Speculation Thread

[Mainstand Sweary Mob]

This is insanely rational, practical and sensible.
It would never be allowed to work…
 
 
Where’s baz when you need him?  

Thanks. Instead of the survey they could come out and say short term they get the family stand to allow for better quality players, that keeps us in a division that allows us to maximize profits/cash generated from the OF teams.
3/5 years time we want to have enough money to either fill in the corners or if I remember the design of the new stadium was to allow expansion easily for the stand. This would allow more space to fit them all in 1 stand.

Also to add we talked for years always budgeting for 10th in the top flight. If that's the case we were always thinking of at least 3 rangers and Celtic games a season (not including meeting in the cups), so why make the away stand small and generate less cash?

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[HSS]

1 hour ago, Mainstand Sweary Mob said:

Was it a bit sort sighted of us making the away end at the new stadium smaller? Could we have not make it bigger to maximize the money we could make off the OF teams, since it seems so important and the fact they come out and say with giving them the family stand is the difference in 2 additional players wages?
If it was made bigger to house more of them, it wouldn't cost more to run on days other supporters are there, would it? As you would close most if it down and corner bits off no matter the division you are in, meaning needing less catering staff, stewards and police, no?
Would the next thing to look at not be to see if we could fill in the corners or what work would be needed to make it bigger? Look into the costs initially for that and how to raise the funds for that to make the most out of them coming to town and keeping your families happy too?

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For a new build our stadium is poorly designed Corners should have been filled from the start West and Main stands should have been built in 3 sections each with its own toilets and catering facility The stands behind the goals the same but 2 sections Finally the stands should have been elevated rather than the first row of seats being at ground level

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HSS said:

For a new build our stadium is poorly designed Corners should have been filled from the start West and Main stands should have been built in 3 sections each with its own toilets and catering facility The stands behind the goals the same but 2 sections Finally the stands should have been elevated rather than the first row of seats being at ground level

I think the problem we had with the build was that it was done to a Tesco Value rather than Finest budget.

IIRC the club had to push hard just to get 4 stands. I’d have hated it if we had ended up with a 2 or 3 sided stadium. 

I really don’t see the demand for increasing the capacity.

Edited June 2, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[FTOF]

17 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I think the problem we had with the build was that it was done to a Tesco Savings rather than Finest budget.

IIRC the club had to push hard just to get 4 stands. I’d have hated it if we had ended up with a 2 or 3 sided stadium. 

I really don’t see the demand for increasing the capacity.

Indeed.

We were extremely fortunate to get a new stadium paid for by Tesco. We were in no position to be demanding the "ideal" stadium. 

Gordon Scott managed to get the best out of a fixed budget set by Tesco and we managed to get  many "extras" added onto the basic plans that were first presented. 

 

[Rascal]

1 hour ago, FTOF said:

Indeed.

We were extremely fortunate to get a new stadium paid for by Tesco. We were in no position to be demanding the "ideal" stadium. 

Gordon Scott managed to get the best out of a fixed budget set by Tesco and we managed to get  many "extras" added onto the basic plans that were first presented. 

 

I can see both sides of the argument about the size and layout balanced against the budget we had. It was also an opportunity for directors loans to be repaid and I can’t/won’t argue against that either. 

My thoughts are that there may well be a mid term approach taken which works over 3 seasons till we are in our final position on the use of the stands and perhaps 5 before we look at increasing capacity and rental space.
 

 

[northstbuddie]

Our dinky little purpose-built stadium (according to Wikipedia) is the 21st largest football stadium in Scotland - behind the likes of Ayr United, Airdrie, Raith Rovers, Livingston and Falkirk. Remember Paisley is the largest town in Scotland after the so-called cities.

We are on a par with the likes of Inverness Caley, Clyde and Arbroath.

That's forward planning for you buddies!

This is why we have to allocate 2 stands to the ugly sisters - at the expense and inconvenience of the loyal home fans.

[FTOF]

12 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Our dinky little purpose-built stadium (according to Wikipedia) is the 21st largest football stadium in Scotland - behind the likes of Ayr United, Airdrie, Raith Rovers, Livingston and Falkirk. Remember Paisley is the largest town in Scotland after the so-called cities.

We are on a par with the likes of Inverness Caley, Clyde and Arbroath.

That's forward planning for you buddies!

This is why we have to allocate 2 stands to the ugly sisters - at the expense and inconvenience of the loyal home fans.

It's called living within your means.

We can afford the upkeep of our stadium. 

