Queens Park v St. Mirren Betfred Cup 24/7/18

[shull]

1 minute ago, scrappy coco said:

That's a nice wee surprise for Top Cat when he wakes up, bet you he gets his cock out for this...

The man is a legend..

God bless wee baldy.

Haste ye back

[Jack the lad]

8 hours ago, foxbar_bud said:

One of the telling things tonight was despite screaming out for a goal or some creativity, Stubbs left Cooke and King on the bench, two of his signings, whilst only using 2 subs.

First I’ve seen of the team tonight and to be honest I’m shocked at what I seen,

Heaton looked nervous to start but I’m not too concerned about him I think he will come good.

Kpekawa described himself as a ball playing centre half....f**k me, his distribution is atrocious.

McGinn is a major downgrade from Liam Smith, amazed Ross signed him.

Wasn’t impressed with Coulson, looked too lightweight.

Cammy Smith looks lost

Mullen, Flynn, Stephen McGinn didn’t impress either

Anyone else think we don’t look fit either? Coulson and KPekawa looked knackered after about 50mins

Really surprised at quite how poor we were tonight.

Absolutly this, and the blame lies firmly at the feet of Stubbs.

[DLBud]

Mackenzie is injured just now. Just as he was for 22 league games last season.

McShane, Reilly & Hippolyte couldn’t even get a regular game for us in the Championship. Indeed, Hippolyte couldn’t even get a regular game for Falkirk!

Eckersley also missed numerous games last season and Coulson looks like a decent replacement.

We need new players. Not guys who weren’t good enough in the Championship.

Don’t disagree with that. I’d just like us to replace them with better quality before we dump them. I don’t believe, based on performances so far, that the guys brought in are actually better.

[scrappy coco]

21 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

As usual, you talk pish and then pick one part of my post that you think you can be a smart arse about and off you go.

I didn’t say these guys should have been kept for the Premiership. I said they were popular players (are you actually disputing that?) and getting rid of them was one of the reasons that Stubbs was getting grief from the fans.

That, in addition to his comments about the, as yet to be revealed, marquee signings and the poor quality has he signed.

You, in case you forgot, we’re suggesting that poor Stubbs was being berated for circumstances outwith his control. I’ve cited three reasons above why that is simply not true and concluded you were talking bollocks.

Happy to clear it up.

 

I'm no getting this at all, do we just keep them for sentimental reasons or something, because they like to head into the Bankhouse 

for a few bevvy's now and again, Fcuksake man it's seem's Stubbs cant win either way..

[TopCat]

There’s naturally a lot of focus on how the new signings played. They were all rubbish to a man.

However, what was more worrying for me, was how the established players played.

We had a central 3 of McGinn, Flynn and Smith. Lot of experience in there at a decent level. Not one of them could get a grip on things and take the game by the scruff of the neck last night, 3 very poor performances.

Smith in particular, people have been asking for him to play central. He did last night, number 10 role behind Mullen. He barely touched the ball the whole game and was rightly subbed off.

Those 3 need to find their form pronto or August is going to be a long, hard and pointless month.

[Kemp]

13 minutes ago, TopCat said:

There’s naturally a lot of focus on how the new signings played. They were all rubbish to a man.

However, what was more worrying for me, was how the established players played.

We had a central 3 of McGinn, Flynn and Smith. Lot of experience in there at a decent level. Not one of them could get a grip on things and take the game by the scruff of the neck last night, 3 very poor performances.

Smith in particular, people have been asking for him to play central. He did last night, number 10 role behind Mullen. He barely touched the ball the whole game and was rightly subbed off.

Those 3 need to find their form pronto or August is going to be a long, hard and pointless month.

The problem lies with the very clear lack of gameplan. I've never seen a team look so bereft of ideas.  Cammy Smith was doing his best to run at the QP defence and great space, but that was pretty much the plan: run straight at them, often with Danny Mullen running next to him just to give it an authentic primary school football feel.

Queens were sitting back, clearly we had to try and stretch play, get options on the wing, try and drag QP players out of position etc etc but there was simply none of that.  Just the pantomime of the three carthorses at the back passing the ball very slowly around and then either the punt up the park, or the ball in to the congested centre of the field. Queens Park really grew in confidence once they saw that was all we had. 

Forget about new signings for a minute, this isn't a case of last season's team taking a step up and being unable to deal with it.  We have played an amateur team and a non-league team and been completely hopeless.

