DougJamie Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I am certainly not joining the paranoia campaign, we have had chances last 4 games to be up with Thistle but woeful finishing has cost us. Ross game we should have been out of sight, United game, Dundee game bad misses, but I still believe despite all this we are more than capable even after TC, no striker of any note and no CH of staying up , Thistle game is a big one, but then again they are all big now. Yes officials have made some howlers but SFA are not reason we have won 16% of our games this year. Our creation of chances is great our conversion is difference between us being wrong end to middle of table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Nope. Referees make calls. They'll get most right and some wrong in every match. They are only human after all. Where he difference comes between good sides and struggling sides is that a good side will generally go on to win the match anyway, whereas the likes of St Mirren and Motherwell will lose and instead of blaming their own playing squad and manager for the poor performances it becomes much easier to have a go at the ref. I only watched the BBC highlights but it was clear Gary Teale got the key decisions wrong. The Dundee goal was absolutely onside and St Mirren should not have had a penalty. Perhaps Teale should be gratious enough to admit the match officials got it more right than he did. stick to pipe fitting as your USELESS as a wind up merchant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Blatant, embarassing and pathetic dive. It's hilarious to see so many people trying to defend it. Stamped on by McPake? Aye right Harkins tackle and Arquins tackle appeared to be very similar so not sure why one got a yellow and the other didn't but other than that all the penalty decisions which didn't go our way were correct as well. I'm afraid we have to accept that we weren't good enough on Saturday. I particularly hope we don't seek a meeting with the SFA FFS. Really? I know we say it all the time, but it doesn't make it any less true.... what decision do you think the referee would have made had that been Jim Goodwin rather than Gary Harkins? I don't think it would have been a yellow, and I certainly don't think it would have bee a cosy wee chat and off you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 stick to pipe fitting as your USELESS as a wind up merchant He's talking pish as well (surprise surprise!). In the two seasons we won the 1st Division, we got a fair few contentious decisions in our favour. It's natural that refs go into games with some preconceived ideas about who is likely to win and how the game is likely to pan out. Certain players are more likely to be booked for fouls, diving etc, and it's a nonsense to suggest otherwise. I also don't think anyone is mixing our league position with the performance of refs. We all know that we've not been good enough, but persistently getting players sent off during games, having to play parts of games with 10 men, and then losing the players due to suspension can't be helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also very difficult when you don't have the best view to see a Harkins 2 footed lunge early on....oh no there he is...top left in the yellow that's him isn't it harkins 2 footed.jpg To be fair our lad hasn't helped the referee out by signalling what a terrible tackle it was by hurling himself 3 feet in the air and having a roll around. (ground slapping optional) arq yel 1.jpg The correct technique was shown later at Arquin's first yellow...tremendous elevation on that leap into the air which as all referees know is of course the natural reaction to having being fouled...not carrying on trying to reach the ball and looking a bit of a clown slipping as you're unbalanced. Leap and Yelp....Leap and Yelp...that's the way to show you've been fouled. ^^^^ this. Tesselar could have taken a really sore one from Harkins but he gets up right away. Arquin then gets a yellow for something far more innocuous - no doubt because the Dundee player rolled around like a jessie. And it's SAINTS that get a player sent off for cheating. Grand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've watched the 3 slightly different sets of highlights... SPL youtube ones from Saturday night where the commentator thinks McGinn's first half shot strikes McAlister's hand but wasn't deliberate hand to ball, Davidson's challenge on Arquin gets nothing on the ball while pulling Arquin down and stopping him getting the ball, and I watched the BBC SPL page highlights where Paul Mitchell calls both those claims differently "No penalty there" and the online highlights from the Beeb also include Harkins challenge on Tesselaar and McLean's cross striking Irvine's arm in the 2nd half in the penalty area and the Arquin red card incident, and the Sportscene edit as well. From those combined highlights there are 6 or 7 big decisions on the game and while he gets the offside decision correct, and while I would have turned down 3 of our 4 shouts for a penalty there is a pattern to McLean's decision making. 1) Harkins 2 footed studs up tackle on Tesselaar. Decision free kick to SMFC and no booking or straight red. Dundee given benefit of the doubt 2) McGinn's shot blocked by McAlister's arm. No penalty. Dundee given benefit of the doubt. 