apart from those 5 games last season our campaign was an absolute disgrace. Cup win aside, that team underachieved on an industrial scale. Nothing's changed this year, Jim Goodwin admits we've underachieved yet again. Only this time we don't have a cup run to take away the pain.

Therefore, if consistent self confessed underachievement, being in a relegation scrap most of the time and in the bottom 6 all of the time is what you want from St Mirren, Danny is your man. He's done it for 4 years, he'll do it for another 4 if we let him. This is what he does. If you'd like to see us move on and maybe even challenge for the top half one year (it's not an unrealistic ambition, promise), then we need a new manager.

Expectations and ambitions are two very different things.

Hard to justify replacing a manager because he failed to meet lofty ambitions whilst surpassing expectations.

[Lex]

Expectations and ambitions are two very different things.

Hard to justify replacing a manager because he failed to meet lofty ambitions whilst surpassing expectations.

Was a reasonable ambition though. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by expecting him to get close to his own ambition.

[pod]

Was a reasonable ambition though. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by expecting him to get close to his own ambition.

If we finish 7th, I would say he was close to his own ambition.

Still work in progress, if given half the chance.

[Lex]

If we finish 7th, I would say he was close to his own ambition.

Still work in progress, if given half the chance.

But we were never close to being a top 6 side, the split happens after 33 games. How long is half a chance? Another 4 years?

[DLBud]

He's worked wonders with Dumbarton and has managed at a higher level than Danny had when he came. He wouldn't be my first choice though, I'd like us to go for an experienced manager.

I don't necessarily think we should be a permanent fixture in the top 6, but I think we could and should be a solid mid table side, who finishes between 4th and 8th whilst staying out the relegation scrap. I just want us not to underachieve every year, that's all. Don't think it's expecting too much really!

I'd love to be threatening the top 6 wipe every now and again but I'm not sure Murray would give us any more of a chance than Lennon.

As for an experienced manager?

We never go for experience. Historically we always promote from within or go to the lower leagues. In fact the only time in my life we've gone for experience the c**t (Hay) nearly killed us off.

Edited May 7, 2014 by DLBud

[Lex]

Stewart Gilmour very very non committal on the subject of Danny's new contract on the radio at the moment.

Discussion happening tomorrow apparently.

[Isabella Duke]

7th place?

I reckon we may well still finish 10th

and even then, saved from 11th spot only by Hearts 15 point deduction...

and that's without factoring in the absence of Rangers.

Fact is that last season was our worst non Old Firm top flight finish in 40 years. This season's finish may well be even worse.

Danny Lennon is clueless - and so everyone who supports him!

GIRUY.

[saint in exile]

7th place?

I reckon we may well still finish 10th

and even then, saved from 11th spot only by Hearts 15 point deduction...

and that's without factoring in the absence of Rangers.

Fact is that last season was our worst non Old Firm top flight finish in 40 years. This season's finish may well be even worse.

Danny Lennon is clueless - and so everyone who supports him!

.

GIRUY.

Even giving Hearts their 15 points back we're still ahead of them and four others. Your reasoning is severely flawed

Edited May 7, 2014 by saint in exile

[Bloomsbury Bud]

7th place?

I reckon we may well still finish 10th

and even then, saved from 11th spot only by Hearts 15 point deduction...

and that's without factoring in the absence of Rangers.

Fact is that last season was our worst non Old Firm top flight finish in 40 years. This season's finish may well be even worse.

Danny Lennon is clueless - and so everyone who supports him!

GIRUY. :

Wrong again

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Was a reasonable ambition though. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by expecting him to get close to his own ambition.

Did you read what Gary Locke said regarding Danny . have a wee look on the BBC. It goes something like even keeping St Mirren in the top league is a fantastic achievement.

[Drew]

None of the names that have been mentioned as possible replacements for Danny fill me with optimism and anticipation.

On balance, I reckon we should be sticking with him for another year. I have no real confidence that the BoD will select a candidate who has the necessary perdigree to kick us onto the next level.

It might sound as though I'm damning him with faint praise, but I don't think Danny has done enough that is wrong to warrant showing him the door. I concede that I've performed a bit of a U-turn in my thinking on this, but I base it on the post-split performances and results, and a few changes I've noted in Danny's approach and demeanour. I think he will have learned a fair bit from the signings debacle of this season.

He doesn't deserve to be sent packing. He's a good guy, has clearly developed a genuine affinity with the club, and, overall, hasn't done too much wrong in the grand scheme of things. We need to have a look at what has happened elsewhere to realise just how much of a gamble it would be to change manager. Things aren't broken, and don't really need fixing.

SAdly, I think his time is up as far as the BoD are concerned. I hope they know what they're doing....

[Lex]

Did you read what Gary Locke said regarding Danny . have a wee look on the BBC. It goes something like even keeping St Mirren in the top league is a fantastic achievement.

The day I let Gary Locke define my expectations for St Mirren is the day I chuck it!

[oaksoft]

None of the names that have been mentioned as possible replacements for Danny fill me with optimism and anticipation.

