Prospects For The Club .

[Seaside Nipper]

St Mirren FC have been my team ,my dads team my extended family's team for what seems like ever, and that lineage has witnessed the trials and tribulations of the team since the early 1950s

Point is simple, the club as an institution, a town symbol , are now in my opinion verging on fundamental change.

It's my strong sense that things are going from average at best at present to a new (and unfamiliar to most ) new and extended low.

We are presently trying to grasp the positives from a doing away from home in the Second tier of the game up here, a mere comfort break from a five year journey from 'home' to a new never revealing dawn, whilst simultaneously mincing around now with a proposed partial buy out proposing some kind of future fan ownership ! It's maybe just the cynic talking but am I alone in sensing that he club I love is about to take a run down the shitter to football oblivion ? The game in Scotland is bad enough , but in this context , to,watch St Mirren FC slide further down the shit chute is almost now enough to suggest that the glory days as once recalled are done, we have enjoyed the sunrises when they came, but bifuc what we are looking forward to now are turgid re heats from yesterday's menu.

Sadly, I'm sick of it...........

Edited January 24, 2016 by Seaside Nipper

[dastardly77]

So since the 50s throughout these glory years how many seasons have we been in the top division?

You're being a tad over dramatic. We have been here before and will bounce back. Except this time we have a modern stadium, no debt, dedicated training facilities etc.

[Stuart Dickson]

St Mirren FC have been my team ,my dads team my extended family's team for what seems like ever, and that lineage has witnessed the trials and tribulations of the team since the early 1950s

Point is simple, the club as an institution, a town symbol , are now in my opinion verging on fundamental change.

It's my strong sense that things are going from average at best at present to a new (and unfamiliar to most ) new and extended low.

We are presently trying to grasp the positives from a doing away from home in the Second tier of the game up here, a mere comfort break from a five year journey from 'home' to a new never revealing dawn, whilst simultaneously mincing around now with a proposed partial buy out proposing some kind of future fan ownership ! It's maybe just the cynic talking but am I alone in sensing that he club I love is about to take a run down the shitter to football oblivion ? The game in Scotland is bad enough , but in this context , to,watch St Mirren FC slide further down the shit chute is almost now enough to suggest that the glory days as once recalled are done, we have enjoyed the sunrises when they came, but bifuc what we are looking forward to now are turgid re heats from yesterday's menu.

Sadly, I'm sick of it...........

I don't have your family heritage in the club. I was a first generation St Mirren fan so maybe it was easier for me to renounce my support when I stopped liking what I saw. I'll be stating the obvious but for me the problem wasn't on the park, it was off it.

Lets face it when Gilmour took over the running of the club it was in a hell of a mess. The club had been in the second tier for years, and that season it had only beaten the drop thanks to what was a fairly unlikely 1-0 victory away against fellow struggler's Stirling in the second last match of the season. Gilmour came in as the club teetered on the brink of administration with the shady looking Reg Brearley appearing to be the clubs only saviour. £2.5m in debt, playing at a crumbling relic of a football stadium. Bone and Fitzpatrick both had to make do with extremely young squads with the occasional Joe Hughes unearthed gem being polished and presented to potential suitors as glittering diamonds in a squad full of shite. There was hope though. Some of those gems were genuinely good players and the fans got to enjoy their talents before seeing them sold on, typically to keep the club going.

Today, as Gilmour hopefully prepares to accept the Gordon Scott / SMiSA bid the club is playing in a new stadium. The stadium represents a missed opportunity in many ways but at least the maintenance costs are cheaper. The club has borrowed land from the local authority which accommodates it's training facility, it's not a saleable asset and it makes no money but it is a pretty wee thing and other clubs might be jealous of it. The club is back, struggling in bottom reaches of the second tier again with no debt but the financial status of the club is still perilous due to the fact the club has no lines of credit anywhere other than from the club directors and it appears that things are still hand to mouth. Unfortunately this time round Joe Hughes is no longer in situ to find gems to augment the shit on the park - indeed gems are in very short supply while shit clearly isn't and a fair amount of that shit are in their twilight of their careers most of them having achieved very little even in their glory days.

The club is at a crossroads. Right now it's in what looks like a never ending downward spiral. There's a real need for new blood in the boardroom that can rebuild all the broken links with the local community. A need for someone who can quickly fix the short term while working to a long term plan. For someone who can see that doing things properly should not be compromised by a cheap short cut. Looking around the forum do I think St Mirren have those kinds of people waiting in abundance to help out? No....but it's got to be better than what is currently in place.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

The Broken link with the local community ? You obviously don't live local but we know that anyway Stuart.