[Kemp]

I must say our support was also pretty poor last night.  By all means, let your feelings known at half time and full time but there was a nasty atmosphere throughout the game.  Stubbs new signings don't look up to much yet, but if we get on their backs from the start they are only going to get more uncomfortable and we end up in a Dundee United situation where our players hate playing at home.

I do appreciate this may require a superhuman effort given how lost some of the team looked, but we do have a role to play.

[Wendy Saintss]

Don’t disagree with that. I’d just like us to replace them with better quality before we dump them. I don’t believe, based on performances so far, that the guys brought in are actually better.

I think Coulson is a decent replacement for Eckersley.

Mackenzie is injury prone and missed 22 league games last season. He’s injured again now. A guy sitting in the stands is no use.

Flynn and Mullen were brought in by Jack Ross himself to replace McShane and Reilly.

Jack Ross also brought in Kellerman for McShane’s position.

Hippolyte was a last minute bench warming signing.

I see no problem with dumping these players now. They were bit part players anyway.

The real loss is Lewis Morgan.

[southsidebud]

8 hours ago, Big Yards said:

Where have the chances been for a striker to put away? Wouldn’t have mattered who was up front tonight. I’d say a Morgan like winger/midfield player is just as important!

 

8 hours ago, billyg said:

We're not creating anything to finish ! We're shite all over the pitch !

 

I should have chosen my words more carefully. By finisher I meant more a creative attacker that is capable of engineering a finish rather than a classic poacher/finisher - although we are missing both.

As I said above to Kemp [who made the same point as you guys] - there were numerous occasions when the ball was in forward areas and/or the box where the player concerned hesitated, took one touch too many, couldn't seem to get the ball out from between their feet, took completely the wrong option or simply ran out of ideas. Someone with a bit more guile or composure could have turned those opportunities into chances and potentially the chances into goals.

I agree with all of you that we were poor all over the pitch last night - and in my opinion a major factor in this is that there is a confidence issue caused by a realisation that we don't have a cutting edge - and this is creating a vicious cycle impacting our ability to function as a team as the game goes on.

In short, I think we need to get a couple of attackers in to address this our first priority. Whether or not we will be able to is another matter. Kyle McGennis coming back last night was the only positive I took from the match - but I guess we've got to wait and see what AS can pull out of the bag.

[St.Ricky]

Several posters have hot the nail on the head Regarding the Squad. Starting at the front, we need 2/3 strikers. In midfield a Jim Goodwin type. Time will tell at the back. As to the Famous Four of MacKenzie, Eckersley, McShane and Ross (GK), they will remain club hero's but should be moved on. As to the fan's role in this, patience is definitely needed. Positive noise and support helped lift the players last season and it will be needed more than ever during this one. I didnt start supporting Saints because I thought we would win every game. Finally..crefit to Gus and his team. They worked their socks off. COYS

[pondsman]

45 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Several posters have hot the nail on the head Regarding the Squad. Starting at the front, we need 2/3 strikers. In midfield a Jim Goodwin type. Time will tell at the back. As to the Famous Four of MacKenzie, Eckersley, McShane and Ross (GK), they will remain club hero's but should be moved on. As to the fan's role in this, patience is definitely needed. Positive noise and support helped lift the players last season and it will be needed more than ever during this one. I didnt start supporting Saints because I thought we would win every game. Finally..crefit to Gus and his team. They worked their socks off. COYS

Agree with most of this. Strikers are clearly a priority, but not easy to find. In midfield a JG type would be helpful, but more than that we need some creativity. Maybe Magennis will provide that when he gets up to speed after injury. 

Stubbs is entitled to let players go if he feels that they are not up to the standard we'll need in the Premiership. His problem is that he has not been able to replace them with something better. Perhaps he brought the criticism on himself by talking about quality signings before the deals were done. When he was indicating that signings were imminent, the players on the horizon seemed to be Adam Rooney, Anthony Stokes and the youngster Johnston from Celtic. All of these have now disappeared from the radar for different reasons. He is now playing catch up in order to find decent players in time for the league starting. I hope he finds what he needs but doesn't speak about it before the ink is dry on the contract.

As for the fans, surely we can get behind the team in difficult times. After all, we've done it for many years. Remember that last season was a blip in our history, albeit an amazingly enjoyable one!

[Soctty]

Having had more time to take in the performances so far, I'm less worried than I was (and I wasn't overly worried before). In the eyes of many people, we haven't played a competitive game yet. Maybe also in the eyes of the players who are struggling to get to optimum fitness - which makes a huge difference to performances.