3) Irvine's equaliser. Almost everyone seeing this in real time with no replays said it was offside until they say the replays and freeze frames. Dundee given the benefit of the doubt. 4) Davidson brings down Arquin in the box and doesnt get the ball - Dundee given the benefit of the doubt. 5) McLean's cross strikes Irvine's hand in the box - Dundee given the benefit of the doubt 6) Arquin comes down after McPake challenge - Dundee given benefit of the doubt 7)Arquin given 2nd yellow for diving after McPake challenge- Dundee given benefit of the doubt. While I think he got at least 3 out of the 7 calls right and a lot of them were tight calls, Harkins should have been on at least a yellow after 2 minutes and I don't know how he can justify Harkins' first foul going unpunished after a few mins and book Arquin for his first foul in the 2nd half which is less serious than Harkins one. Fans at the game also alluded to a string of tackles from behind going through Kenny McLean which also went unpunished while Arquin's clumsy first one goes straight into the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've watched the 3 slightly different sets of highlights... SPL youtube ones from Saturday night where the commentator thinks McGinn's first half shot strikes McAlister's hand but wasn't deliberate hand to ball, Davidson's challenge on Arquin gets nothing on the ball while pulling Arquin down and stopping him getting the ball, and I watched the BBC SPL page highlights where Paul Mitchell calls both those claims differently "No penalty there" and the online highlights from the Beeb also include Harkins challenge on Tesselaar and McLean's cross striking Irvine's arm in the 2nd half in the penalty area and the Arquin red card incident, and the Sportscene edit as well. From those combined highlights there are 6 or 7 big decisions on the game and while he gets the offside decision correct, and while I would have turned down 3 of our 4 shouts for a penalty there is a pattern to McLean's decision making. 1) Harkins 2 footed studs up tackle on Tesselaar. Decision free kick to SMFC and no booking or straight red. Dundee given benefit of the doubt 2) McGinn's shot blocked by McAlister's arm. No penalty. Dundee given benefit of the doubt. 3) Irvine's equaliser. Almost everyone seeing this in real time with no replays said it was offside until they say the replays and freeze frames. Dundee given the benefit of the doubt. 4) Davidson brings down Arquin in the box and doesnt get the ball - Dundee given the benefit of the doubt. 5) McLean's cross strikes Irvine's hand in the box - Dundee given the benefit of the doubt 6) Arquin comes down after McPake challenge - Dundee given benefit of the doubt 7)Arquin given 2nd yellow for diving after McPake challenge- Dundee given benefit of the doubt. While I think he got at least 3 out of the 7 calls right and a lot of them were tight calls, Harkins should have been on at least a yellow after 2 minutes and I don't know how he can justify Harkins' first foul going unpunished after a few mins and book Arquin for his first foul in the 2nd half which is less serious than Harkins one. Fans at the game also alluded to a string of tackles from behind going through Kenny McLean which also went unpunished while Arquin's clumsy first one goes straight into the book. The ref was absolutely correct in instances 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7. Number 4 could have been given as a penalty but the ref looked blind sided. Number 1 is debatable but we've seen yellow cards given. So that's 5 correct decisions and 2 borderline decisions. I don't see anything there to warrant embarassing demands to meet ref chiefs. I'd like to see Gary come out and admit the ref was right in the cases where he accused them of being wrong. I think that's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'd like to see Gary come out and admit the ref was right in the cases where he accused them of being wrong. I think that's only fair. Assuming Steven McLean reciprocates, no? In any event, you are applying your own subjective reasoning on the incidents DOP has highlighted. You are no more entitled to claim them as correct calls than anyone else is to hold a contrary position. I happen to disagree strongly with your interpretation on point 7. Then again, it only occured in real time right in front of me, so perhaps I should bow to your superior analysis. Just saying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Number 4 could have been given as a penalty but the ref looked blind sided. Number 1 is debatable but we've seen yellow cards given. You HONESTLY think he could have had any better view than that? Number 1 .....I think we've seen 3 or 4 Red cards given to our players this season for much less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 You HONESTLY think he could have had any better view than that? ref pos.jpg Number 1 .....I think we've seen 3 or 4 Red cards given to our players this season for much less Ball already behind both players so neither player took the ball. Dundee player CLEARLY taking Arquin out. What this picture, and the one for Harkins two footed lunge show, is that the ref can't be faulted for his positioning ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The ref was absolutely correct in instances 