Jack Ross - Manager of the Month

[shull]

2 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Sorry Shull mate but end on contract and being sacked are two entirely different things. Danny's time was up and we all moved on.  The board then royally fecked things up. If they had brought in a decent replacement then who knows where we would be?

Moved on?  

We certainly did. 

How do you know his time was up? 

He got sacked. 

[Edinbuddie]

JR's stock is high at the moment, and it's all on the back of what he and the players (many of whom he recruited) have done since January. He is also media friendly and managed to galvanise a support that was massively hacked off. On the back of that, Dundee have made an approach.  

GS can;

1)  opt to tough it out by refusing Dundee permission to talk to JR and hope it turns out for the best,

2)  reassure JR of the club and fans support for him, and maybe offer an improved contract to help persuade him to stay 

3) not bother his bum and let Dundee get on with persuading JR to go.

I'm not sure that GS can do anything but option 2 for the good of the club.    

[Soctty]

4 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Sorry Shull mate but end on contract and being sacked are two entirely different things. Danny's time was up and we all moved on.  The board then royally fecked things up. If they had brought in a decent replacement then who knows where we would be?

The board let him go. The fact that they could do it without paying him off is just coincidence. They let a cup winning manager go just 14 months after he won us the League Cup for the first time in our history. That still astounds me.

[pondsman]

A few points worth contemplating:

1. A phrase not often found in these pages...Shull is absolutely correct. This could, and should, have been knocked on the head on the first day. JR could have allied himself with Gordon Scott's statement and then got on with enjoying his holiday.

2. JR was originally mentioned along with Jim McIntyre for the Dundee job. The Ross County chairman issued a 'hands off' statement very similar to Gordon Scott's. Why did the Dundee board appear to heed the Ross County statement but not Gordon's? After all, Jim McIntyre would appear to have a good record of working in the Premiership on a small budget. He seems to be the one to go for. Was the Dundee board afraid of upsetting a team in their own league? Did they feel that it would be easier to tempt Jack to move up a league? Was he just the 'cheaper option'?

3. IF the Dundee board has sent someone out to speak to Jack, that can only be because they have received some encouragement from either Jack or his agent. If that is the case, it does not fit with many of Jack's previous public pronouncements about what his intentions were at St. Mirren (mention of 'trust, loyalty, team spirit, commitment, returning the team to the Premiership' etc.). As Shull correctly says, many of us (myself included) who are long-time supporters but who have not had season tickets for many years, went out and bought season tickets on the back of what appears to be a revival created in very large part by Jack.

4. Where do we go from here? If Jack goes, then of course we thank him for his work in keeping us in the Championship and move on. However, if he stays, I think it will be difficult to accept his public pronouncements so easily from now on unless he can give a good and honest explanation for his silence in the last few days. We will always be looking over our shoulders, wondering which team is coming to speak to Jack next.

Jack needs to clarify the situation very soon.

[div]

10 hours ago, div said:

In Jack I trust.

If he's clever he's using Dundee to get a few more quid out of Saints.

As long as it's affordable, and it means he's on a better contract for when the next club comes in, then I've no problem with it.

It's a job for him at the end of the day.

I trust he will make the right decision and he will still be here come the start of the season.

So the above is what I said last night. I think it's clear to everyone with a grasp of English, and who can read, that the second line of this post makes it abundantly clear, by use of the word "If" that it is a hypothetical opinion.

24 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Ross has got form with wanting more, and with Div giving us the inside on his latest attempted do-over of the very people who went out on a limb for him, you are comfortable with that!

 

But no, the forum troll now plays it off as fact. As he usually does, then blames me, again something he has a long history of doing!

31 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Wow... is that a massive Theresa May U- turn there?

first you tell us Ross is playing the people (including all supporters) who backed, supported and financed him to narrowly avoid the drop, for more cash, and you are comfortable with it.

now you are telling us not to believe you..?

Now he's passing it off as fact again.

Shameful behaviour from you to call the manager a cunt, absolutely shameful.