People saying a new striker wouldn't matter as we didn't create anything - good strikers create chances, by their movement and positional sense. Fit strikers also tend to be more dynamic in their movement. Fitness is a key issue in our struggles at the moment, and one which should be removed as more games are played - then we can truly start to judge the team and manager.

Last season we had 4 preseason friendlies before we played our first League Cup game - this season we didn't have a single game. That in itself tells a story for me, and part of the reason I'm going to give the team - and manager - a lot more time before making any sort of judgement and drenching my knickers.

[billyg]

49 minutes ago, Soctty said:

 

I'm going to give the team - and manager - a lot more time before making any sort of judgement and drenching my knickers.

I'm sure you know deep down that we're f**ked. Most St Mirren supporters get that gut feeling when things aren't going well , and several I spoke to last night are feeling that way already. For example , our back three last night are all as slow as a week in the jail , and couldn't turn in the Sahara Desert !

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, DLBud said:

 

As usual, you talk pish and then pick one part of my post that you think you can be a smart arse about and off you go.

I didn’t say these guys should have been kept for the Premiership. I said they were popular players (are you actually disputing that?) and getting rid of them was one of the reasons that Stubbs was getting grief from the fans.

That, in addition to his comments about the, as yet to be revealed, marquee signings and the poor quality has he signed.

You, in case you forgot, we’re suggesting that poor Stubbs was being berated for circumstances outwith his control. I’ve cited three reasons above why that is simply not true and concluded you were talking bollocks.

Happy to clear it up.

 

What has happened here is that you have made an arse of yourself and you are trying to backpeddle. 

No biggie. Why get all upset and shrieky about it?

[Soctty]

7 minutes ago, billyg said:

I'm sure you know deep down that we're f**ked. Most St Mirren supporters get that gut feeling when things aren't going well , and several I spoke to last night are feeling that way already. For example , our back three last night are all as slow as a week in the jail , and couldn't turn in the Sahara Desert !

Gut feelings mean nothing. I remember people having a gut feeling that Jack was a dud - they even started multiple threads about it. Why not wait until we've played a decent amount of meaningful games before deciding the manager is useless?

I said to someone else last night, patience is very thin on the ground when it comes to fitba fans. Three competitive games, no defeat yet, two clean sheets - ok two were against lower league opposition, but it's hardly time for "gut feelings" is it?

Get the pitchforks sharpened - Billy has a gut feeling...

[Kemp]

I agree gut feelings don't mean much. 

It's the mounting evidence that is the problem!

[billyg]

9 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Gut feelings mean nothing. I remember people having a gut feeling that Jack was a dud - they even started multiple threads about it. Why not wait until we've played a decent amount of meaningful games before deciding the manager is useless?

I said to someone else last night, patience is very thin on the ground when it comes to fitba fans. Three competitive games, no defeat yet, two clean sheets - ok two were against lower league opposition, but it's hardly time for "gut feelings" is it?

Get the pitchforks sharpened - Billy has a gut feeling...

Don't include me among the people who thought Jack was a dud ! I had a gut feeling he would do the business ! Works both ways you see. I 'm pretty sure we can revisit this in a while and I'll have been proven correct again ! Stubbs is a dud , you know it , I know it , we all know it  !

Edited July 25, 2018 by billyg

[Soctty]

1 minute ago, billyg said:

Don't include me among the people who thought Jack was a dud ! I had a gut feeling he would do the business ! Works both ways you see. I 'm pretty sure we can revisit this in a while and I'll have been proven correct again !

I was right behind Jack from the off, in fact I wanted him in near the end of Rae's reign. I was also dead against appointing Stubbs. Difference is I'm in no great hurry to be proved right, and won't keep banging on about poor performances in the league cup group stages, or our one and only preseason friendly, as sticks to beat him with.

He's our manager, and for us to do well, he has to do well, so I will back the guy until I have had adequate time to assess him, his management and the players he brings in. This is far too early for that - unless you just want to be proved right. Hopefully you can eat humble pie if proven wrong, rather than cling onto a notion that you were somehow right like a number of "fans" did with Jack. Hopefully you are in a position to be eating humble pie - whether you do or not is neither here nor there to me.

#COYS

[Soctty]

8 minutes ago, Kemp said:

I agree gut feelings don't mean much. 

It's the mounting evidence that is the problem!

Mounting evidence being 4 games, one our only preseason friendly and the other three the only other "preseason" games we've had? Let the players - old and new - get fit and sharp first before condemning them, and the manager. Also, let's wait and see who he brings in next, as he was obviously expecting a few bigger names in the door by this stage.