The club has good links with schools while a good partnership with Paisley University. Is the church service still held in a Sunday ?

Unfortunately we live in the shadow of the old firm , our gates ( home support ) are much the same as it was a decade ago.

We have always been a up and down team and will continue.

There are two ways to spin this 1/ Negative 2/ Positive

We all know who will always be negative to our club.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[Ayrshire Saints]

St Mirren FC have been my team ,my dads team my extended family's team for what seems like ever, and that lineage has witnessed the trials and tribulations of the team since the early 1950s

Point is simple, the club as an institution, a town symbol , are now in my opinion verging on fundamental change.

It's my strong sense that things are going from average at best at present to a new (and unfamiliar to most ) new and extended low.

We are presently trying to grasp the positives from a doing away from home in the Second tier of the game up here, a mere comfort break from a five year journey from 'home' to a new never revealing dawn, whilst simultaneously mincing around now with a proposed partial buy out proposing some kind of future fan ownership ! It's maybe just the cynic talking but am I alone in sensing that he club I love is about to take a run down the shitter to football oblivion ? The game in Scotland is bad enough , but in this context , to,watch St Mirren FC slide further down the shit chute is almost now enough to suggest that the glory days as once recalled are done, we have enjoyed the sunrises when they came, but bifuc what we are looking forward to now are turgid re heats from yesterday's menu.

Sadly, I'm sick of it...........

Aye like we always used to win at Easter Road back in the "good old days". Man up a defeat away to Hibs has is hardly crisis territory.

[div]

I said on another topic yesterday that I genuinely believe we are at the bottom of the curve. I think the new manager WILL get us going but it's going to take a bit of time and patience.

Look at that team yesterday for example. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that in an ideal world none of Baird, Kelly, Agnew, Howieson or Gallagher would be starting games for St.Mirren. Personally I don't think any of those are of the sort of quality we need to be competing at the other end of the table.

You could also put question marks over a few of the others too to be honest but they are the most obvious candidates for improvement for me anyway.

January is a tough month to gut a squad but hopefully the manager will be able to wheel and deal a bit in the next 9 days and get us 2 or 3 more in that will improve on some of those positions. Add Jim and then Jason into the mix and suddenly things start looking a bit better.

The off the field stuff will sort itself at some point, hopefully the news this week indicates that there is some life in that again but I reckon most of us are a bit punch drunk with false dawns regarding the sale so again we'll just need to wait and see.

It's certainly not a good time to be a Saints fan right now but there were worse days under Bone and Coughlin in my opinion, and I do believe, hand on heart, that we are going to see some improvement in the weeks ahead.

Chin up !

[norrie82]

I'm sure I read somewhere that statistically we are the 7th most successful club in Scotland

[norrie82]

Well said div I hope your right. And well done for calling it as it is. Baird and Kelly aren't up to it and neither is agnew or howieson. All four are poor players

[TopCat]

So since the 50s throughout these glory years how many seasons have we been in the top division?

You're being a tad over dramatic. We have been here before and will bounce back. Except this time we have a modern stadium, no debt, dedicated training facilities etc.

Spot on.

The position we are in now is not unfamiliar at all. We've been lower in our history - in the 70's we finished 29th in Scotland! We were here when the current board took over in the mid 90's. We got promoted then came straight back here in the early 2000's. We will likely get promoted and then be relegated again in the next few years.

Such is the way for clubs like us, always has been and always will be. Talk of terminal decline, all time lows and irreversible staleness etc etc are just overblown dramatics. Football goes in cycles, we are at the low end of ours just now.

You can either wail and gnash your teeth about the sheer terribleness of it all, or accept it as part and parcel of being a Saints fan.

Edited January 24, 2016 by TopCat

[Seaside Nipper]

Aye like we always used to win at Easter Road back in the "good old days". Man up a defeat away to Hibs has is hardly crisis territory.

Lol, it's my concern that we are heading to something worse than crisis territory. "Prospects" it's in the thread title.

I'm simply not content that our prospects are in any way positive, between ownership options currently and morphing into long term fan driven club ownership. This is the most stuttering and stammering time I've seen the club muddle through in living memory.

Delighted to be proved completely wrong , but for the last five years the club , afaiic , has had almost a kinda change in its dna and I'm simply seeing a continuation of stale , shapeless pish on and off the park lying ahead for the club.