Unsurprising behaviour, but shameful nevertheless.

[faraway saint]

25 minutes ago, Drew said:

Speculation and whatabouttery. They might get lucky, and it will play out like this, but there is nothing of substance here.

Same on most forums.

[Soctty]

6 minutes ago, pondsman said:

A few points worth contemplating:

1. A phrase not often found in these pages...Shull is absolutely correct. This could, and should, have been knocked on the head on the first day. JR could have allied himself with Gordon Scott's statement and then got on with enjoying his holiday.

2. JR was originally mentioned along with Jim McIntyre for the Dundee job. The Ross County chairman issued a 'hands off' statement very similar to Gordon Scott's. Why did the Dundee board appear to heed the Ross County statement but not Gordon's? After all, Jim McIntyre would appear to have a good record of working in the Premiership on a small budget. He seems to be the one to go for. Was the Dundee board afraid of upsetting a team in their own league? Did they feel that it would be easier to tempt Jack to move up a league? Was he just the 'cheaper option'?

3. IF the Dundee board has sent someone out to speak to Jack, that can only be because they have received some encouragement from either Jack or his agent. If that is the case, it does not fit with many of Jack's previous public pronouncements about what his intentions were at St. Mirren (mention of 'trust, loyalty, team spirit, commitment, returning the team to the Premiership' etc.). As Shull correctly says, many of us (myself included) who are long-time supporters but who have not had season tickets for many years, went out and bought season tickets on the back of what appears to be a revival created in very large part by Jack.

4. Where do we go from here? If Jack goes, then of course we thank him for his work in keeping us in the Championship and move on. However, if he stays, I think it will be difficult to accept his public pronouncements so easily from now on unless he can give a good and honest explanation for his silence in the last few days. We will always be looking over our shoulders, wondering which team is coming to speak to Jack next.

Jack needs to clarify the situation very soon.

1. I think the chairman did his bit here, but with Jack on holiday, it made things a bit more difficult to clarify.

2. Maybe they just thought Jack was the better bet? Certainly they'd think he'd be the cheaper option, both in terms of pay off and salary.

3. Dundee will have sounded out his agent I'm sure, who - being an agent - relayed it to Jack, and spotted the opportunity to maybe improve his deal at Saints. That's business - if Jack is in demand, he's more valuable and therefore there's more money to be had. That's life. There has been no suggestion from Jack that he is leaving the club.

4. If Jack goes, we'll all be incredibly disappointed - well most of us will be. I'll understand that he has a family and if he is offered way more money, it may have been difficult to turn down. 

If he stays? Almost no fan I know will think any less of Jack for having the intelligence to consider his options. It will have no bearing on my opinion of him as a manager or as a man. He will leave some day, as he has the makings of a terrific manager. When he does, I hope it is after achieving something tangible with us.

 

We do need clarity very soon, I agree with that.

[Drew]

7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Same on most forums.

Indeed.

[div]

Douglas McNeil, who I would trust, says Jack doesn't even have an agent!

Yet there are papers quoting some bloke as his agent.

The whole episode is very grubby. The Courier is a comic that is appeasing their Dundee readership.

Tony, Gordon, Jack and James are all out of the country right now. Although that of course doesn't mean nothing can happen I'd say it's unlikely we'll see much more on this from Saints until next week.

[faraway saint]

Just now, div said:

Douglas McNeil, who I would trust, says Jack doesn't even have an agent!

Yet there are papers quoting some bloke as his agent.

The whole episode is very grubby. The Courier is a comic that is appeasing their Dundee readership.

Tony, Gordon, Jack and James are all out of the country right now. Although that of course doesn't mean nothing can happen I'd say it's unlikely we'll see much more on this from Saints until next week.

So is the Dundee chairman.

[Sonny]

Let Jack enjoy his family holiday in peace. He'll be back soon enough to tell us what is happening. He deserves his break with his family.

[Paisley brazilians]

I'm sure jack will clarify his intentions very soon as he knows there is a very short time to prepare a team for the new season.whether he's the manager of st Mirren or Dundee.