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7. Number 4 could have been given as a penalty but the ref looked blind sided. Number 1 is debatable but we've seen yellow cards given. So that's 5 correct decisions and 2 borderline decisions. I don't see anything there to warrant embarassing demands to meet ref chiefs. I'd like to see Gary come out and admit the ref was right in the cases where he accused them of being wrong. I think that's only fair. No 4 and No 7 are nowhere borderline just very poor refereeing They get paid very very well these days so they deserve grief when they get it badly wrong But you don't go running to the SFA You think things are bad the now wait until they have bee in their bonnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Here's the 2 frames of 'no contact' on Arquin's boot which didn't put him off balance causing him to fresh air his attempt to pull the ball back into his stride arquin trip.jpg ...and the 'no contact' from behind arquin not on foot from behind.jpg For all real lovers of no contact here's Dundee's defender prior to that making absolutely no contact with a passed ball along the 6 yard box as he hauls down Arquin. arquin pen not given.jpg Referee clearly unsighted from his position ref pos.jpg To be fair , the ref is full 12 yards away from play. Must be difficult to see from that distance . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hmmm a very definite appraisal. I'm always amazed at the vehemence of the arguments put up against our own players at times. <snip> If we are 'turning into Celtic' due to paranoia about the officials, I think the officials have provided plenty of ammunition over the past month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The ref was absolutely correct in instances 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7. Number 4 could have been given as a penalty but the ref looked blind sided. Number 1 is debatable but we've seen yellow cards given. So that's 5 correct decisions and 2 borderline decisions. I don't see anything there to warrant embarassing demands to meet ref chiefs. I'd like to see Gary come out and admit the ref was right in the cases where he accused them of being wrong. I think that's only fair. I agree if this was this one game in isolation. In everyone of the above they got the benefit of the doubt. Thommo red card was controversial. As were the 2 goals that we weren't given. All the penalties in the Kilmarnock game and the McLean red card were all controversial, so much so Collum was dropped. Then we have the Arquin red card which was later reduced to a yellow after appeal. The thing is we don't appear to be getting any benefits of the doubt at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Arquin does seem incredibly clumsy for a professional footballer. He seems to run and tackle with his feet an unnatural distance from his body. Reminds me of Sol Bamba who I thought was a complete donkey for Dunfermline, went on to rattle in a winner against us and then do rather well for himself..... ....for what its worth, while we have had a shite deal from refs since Teale, I think it is a dive. Arquin turning round to look at the ref while on the floor is the give away (pretty sure it happens before the whistle, however I wasn't there and could be wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 St.Mirren are considering appealing second yellow card and could be the first one in Scotland to do so according to the STV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfcuk1877 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 And they should appeal , u shouldnt get booked for falling over your own feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The highlights show what I though at the game Stewart and Irvine both look offside when McGowan plays the ball into the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I`d appeal the first also ! Simply play footage of Harkins challenge & point out that if thats not yellow how can Arquins be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 We would all have to take our hats off to the SFA if a second appeal in a week was given, it would take some balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) To be fair , the ref is full 12 yards away from play. Must be difficult to see from that distance . Should've gone to specsavers! Edited January 26, 2015 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The highlights show what I though at the game Stewart and Irvine both look offside when McGowan plays the ball into the box. Your telly fuzzy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Just watched Rochdale v Stoke if that clown of a ref McLean had been in charge be would have had to send off at least five players for so called dives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Bear Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Don't worry like Ciftci's swinging arm at McGinn's head, Scott Brown's kick and Accies weekend dive they'll all get punished retrospectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Not being appealed as it can only be appealed under "exceptional circumstances". The club feels that video evidence is inconclusive. Sir Thommo must be available for selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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