As for manning up, ffs, lol again, I've manned up over years supporting and standing by the club, no lack of spine there, now, I'm simply stating that in my opinion, things look more than black for us. It's not the latest defeat, this time to HIbs, that's merely a symptom of our continued sickness.

If the only show in town is the fan buy out and that's the best route , all good and well, hope it's the nirvana for us all, but I'm not comfortable with our current or future prospects t any degree whatsoever. Bookmark me, slate me, I'm only expressing my belief that St Mirren are at a water shed moment in their history, and it's not boding well in my opinion.

Sorry to be all bleak house about it, but thats my take on things.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Seaside Nipper

[beyond our ken]

So since the 50s throughout these glory years how many seasons have we been in the top division?

You're being a tad over dramatic. We have been here before and will bounce back. Except this time we have a modern stadium, no debt, dedicated training facilities etc.

Unfortunately, we have not kept up with the rest of the teams who have moved on. When you are comprehensively outdown over the best part of a decade by teams with far smaller fan bases (at least it used to be that way-ours is diminishing fast) then it looks far worse than a lapse into the lower leagues. We are not producing the youngsters that will bring us on and we don't have the income to buy in experience. It is really hard to see how the club can attract any kind of quality. We need to stay in this league and have a close-season cash injection to get us into title contention next season, if the current or proposed boards can't furnish this then I'm afraid we become a firm fixture of the lower leagues. I see the fan ownership as a side issue, unless you are a really big club then I am afraid it offers little more than survival, I am hoping that IF the SMISA/GS deal goes through then it does not preclude any subsequent sale of the controlling interest to someone and that it is a vehicle to merely stabilise the club and get it into shape as a viable football-based business that is ready for an upward surge.

[Dalrybud]

By all accounts, well certainly according to certain media chats hosted by AR, the manager believes he was sold a right crock when it came to the squad.

Rather than a good squad of players looking for direction, he believes he has inherited a squad of part-timers, wasters and cowards.

The experienced pros, Goodwin excepted, have been told to get the finger out. One has been told to leave his ego at home and start using his experience or ship out.

In truth, with the exception of Mallan and a couple of other youngsters, AR doesn't rate the younger players. No genuine work ethic.

Despite SG's belief that 4th place was not beyond us if AR could get the team going, the manager believed mid-table was best we would achieve.

Having no assessed the squad he's not overly confident that we're good enough to avoid the relegation play-off position.

He now realises that radical surgery is needed and time/money is against him.

Very worrying.

[shull]

By all accounts, well certainly according to certain media chats hosted by AR, the manager believes he was sold a right crock when it came to the squad.

Rather than a good squad of players looking for direction, he believes he has inherited a squad of part-timers, wasters and cowards.

The experienced pros, Goodwin excepted, have been told to get the finger out. One has been told to leave his ego at home and start using his experience or ship out.

In truth, with the exception of Mallan and a couple of other youngsters, AR doesn't rate the younger players. No genuine work ethic.

Despite SG's belief that 4th place was not beyond us if AR could get the team going, the manager believed mid-table was best we would achieve.

Having no assessed the squad he's not overly confident that we're good enough to avoid the relegation play-off position.

He now realises that radical surgery is needed and time/money is against him.

Very worrying.

First thing is getting rid of the Jessies along with their boots.

[iainsc]

So since the 50s throughout these glory years how many seasons have we been in the top division?

You're being a tad over dramatic. We have been here before and will bounce back. Except this time we have a modern stadium, no debt, dedicated training facilities etc.

None of the modern stadium, no debt and the so called training facilities are doing any good, the same as the great youth setup, no money has come from any of the youth players.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

By all accounts, well certainly according to certain media chats hosted by AR, the manager believes he was sold a right crock when it came to the squad.

Rather than a good squad of players looking for direction, he believes he has inherited a squad of part-timers, wasters and cowards.

The experienced pros, Goodwin excepted, have been told to get the finger out. One has been told to leave his ego at home and start using his experience or ship out.

In truth, with the exception of Mallan and a couple of other youngsters, AR doesn't rate the younger players. No genuine work ethic.

Despite SG's belief that 4th place was not beyond us if AR could get the team going, the manager believed mid-table was best we would achieve.

Having no assessed the squad he's not overly confident that we're good enough to avoid the relegation play-off position.

He now realises that radical surgery is needed and time/money is against him.

Very worrying.

Good assessment did our manager actually say these things over the airwaves.

I'm impressed with Rae no nonsense manager given time will be very good for us.

