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We cannot sack a guy with a 3 year contract when we have just played Aberdeen, Rangers and Hearts away and facing Celtic next.
He needs to be allowed a run of games against our realistic competitors first. Either give him until league match 11 or the end of October at the very least.


I understand that point of view but believe it’s the sort of “wee team” mentality that will send us right back down. Every team in the league is a realistic competitor. We’ve all watched enough football over the years to know that when you start looking at games in this manner (i.e. we’ll lose that game but should pick up something there) you end up with egg on your face.

John Wooden used to say that the team with the best players almost always wins. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts all have immeasurably better squads than us and will finish higher up the league than us but that doesn’t mean we can’t give them the occasional bloody nose and it certainly doesn’t mean we should get turned over inside 20mins each time we play them home or away.

Livi, probably with a smaller budget than us have lost 3-1 at Celtic, drawn with Killie and beaten ourselves and Hibs. Why can they achieve that and we’ve got to suffer the sort of gutless performances we’ve seen thus far? Maybe nobody sent them the the script?

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2 hours ago, billyg said:

Nonsense ! Can you imagine Fergie saying to his players after we won promotion , "It's Celtic lads , they're not our realistic competitors , so if we lose WGAF " :wacko:

Nope , he just sent us out  , you know , the team with about 3 players with top league experience , to beat Celtic at Parkhead twice in the same season !

Realistic competitors ? Don't talk shite !

I agree with the sentiment of your post Billy in the sense of having an “already defeated” attitude. However you can’t seriously compare the difference between us and Celtic back then to today. It’s night and day. The old firm didn’t have everything their own way back then and were reasonably regularly beaten by many teams, not just us. 

Hiw many times have we beaten Celtic in the last 30 years? 3 jump out at me. The Mowbray game, the Mehmet penalty cup tie, and the league cup semi final. In fact how many times do Celtic lose or drop points in a season these days. Very rarely. If it’s ever understandable to think you’re going to lose a game these days, then it’s against Celtic.

To repeat, I agree with the sentiment, but the comparison to the Fergie years is way off the mark. 

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I agree with the sentiment of your post Billy in the sense of having an “already defeated” attitude. However you can’t seriously compare the difference between us and Celtic back then to today. It’s night and day. The old firm didn’t have everything their own way back then and were reasonably regularly beaten by many teams, not just us. 
Hiw many times have we beaten Celtic in the last 30 years? 3 jump out at me. The Mowbray game, the Mehmet penalty cup tie, and the league cup semi final. In fact how many times do Celtic lose or drop points in a season these days. Very rarely. If it’s ever understandable to think you’re going to lose a game these days, then it’s against Celtic.
To repeat, I agree with the sentiment, but the comparison to the Fergie years is way off the mark. 


We’re always going to lose more to the big teams than we win but belief and confidence are so important in sport and give you a realistic platform to challenge the bigger, stronger, faster teams or individuals.

There’s little point in debating this, however, the way things are going for this team they’ll be heading into games against Hamilton and Killie expecting to get turned over unless something changes soon.

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7 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 


We’re always going to lose more to the big teams than we win but belief and confidence are so important in sport and give you a realistic platform to challenge the bigger, stronger, faster teams or individuals.

There’s little point in debating this, however, the way things are going for this team they’ll be heading into games against Hamilton and Killie expecting to get turned over unless something changes soon.

 

I agree Bud, but the point I was making was that we lost to the big teams a helluva lot less back then than we do now.

Take the cup tie at parkhead the season before last. We turned up with great belief. Turned in arguably one of our best performances of that season. Gave Celtic a right good run for their money. However, ultimately we still got comfortably spanked 4-1.

its so much more difficult to get a result against them these days than it was in the past.

As for Stubbs, if he walked out the door tomorrow I’d be delighted, but if we are going to have to sack him, then I suspect he’ll be given at least the first quarter until we have matched up to all the teams in the league. 

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2 hours ago, lenziebud said:

Couldn't agree more. How Stubbs was given this job in front of Jim McIntyre is and was beyond me. 

What a task Jim would have though in turning this shambles round.

Did it at Ross County but would need the board's help big time in January.

Have a funny feeling that McIntryre may just pop up at Tannadice soon.

Did Jim McIntyre not knock back the Falkirk job ? Maybe he know,s something we don,t . 

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1 hour ago, Buddie Marvelous said:

This was  Daniel Morrow's  run down on what was thought to be the top 7 managers to replace Jack Ross....