We rarely come close to filling our stadium and to think we would ever fill it regularly is pie in the sky stuff. Looking at the attendances since the stadium was built, it looks like the capacity is more than adequate. Looks like the forward planning was indeed spot on.

 

 

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, FTOF said:

It's called living within your means.

We can afford the upkeep of our stadium. 

We rarely come close to filling our stadium and to think we would ever fill it regularly is pie in the sky stuff. Looking at the attendances since the stadium was built, it looks like the capacity is more than adequate. Looks like the forward planning was indeed spot on.

 

 

100%, I remember when the stadium was getting built and I was "disappointed" it was quite small. 

Shows what I know, we've never looked like filling it on a regular basis and probably never will.

It is what it is, suitable for our fan base. 

[northstbuddie]

8 minutes ago, FTOF said:

It's called living within your means.

We can afford the upkeep of our stadium. 

We rarely come close to filling our stadium and to think we would ever fill it regularly is pie in the sky stuff. Looking at the attendances since the stadium was built, it looks like the capacity is more than adequate. Looks like the forward planning was indeed spot on.

 

 

Indeed - it was spot on for a club with our ambitions.

[Rascal]

2 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Indeed - it was spot on for a club with our ambitions.

Give it time NSB. We had a budget to work to and  we had directors loans to repay (quite sizeable if I remember rightly) and without them we wouldn’t have stayed in existence. The club was then for sale for years and nothing bar maintenance would have been considered by the board. Who would have financed it? Not the selling board. 
 

It is possible to keep the main stand and family stand for our own support and give half of the West Stand to large travelling supports as the West Stand has, I believe, two sets of toilets and two catering units. As we sit in the west stand, I am not too keen on this solution but, in practice, it’s probably the easiest to do. 
 

Longer term, I do so opportunities to fill in the corners and I would start with the North Stand which would then accommodate more away fans. As we intend to increase prices for these then that produces the best return.

[northstbuddie]

It's hard to think of another club in Scotland with our population base who have under-achieved to the extent of St Mirren since the 1980s.

Despite that, we managed a cup win in !987 and a league cup win in 2013 - an indication of our potential compared to the likes of Ayr United, Airdrie, Raith Rovers, Livingston and Falkirk.

However, that IMO was due more to the players and management at the time, rather than the board.

On-field success has not been matched behind the scenes to maintain the standing of the club within the Scottish context for a town the size of Paisley and surrounding area. We have consistently fallen considerably short of the likes of Kilmarnock, Motherwell and even St Johnstone (although in the case of the latter, not in attendances).

 

PS: I do acknowledge the success of the board in providing the training facilities at Ralston but consider that St Mirren should be attracting larger crowds than it has done for the past few decades.

Edited June 2, 2022 by northstbuddie

[Rascal]

4 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

It's hard to think of another club in Scotland with our population base who have under-achieved to the extent of St Mirren since the 1980s.

Despite that, we managed a cup win in !987 and a league cup win in 2013 - an indication of our potential compared to the likes of Ayr United, Airdrie, Raith Rovers, Livingston and Falkirk.

 However, that IMO was due more to the players and management at the time, rather than the board.

On-field success has not been matched behind the scenes to maintain the standing of the club within the Scottish context for a town the size of Paisley and surrounding area. We have consistently fallen considerably short of the likes of Kilmarnock, Motherwell and even St Johnstone (although in the case of the latter, not in attendances).

No disagreement from me on this NSB but have a feeling that ,once the new ownership model settles down, that we will start to change things on and off the field with the biggest challenges being off the field of play.

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, northstbuddie said:

Indeed - it was spot on for a club with our ambitions.

Indeed.

Even if we were in the top 6 regularly, we wouldn't require a bigger capacity than we already have.

 

[northstbuddie]

9 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Indeed.

Even if we were in the top 6 regularly, we wouldn't require a bigger capacity than we already have.

 

On what evidence do you base that assumption?

[FTOF]

8 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

On what evidence do you base that assumption?

The general apathy of the Paisley public towards the club.

Even when we have been successful in the past few seasons, we haven't come close to filling the ground with our own support, on a regular basis.

People seem to think that there's this vast number of St.Mirren fans that choose not to attend games and that they can be wooed back to attend games. In my experience there isn't. Sadly, in today's world, for many people there are many more attractive and/or important things to do than watch St.Mirren.

[Rascal]

4 minutes ago, FTOF said:

The general apathy of the Paisley public towards the club.