[religion is saints]

None of the modern stadium, no debt and the so called training facilities are doing any good, the same as the great youth setup, no money has come from any of the youth players.

John McGinn & Kenny McLean?

[elvis]

By all accounts, well certainly according to certain media chats hosted by AR, the manager believes he was sold a right crock when it came to the squad.

Rather than a good squad of players looking for direction, he believes he has inherited a squad of part-timers, wasters and cowards.

The experienced pros, Goodwin excepted, have been told to get the finger out. One has been told to leave his ego at home and start using his experience or ship out.

In truth, with the exception of Mallan and a couple of other youngsters, AR doesn't rate the younger players. No genuine work ethic.

Despite SG's belief that 4th place was not beyond us if AR could get the team going, the manager believed mid-table was best we would achieve.

Having no assessed the squad he's not overly confident that we're good enough to avoid the relegation play-off position.

He now realises that radical surgery is needed and time/money is against him.

Very worrying.

what a croc of shit .

[buddiecat]

We are at a low ebb at the moment, our BOD want out, there are no buyers other than the GLS & SMiSA proposal, this will be an opportunity for us as fans to rule our club, pass this up and god knows where we end up. A few will tell you that the SMiSA proposal will not work - they simply cannot prove this as it has yet to be tried and i for one believe we have to try it. Some fans will immediately ridicule this post because they have to disagree with everything, some will dismiss it because they have a long term history of standing up for the BOD and will not waver from that (even though that BOD want out ?) , some may have personal reasons for not wanting change.

All i can say is that there are a good few fans working hard to get the proposal accepted by the board and from my experience of working with these fans i believe it is our best option because it is either stick as we are or try something new and sticking as we are means being run by people who have done well for us in the past but are tired of the job, get fan ownership and anyone who tires of that can be replaced by someone who is eager to give it their best. If this proposal goes through it's time to put yourself forward and offer your skills to help with the transformation.

[windae cleaner]

what a croc of shit .

You think

Looks like what i'm seeing on the park every passing game

[Lord Pityme]

We are at a low ebb at the moment, our BOD want out, there are no buyers other than the GLS & SMiSA proposal, this will be an opportunity for us as fans to rule our club, pass this up and god knows where we end up. A few will tell you that the SMiSA proposal will not work - they simply cannot prove this as it has yet to be tried and i for one believe we have to try it. Some fans will immediately ridicule this post because they have to disagree with everything, some will dismiss it because they have a long term history of standing up for the BOD and will not waver from that (even though that BOD want out ?) , some may have personal reasons for not wanting change.

All i can say is that there are a good few fans working hard to get the proposal accepted by the board and from my experience of working with these fans i believe it is our best option because it is either stick as we are or try something new and sticking as we are means being run by people who have done well for us in the past but are tired of the job, get fan ownership and anyone who tires of that can be replaced by someone who is eager to give it their best. If this proposal goes through it's time to put yourself forward and offer your skills to help with the transformation.

This!

They say the only constant in life is change... That has a certain irony when you look at SMFC over the last five years as we have failed to change and suffered because of this inactivity. I don't think there will be a saints fan that doesnt have reservations about the GLS/Smisa bid, or indeed any bid!

We need change, we need to define a difference, we need to be a club that is recognised for one or more core competencies (talent development, selling on at profit, etc) again, and we will only find out if these can be achieved by 'changing' so I would implore any and all saints fans to get behind this bid, give the people involved our backing when they get it right, and more importantly when they have difficult decisions to take, and need the chance to learn as they go.

If you think we are ok as we are, third bottom of the championship, looking at a playoff battle to stay up.... Then please remember the club got into this state because nothing was changing, very soon it might be within our grasp to make the change?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

We are at a low ebb at the moment, our BOD want out, there are no buyers other than the GLS & SMiSA proposal, this will be an opportunity for us as fans to rule our club, pass this up and god knows where we end up. A few will tell you that the SMiSA proposal will not work - they simply cannot prove this as it has yet to be tried and i for one believe we have to try it. Some fans will immediately ridicule this post because they have to disagree with everything, some will dismiss it because they have a long term history of standing up for the BOD and will not waver from that (even though that BOD want out ?) , some may have personal reasons for not wanting change.

All i can say is that there are a good few fans working hard to get the proposal accepted by the board and from my experience of working with these fans i believe it is our best option because it is either stick as we are or try something new and sticking as we are means being run by people who have done well for us in the past but are tired of the job, get fan ownership and anyone who tires of that can be replaced by someone who is eager to give it their best. If this proposal goes through it's time to put yourself forward and offer your skills to help with the transformation.