On balance, I reckon we should be sticking with him for another year. I have no real confidence that the BoD will select a candidate who has the necessary perdigree to kick us onto the next level.

It might sound as though I'm damning him with faint praise, but I don't think Danny has done enough that is wrong to warrant showing him the door. I concede that I've performed a bit of a U-turn in my thinking on this, but I base it on the post-split performances and results, and a few changes I've noted in Danny's approach and demeanour. I think he will have learned a fair bit from the signings debacle of this season.

He doesn't deserve to be sent packing. He's a good guy, has clearly developed a genuine affinity with the club, and, overall, hasn't done too much wrong in the grand scheme of things. We need to have a look at what has happened elsewhere to realise just how much of a gamble it would be to change manager. Things aren't broken, and don't really need fixing.

SAdly, I think his time is up as far as the BoD are concerned. I hope they know what they're doing....

I think the problem for Danny is that he's never really taken us to a place where relegation wasn't on the cards until about 2 weeks from the end.

In addition to that, he has made some seriously dodgy decisions both in terms of team selection and tactics and also signings.

There appears to have been little improvement in that respect since he started.

Do they therefore trust him with a major rebuild job?

I think it's that which will sink his chances.

Everything else has been great but I think the board will be wary of risking another nervy season.

For me, he's earned a year extension but I suspect he's leaving.

[Simon_Towel]

That's a second 8th place finish in four years for a club annually tipped for relegation. And of course the national trophy in between.

The most successful period in a generation.

Unfortunately the gormless mungs are most vocal and it looks like DL will be gone, I'll continue to give my full support to whoever is managing our club. I just hope it's the right choice.

[Drew]

I think the problem for Danny is that he's never really taken us to a place where relegation wasn't on the cards until about 2 weeks from the end.

In addition to that, he has made some seriously dodgy decisions both in terms of team selection and tactics and also signings.

There appears to have been little improvement in that respect since he started.

Do they therefore trust him with a major rebuild job?

I think it's that which will sink his chances.

Everything else has been great but I think the board will be wary of risking another nervy season.

For me, he's earned a year extension but I suspect he's leaving.

I think there will be plenty of nervy seasons in the future regardless of who they bring in. That's the point I was making regarding bringing in a manager with any pedigree. They simply won't do it. It would be too costly for a kick-off.

[stlucifer]

Given the quality of possible replacements heralded on here I wouldn't swap DL for many.

The one's that spring to mind in a positive way would be too expensive. Lambert? Definitely out of our leaue in more ways than one. Clarke? He'd laugh at the wage level. Davis? I doubt he'd want to manage the club he owns.

Edited May 10, 2014 by stlucifer

[saints0]

Did you read what Gary Locke said regarding Danny . have a wee look on the BBC. It goes something like even keeping St Mirren in the top league is a fantastic achievement.

You are probably the kind of clown who will vote no in the independence vote because english politicians have said we will never survive on our own,Be your own man and stop listening to what wankers have to say

[scrappy coco]

You are probably the kind of clown who will vote no in the independence vote because english politicians have said we will never survive on our own,Be your own man and stop listening to what wankers have to say

He has, so he probably wont get your message...

[BuddieinEK]

None of the names that have been mentioned as possible replacements for Danny fill me with optimism and anticipation.

On balance, I reckon we should be sticking with him for another year. I have no real confidence that the BoD will select a candidate who has the necessary perdigree to kick us onto the next level.

It might sound as though I'm damning him with faint praise, but I don't think Danny has done enough that is wrong to warrant showing him the door. I concede that I've performed a bit of a U-turn in my thinking on this, but I base it on the post-split performances and results, and a few changes I've noted in Danny's approach and demeanour. I think he will have learned a fair bit from the signings debacle of this season.

He doesn't deserve to be sent packing. He's a good guy, has clearly developed a genuine affinity with the club, and, overall, hasn't done too much wrong in the grand scheme of things. We need to have a look at what has happened elsewhere to realise just how much of a gamble it would be to change manager. Things aren't broken, and don't really need fixing.

SAdly, I think his time is up as far as the BoD are concerned. I hope they know what they're doing....

The bold part is key here Drew. He IS learning and developing, and is not afraid to admit he has made mistakes.

What more can we ask? Like you, I had lost faith and given up... but he has practically reinvented himself this season and shown an ability to change and learn. What more could we ask from a young manager?

One year contract with a one-year option would be only fair for both club and employee. He has done nothing to warrant unemployment!!!

[elvis]

I think there will be plenty of nervy seasons in the future regardless of who they bring in. That's the point I was making regarding bringing in a manager with any pedigree. They simply won't do it. It would be too costly for a kick-off.

Exactly what I was saying the other day drew it wouldn't matter if they brought in The manager of Chelsea we would still be fighting relegation every season it just seems to be our way .

[Lex]

The board's split.

[Drew]

The board's split.

Someone also suggested this the other day (Highland Saint?).

If they are split, then they should let the man keep his job, as it wouldn't fill me with any sense of confidence that they could agree on an alternative, and that way lies trouble.