[billyg]

59 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Latest from Dundee forum.................

Dundee’s pursuit of Jack Ross is nearing the end game.

Courier Sport understands that St Mirren can’t come close to the financial package the Dark Blues are able to offer the man they want to succeed Neil McCann in the Dens Park dugout.

The Buddies have been playing hardball regarding official talks between Dundee chief executive John Nelms and Ross but this is not putting the Premiership side off.

Far from it.

The small compensation clause in his Buddies’ contract isn’t an issue and the noises from the Ross camp have given them encouragement that he is keen on the Dundee job.

There is some understandable reluctance from the 40-year-old to abandon a St Mirren project that has only just begun but it would take a significant change of heart for him now to stay in Paisley, such is the pull of getting his big chance in the top flight.

The smart money is on Ross returning from his family holiday in the next few days and being unveiled as the new Dundee manager.

TBF I read that yesterday , so it came before the statement from JRs agent who said there had been no contact with the manager fom DFC !

[faraway saint]

Just now, billyg said:

TBF I read that yesterday , so it came before the statement from JRs agent who said there had been no contact with the manager fom DFC !

According to Div JR doesn't have an agent.

Hey Billy, the less clarity we have then more of the nonsense that's being posted here, and over on the Dundee forum, will continue.

[mcdowell76]

45 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Sorry Shull mate but end on contract and being sacked are two entirely different things.

Not offering a new contract at the end of a contract and being sacked are EXACTLY the same thing though....

[mcdowell76]

1 hour ago, magnus said:

The guy is on holiday. If his wife is like mine he will have been told that if he even glances at his BlackBerry it's getting stuck up his arse.

Considering the large increase in salary at stake, if his wife is anything like mine she will have been asking for updates every 5 minutes!

[Lord Pityme]

29 minutes ago, div said:

So the above is what I said last night. I think it's clear to everyone with a grasp of English, and who can read, that the second line of this post makes it abundantly clear, by use of the word "If" that it is a hypothetical opinion.

But no, the forum troll now plays it off as fact. As he usually does, then blames me, again something he has a long history of doing!

Now he's passing it off as fact again.

Shameful behaviour from you to call the manager a c**t, absolutely shameful.

Unsurprising behaviour, but shameful nevertheless.

Thats the best laugh/piss poor attempt at deflection I've seen on here in many a year!

you show you're backing/encouragement of the tactics you tell us Ross is deploying by saying "if he is clever"... 

then do a Theresa May style u-turn flailing around desperately trying to save face by saying basically "i know i said it, but i didnae mean it"

You told us he was playing the chairman, the board and the support who bankrolled him to turnover twenty players in January, now you are really making a poor show if trying to pretend you didnt tell us. Shame on you.

fwiw, personally if Ross, or any other manager/player gets and takes what they believe is a better offer, at another club, it bothers me not, its just moving jobs which we all do.

But as you tell us Ross is only doing this to play the very people who stood by him when others were calling for him to be sacked, is as low as it gets in my book.

[oaksoft]

The facts that we can be certain about are two-fold:

1) Dundee made an approach.

2) Gordon turned them down and said this was the end of the matter.

Until I hear a quote from either our club or our manager this issue is dead as far as I am concerned.

As to whether Jack has been made an improved offer by the club? WGAS

As to why Jack has remained silent? WGAS

[oaksoft]

4 minutes ago, mcdowell76 said:

Not offering a new contract at the end of a contract and being sacked are EXACTLY the same thing though....

Nonsense. Honestly, where do you get these ridiculous ideas from?

[Magic Monkey]

I won't lie, this is doing my napper in. I want to step away from the internet, but I need it for work. 

Fuxake.