I'm all for fan ownership but its important we get to know all the fine detail. We know board members have given substantial interest free loans to the club to keep things ticking over. Understand we pay back the large loan to Gordon.

My question will be where we going to find the money to invest in the team while paying back loans after all the team is the only real interest for many fans.

This question is not fired to you its something that will need answered.

[oaksoft]

By all accounts, well certainly according to certain media chats hosted by AR, the manager believes he was sold a right crock when it came to the squad.

Rather than a good squad of players looking for direction, he believes he has inherited a squad of part-timers, wasters and cowards.

The experienced pros, Goodwin excepted, have been told to get the finger out. One has been told to leave his ego at home and start using his experience or ship out.

In truth, with the exception of Mallan and a couple of other youngsters, AR doesn't rate the younger players. No genuine work ethic.

Despite SG's belief that 4th place was not beyond us if AR could get the team going, the manager believed mid-table was best we would achieve.

Having no assessed the squad he's not overly confident that we're good enough to avoid the relegation play-off position.

He now realises that radical surgery is needed and time/money is against him.

Very worrying.

Where exactly has he been quoted making comments like this?

[scottd]

I'm all for fan ownership but its important we get to know all the fine detail. We know board members have given substantial interest free loans to the club to keep things ticking over. Understand we pay back the large loan to Gordon.

My question will be where we going to find the money to invest in the team while paying back loans after all the team is the only real interest for many fans.

This question is not fired to you its something that will need answered.

I'd imagine that the team, and the club in general, will be financed as it is presently. I very much doubt there are many individuals out there who wish to 'invest' in Scottish football.. The current BOD have done a good job in keeping us solvent by ensuring that no more goes out than comes in, that has to be the principle for any club in Scotland long term. Not very exciting but there you go.

[elvis]

That's the whole crux of the matter nothing will change with the take over we don't have any money now and there won't be any after a take over so basically nothing is going to change we will still be in the shitter

[Stuart Dickson]

The Broken link with the local community ? You obviously don't live local but we know that anyway Stuart.

The club has good links with schools while a good partnership with Paisley University. Is the church service still held in a Sunday ?

Unfortunately we live in the shadow of the old firm , our gates ( home support ) are much the same as it was a decade ago.

We have always been a up and down team and will continue.

There are two ways to spin this 1/ Negative 2/ Positive

We all know who will always be negative to our club.

Actually I was being honest and fair, rather than putting positive or negative spins on anything. The club has progressed under Gilmour. It's realised it's assets and got good value for them. The problem is where the opportunities have been presented the club haven't made the most of them. That's very clear, especially when you look at footfall at the stadium on non match days.

Today the club is back to the league position where it was when Gilmour became Chairman. The finances are obviously better, however the club still seems to be in a perilous state - especially given Gilmours own predictions of administration, redundancies etc 3-4 years ago. Where the club is quite clearly worse off is in player recruitment. There's no Joe Hughes unearthing gems anymore and unlike when Gilmour came in - where Burton O'Brien and David McNamee were set to make the club £600k, there is no sellable assets amongst the playing squad. Why is that? Well Joe Hughes was clearly a very talented scout, but it's more than that. Look at the links the club used to have to the community back in those days. Close tie ins with Glennifer Thistle, Linwood Rangers and a number of clubs in Coatbridge where Joe Hughes did much of his scouting. That's all been destroyed thanks to the short term planning of the St Mirren board grabbing at local resources without any assistance flowing back the way. The breakdown also manifests itself quite clearly in the falling numbers of kids in the St Mirren support - something that has to be a real concern for the long term viability of the club.

Blaming Rangers and Celtic for St Mirren's recent problems is an utter joke though. In recent years Rangers have been liquidated, and "The Rangers" has been in the lower leagues for the last three seasons. Celtic are closer to Partick Thistle, Motherwell and Hamilton than they are to Paisley yet Motherwell and Hamilton have continued to maintain top flight status and all 3 clubs have continued to produce sellable talent - less so Motherwell but they still do better than St Mirren.

Gilmour has been a reasonably safe pair of hands so I can understand why people get nervous about bids like the SMiSA one. However as a SMiSA member I'm more than happy to let the guys get on with creating a proposal that they can then put to the members for scrutiny and for a vote. The whole purpose of an Independent Supporters Association is to buy shares in the club and to get fan representation on the board. Thank f**k SMiSA is finally following it's remit.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Stuart Dickson