[Buddie Marvelous]

the penalties

 

 

[bazil85]

4 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Mackenzie is injured just now. Just as he was for 22 league games last season.

McShane, Reilly & Hippolyte couldn’t even get a regular game for us in the Championship. Indeed, Hippolyte couldn’t even get a regular game for Falkirk!

Eckersley also missed numerous games last season and Coulson looks like a decent replacement.

We need new players. Not guys who weren’t good enough in the Championship.

 

Mac wasn't injured for 22 games, he just struggled to displace JB for a while, when he did, he was miles ahead of the three CBs to play so far this season. 

Hippolyte was signed for this season, Reilly wasn't playing because JR seemed to be favouring Mullan (possibly to see how he'd do for next season if Reilly left) who has been poor so far, McShane was poor against Spartans but in a number of games last season played miles above what I've seen in last three games

Coulson played for Middlesbourgh unders as a winger, could easily play both IMO. Missing games doesn't make him a bad option. 

 

[Wendy Saintss]

15 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Mac wasn't injured for 22 games, he just struggled to displace JB for a while, when he did, he was miles ahead of the three CBs to play so far this season. 

Hippolyte was signed for this season, Reilly wasn't playing because JR seemed to be favouring Mullan (possibly to see how he'd do for next season if Reilly left) who has been poor so far, McShane was poor against Spartans but in a number of games last season played miles above what I've seen in last three games

Coulson played for Middlesbourgh unders as a winger, could easily play both IMO. Missing games doesn't make him a bad option. 

 

Mac missed 22 games last season - either through injury or cos he wasn't good enough. That suggests he's not good enough for the Premiership!

Hippolyte was a last minute bench warming signing. He wasn't even good enough for Falkirk never mind the Premiership!

Jack Ross replaced McShane with Flynn and then signed Kellerman and he replaced Reilly with Mullen.

Coulson is a left back now. Midlesbrough didn't loan him to us to play him out of position in order to keep Eckersely in the team (when fit)!

Edited July 25, 2018 by Wendy Saintss

[Dibbles old paperboy]

4 hours ago, scrappy coco said:

That's a nice wee surprise for Top Cat when he wakes up, bet you he gets his cock out for this...

Their post-match interview doesn't even look like it was recorded on a blurry camera phone either! Gus McPherson looking upbeat and talking about how well his players have played individually and as a team v Alan Stubbs saying the highlight was Kyle Magennis getting some minutes and we need more quality in the squad.

#bringbackGus!

[bazil85]

10 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Mac missed 22 games last season - either through injury or cos he wasn't good enough. That suggests he's not good enough for the Premiership!

Hippolyte was a last minute bench warming signing. He wasn't even good enough for Falkirk never mind the Premiership!

Jack Ross replaced McShane with Flynn and then signed Kellerman and he replaced Reilly with Mullen.

Coulson is a left back now. Midlesbrough didn't loan him to us to play him out of position in order to keep Eckersely in the team (when fit)!

I don't see how anyone can hold an injury against him, the games he played behind Jack is because we were a winning team, naturally he'd struggle to get back in, wouldn't be fair on Jack otherwise. He eventually won his place back and was fantastic. Baird never won the position back for the rest of the season. Everything from the first four games suggests he's currently the best we have in that position. 

We didn't need a bench warmer, we were flying. Jack Ross even said himself the signing was more for next season, he wasn't match sharp because he hadn't played much and his contract length backs-up he was signed for this year. 

Flynn has been poor, Mullen has been poor, neither have looked a shadow of what McShane or Reilly were when on form last season. Kellerman I think has only played in one game, 

We can't do what Middlesbourgh want at the deterement to our team. If Eck at LB and him at LM is better for us, it's a no brainer. 

[Lord Pityme]

34 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Mac wasn't injured for 22 games, he just struggled to displace JB for a while, when he did, he was miles ahead of the three CBs to play so far this season. 

Hippolyte was signed for this season, Reilly wasn't playing because JR seemed to be favouring Mullan (possibly to see how he'd do for next season if Reilly left) who has been poor so far, McShane was poor against Spartans but in a number of games last season played miles above what I've seen in last three games

Coulson played for Middlesbourgh unders as a winger, could easily play both IMO. Missing games doesn't make him a bad option. 

 

The issue with Mackenzie is he cannot play on artificial pitches anymore, and with three clubs now in the prem having them that means he would be unavailable for a minimum of six games, not counting the injuries he suffers from each season. It makes no sense to retain him.

dont know for sure, but i believe thats a similar issue with Eckersley.