(as most are still being touted)

Robbie Neilson

Neilson’s successes at Hearts, alongside his intent for his team to play with an emphasis on a free-flowing passing game is likely to excite the Buddies. Following automatic promotion from the Scottish Championship ahead of Hibernian and a substantially wealthier Rangers side, Neilson led the Edinburgh side to the Europa League in his first season in the top flight. His success led to a spell with MK Dons and following a poor spell of one win in 11 matches, Neilson left the club by mutual consent earlier this year.

Verdict

His record in Scotland speaks for itself, but his eagerness to have a crack at a so-called greater opportunity may lead to him using the club as a potential stepping stone if he performs well.

Jim Goodwin

Goodwin is regarded as a legend following the club’s League Cup victory in 2013. After an ill-fated spell as coach at St Mirren, Goodwin has made a post-playing career recovery by taking Alloa back up to the Championship. His side defeated Dumbarton in the promotion play-off, where they recovered from a goal down in the first leg, winning 2-1 on aggregate. That fighting spirit is reminiscent of his days as a Saints player – the fans will be hoping that he can carry his playing success into management.

Verdict

Likely to win immediate backing from supporters given his stature as a player, but his lack of experience in the dugout is a risk. The budget any manager is likely to receive will be less so than the majority of the league, so fighting spirit in the opening season may work in Saints favour.

Alan Stubbs

Led Hibernian to Scottish Cup victory for the first time in 114 years, but was unable to secure promotion from the Scottish Championship in the two years he spent as manager. Upon securing the Scottish Cup, Stubbs left Hibs to join Rotherham United for a short spell, where he managed just one victory in 14 games, conceding 37 goals. Since this role, he has appeared regularly on BT Sport as a pundit.

Verdict

His success in the Scottish Cup is hard to argue against, but lacks the same charisma of Jack Ross which should make him unlikely to make the shortlist.

David Hopkin

Unlucky not to be nominated for PFA Scotland’s Manager of the Year given his achievements at Livingston. Following promotion from Scottish League One, Livingston were among the favourites to be relegated at the beginning of the 2017/18 season. However, Hopkin instilled a high work ethic amongst his players and boasted an incredibly strong January transfer window, signing the likes of Jordan Thompson, Ryan Hardie and Lee Miller who all proved vital in the run in to the play-offs.

Verdict

Likely to be of interest to various other clubs, with Carlisle rumoured to be speaking to him about their vacancy. His achievements are undeniable, but would he leave Livingston for another Premiership club given the backing the board have given him?

Jim McIntyre

Been out of work since September of last year, and many have claimed his sacking led to Ross County’s fall into the Scottish Championship. McIntyre’s recent credentials are strong, having guided the Highland side to League Cup victory, winning the club’s first major honour in 2016. In the same season, McIntyre took the club to their first top-six finish in the top flight. Additionally, he previously led Dunfermline into the top flight in the 2010/11 and has steered Queen of the South to the play-offs.

Verdict

Has expressed his eagerness to return to football, and with a CV such as this, it will not be long before he finds himself back in work. However, has had issues with continuity in his squad, which is reflected upon the fact he signed 49 new players in his three years as County manager.

Danny Lennon

Another club legend having led to St Mirren to their first major honour in 26 years. Lennon’s contract was not renewed by Saints in 2014 after the club finished eighth in the Scottish Premiership. His brand of football was lauded by critics up and down Scotland for their positive style. Following a poor spell at Alloa Athletic and an interim period at Airdrieonians, Lennon is currently the boss at Clyde, where his side were unlucky to miss out on the promotion play-offs.

Verdict

The League Cup win in 2013 will forever live in the memory of Saints fans, however it is likely Lennon will attempt to give David Goodwillie a shortcut back into the top flight following a 20+ goal season with Clyde. Given Goodwillie’s off-field antics, St Mirren should certainly avoid. As for Lennon, many will feel he should never have been sacked in the first place

Graeme Murty

Took over Rangers when the club were in a dire situation as a result of the failed Pedro Caixinha experiment. Rangers ended this season finishing third, with Murty leading the club for the majority of it. Graeme Murty was relieved of his head coaching duties in April but remains a paid employee of the club. Rangers expressed in a statement that they were willing for him to return to the club as youth coach, but right now this seems unlikely.

Verdict

Would be an complete step in the wrong direction for St Mirren. In a season where the club mostly needs stability in order to survive, the last thing they need is a manager with a short history of instability.

 

 

Caldwell is missing maybe not for long :whistle

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8 hours ago, helpmaboab said:

Alan no doubt negotiated the 3 year contract.......