Even when we have been successful in the past few seasons, we haven't come close to filling the ground with our own support, on a regular basis.

People seem to think that there's this vast number of St.Mirren fans that choose not to attend games and that they can be wooed back to attend games. In my experience there isn't. Sadly, in today's world, for many people there are many more attractive and/or important things to do than watch St.Mirren.

FTOF. Would you agree that attendances were on the way up pre-covid? You are right to point out that people have many more opportunities available to them for entertainment. In some ways, the widespread tv coverage of the game in England seems to have fuelled a growth in people attending. Better coverage here, improved marketing of the game and more involvement with the community at all levels locally would I feel keep an upwards trajectory in attendances. On field success obviously helps!!

[northstbuddie]

8 minutes ago, FTOF said:

The general apathy of the Paisley public towards the club.

Even when we have been successful in the past few seasons, we haven't come close to filling the ground with our own support, on a regular basis.

People seem to think that there's this vast number of St.Mirren fans that choose not to attend games and that they can be wooed back to attend games. In my experience there isn't. Sadly, in today's world, for many people there are many more attractive and/or important things to do than watch St.Mirren.

Strangely, I agree with your comments to some extent.

However, when we do manage to get to (or near) a final, we do manage to acquire a few thousand extra supporters from somewhere.

[pod]

1 hour ago, northstbuddie said:

It's hard to think of another club in Scotland with our population base who have under-achieved to the extent of St Mirren since the 1980s.

 

What becomes of being next to Glasgow.  If we were ever to outclass the ugly sisters, our support would increase I have no doubt, but not in my life time.

[Rascal]

Just now, pod said:

What becomes of being next to Glasgow.  If we were ever to outclass the ugly sisters, our support would increase I have no doubt, but not in my life time.

We don’t need to do that IMO. Were we doing that when any of us became St Mirren Fans? I don’t think so. One driving force for a number might have been to identify with a local team and to distance themselves from the OF nonsense. Both remain valid.

[pod]

40 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

How  do you base that assumption?

The local community will still be supporting the OF.

[munoz]

14 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Strangely, I agree with your comments to some extent.

However, when we do manage to get to (or near) a final, we do manage to acquire a few thousand extra supporters from somewhere.

I think they're called glory hunters. 

[exiledfan]

24 minutes ago, munoz said:

I think they're called glory hunters. 

I have a few other words to describe but I don't think it's allowed on the forum. 

[Brilliant Disguise]

58 minutes ago, Rascal said:

FTOF. Would you agree that attendances were on the way up pre-covid? You are right to point out that people have many more opportunities available to them for entertainment. In some ways, the widespread tv coverage of the game in England seems to have fuelled a growth in people attending. Better coverage here, improved marketing of the game and more involvement with the community at all levels locally would I feel keep an upwards trajectory in attendances. On field success obviously helps!!

Agree with you both that the close location to the glory hunter duo has an impact on attendances. Covid also has also allowed people to step away from the game. However our average attendance last year compared to 19/20 has dropped circa 650 people. Compare this to Motherwell, who have a similar proximity to Glasgow they have only dropped 200. In fact if you look at Motherwell they have since 2017 added an additional circa 1200 to their average attendance.

These numbers suggest to me that we have lost our own support and that we are not trying as hard as the likes of Motherwell to increase and retain our core support.

Covid and the Old Firm are easy fall backs. We will never be as successful as the ugly sisters however we have to market on what strengths we have.

[exiledfan]

9 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Agree with you both that the close location to the glory hunter duo has an impact on attendances. Covid also has also allowed people to step away from the game. However our average attendance last year compared to 19/20 has dropped circa 650 people. Compare this to Motherwell, who have a similar proximity to Glasgow they have only dropped 200. In fact if you look at Motherwell they have since 2017 added an additional circa 1200 to their average attendance.

These numbers suggest to me that we have lost our own support and that we are not trying as hard as the likes of Motherwell to increase and retain our core support.

Covid and the Old Firm are easy fall backs. We will never be as successful as the ugly sisters however we have to market on what strengths we have.

Did Motherwell not give out free season tickets to existing holders post covid and free kids tickets when a new season ticket holder purchased one?

[Guest]

Motherwell last won a major trophy in 1991 I believe. Aberdeen have hardly won anything since Fergie departed. 
The fact we have a fit for purpose stadium and training ground when those clubs have ageing stadiums can only help us during the next few years when money is going to be tight for supporters and sponsors alike.