[oaksoft]

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats the best laugh/piss poor attempt at deflection I've seen on here in many a year!

you show you're backing/encouragement of the tactics you tell us Ross is deploying by saying "if he is clever"... 

then do a Theresa May style u-turn flailing around desperately trying to save face by saying basically "i know i said it, but i didnae mean it"

You told us he was playing the chairman, the board and the support who bankrolled him to turnover twenty players in January, now you are really making a poor show if trying to pretend you didnt tell us. Shame on you.

fwiw, personally if Ross, or any other manager/player gets and takes what they believe is a better offer, at another club, it bothers me not, its just moving jobs which we all do.

But as you tell us Ross is only doing this to play the very people who stood by him when others were calling for him to be sacked, is as low as it gets in my book.

Do you think the rest of us are stupid and cannot read and interpret his posts for ourselves?

I would be surprised if anyone interpreted his posts the way you do.

You need a hobby bud. Something to occupy your busy mind because you are not half posting some amount of nonsense.

[Bud the Baker]

 

49 minutes ago, pondsman said:

A few points worth contemplating:

2. JR was originally mentioned along with Jim McIntyre for the Dundee job. The Ross County chairman issued a 'hands off' statement very similar to Gordon Scott's. Why did the Dundee board appear to heed the Ross County statement but not Gordon's? After all, Jim McIntyre would appear to have a good record of working in the Premiership on a small budget. He seems to be the one to go for. Was the Dundee board afraid of upsetting a team in their own league? Did they feel that it would be easier to tempt Jack to move up a league? Was he just the 'cheaper option'?

I'll just focus on Point 2 - RC may seem like a small club but they have a "sugar daddy" Chairman who seems to provide them with a top flight budget and has bailed them out during the January window on more than one occasion since they were promoted back in 2012/13.

***********

As for Dundee they're £4M in debt, have posted losses for the last 4 season on record, and have a crumbling, expensive, white elephant of a stadium. My take on the situation is that McCann looked at the money that was gonna be available, figured it was gonna be Bottom 6 again and thought the best option for him was to hot-foot it back to Sky - don't blame him!

Ross is completely different in that his aim for this season, promotion to the top flight (and presumably a wage rise too), is achievable by moving to Dundee and even if we get promoted this season we're always gonna be a Bottom 6 club. Like the Cap'n says you can't really blame him if he goes but my message would be - good luck Jack, you'll need it!

***********************

I think we should be trying to max the compo and either bump up Fowler or go for Hartley, and the priority must be to get it done quickly.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[Drew]

This is messy. The messier it becomes, the more likely it is that Dundee will abandon their pursuit.

I think this is an increasingly likely outcome.

[Soctty]

20 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats the best laugh/piss poor attempt at deflection I've seen on here in many a year!

you show you're backing/encouragement of the tactics you tell us Ross is deploying by saying "if he is clever"... 

then do a Theresa May style u-turn flailing around desperately trying to save face by saying basically "i know i said it, but i didnae mean it"

You told us he was playing the chairman, the board and the support who bankrolled him to turnover twenty players in January, now you are really making a poor show if trying to pretend you didnt tell us. Shame on you.

fwiw, personally if Ross, or any other manager/player gets and takes what they believe is a better offer, at another club, it bothers me not, its just moving jobs which we all do.

But as you tell us Ross is only doing this to play the very people who stood by him when others were calling for him to be sacked, is as low as it gets in my book.

Do you exist in an alternative universe? Or are you under the influence of mind-bending drugs?

Bizarre stuff.

[WeeBud]

22 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats the best laugh/piss poor attempt at deflection I've seen on here in many a year!

you show you're backing/encouragement of the tactics you tell us Ross is deploying by saying "if he is clever"... 

then do a Theresa May style u-turn flailing around desperately trying to save face by saying basically "i know i said it, but i didnae mean it"

You told us he was playing the chairman, the board and the support who bankrolled him to turnover twenty players in January, now you are really making a poor show if trying to pretend you didnt tell us. Shame on you.

fwiw, personally if Ross, or any other manager/player gets and takes what they believe is a better offer, at another club, it bothers me not, its just moving jobs which we all do.

But as you tell us Ross is only doing this to play the very people who stood by him when others were calling for him to be sacked, is as low as it gets in my book.

You're aff yer heid!!