AS........."If you want me here, I will require a three year contract "

OUR BOD......"Aye, OK, anything you say Alan. When cun yi start?"

AS........"the morra"

For me I just can’t believe he was given the deal. GLS might say ‘we made a mistake’ but it’s dumbfounding that anyone can make such a mistake. 

I didn’t think he should even of been near the running for the job in the summer and was gobsmacked at the 3 year deal. Surely to god someone would of said to him ‘what the hell are you thinking even suggesting 3 years’ 

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Just now, bazil85 said:

For me I just can’t believe he was given the deal. GLS might say ‘we made a mistake’ but it’s dumbfounding that anyone can make such a mistake. 

I didn’t think he should even of been near the running for the job in the summer and was gobsmacked at the 3 year deal. Surely to god someone would of said to him ‘what the hell are you thinking even suggesting 3 years’ 

We don’t know the ins and outs of the contract. We don’t know what sort of performance related clauses that could potentially trigger a parting of ways. We don’t know if there’s a probationary period involving maybe a reduced settlement fee. 

I don’t think we can criticise GLS too much without knowing what’s involved in the deal. 

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3 hours ago, davidg said:

Not for me. 

If GLS is going to pull the trigger get McIntyre in to try sort it out. 

No to McIntyre please. I can’t believe that after facing Aberdeen, Hearts and Rangers we’re ready to sack our manager it’s ridiculous. I don’t see my many point points forthcoming but he has to be allowed a chance to take on teams at our end of the league before deciding. Once again how does JJ know all this info ? Can you tell us what you have heard JJ ? 

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No to McIntyre please. I can’t believe that after facing Aberdeen, Hearts and Rangers we’re ready to sack our manager it’s ridiculous. I don’t see my many point points forthcoming but he has to be allowed a chance to take on teams at our end of the league before deciding. Once again how does JJ know all this info ? Can you tell us what you have heard JJ ? 


Yep, he should be judged on results and performances against teams like Livingston.

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On 8/30/2018 at 1:03 PM, LargsBud said:

would suggest its more a case of them not wanting to give Stubbs any more money to spend based on the standard of players he has brought in so far.

If we've got cash, which we probably do, i wouldn't trust him with it.

I think this is the most astute observation to date. Our owner was / is a business man who earned a few bob doing businessy like thingmybobs, might it not be the case as per the above post that he has finally thought HOLY SH*T  what's going on here and just slowed things down a tad to see what he (AS)  can do with what he has until January.  I appreciate; as many others on here have said that nobody expected much from the Hearts game (myself included) really the most recent game that causes worry is the LIvingstone one; but it is a new squad and many probably will not make the step up, although perhaps a few will and gel with the likes of McGinn et al and develop into a squad that becomes better and wins 'some' games in the coming months.  We are where we are and I think we have to trust the owner to pilot St Mirren forward as best he can with what staff he has to hand.

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Perhaps someone would be good enough to do a wee list of the teams we are not expected to do well against.
It’s not the results that are necessarily the issue , it’s the performances . Overall we have been rank rotten and we seem to be going backwards without any indication that the management team know how to halt it.

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Ultimately it’s results based business and managers stand or fall on the basis of those results.

However, there are other indicators, some only available to those close to the inner workings of the club, that will influence decisions also.

Recruitment has been debated ad nauseam so I’ll leave that for now. The other key factor is team harmony. If players are unhappy, for whatever reason, then they’re not likely to produce their best.

We’ve no idea what it’s like at Ralston but the body language of the players and the rumours emanating of player unrest don’t suggest things are good.

FWIW I don’t believe we will fire him this week but when you look at his body of work since joining the axe can’t be far if things don’t improve quickly.

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5 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Perhaps someone would be good enough to do a wee list of the teams we are not expected to do well against.
It’s not the results that are necessarily the issue , it’s the performances . Overall we have been rank rotten and we seem to be going backwards without any indication that the management team know how to halt it.

See League within a League thread ya lazy b'strd. :lol:

Edited by faraway saint

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11 hours ago, shull said:

A BOD ? what is that ?

IMMENSE FEEL GOOD FACTOR ?????

Our previous Manager fecked off and left a shit legacy.

Even extended the contract of one of the worst goalies we have ever had. 

Tch; tch, I'll grant you Samson is not the best goalie the club has had (Denis Connaghan for me) but he is nothing like the worst either (remember Scrimigour).  I know you love him really because you always hurt the one you love.  :lol:

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30 minutes ago, norrie82 said:

No to McIntyre please. I can’t believe that after facing Aberdeen, Hearts and Rangers we’re ready to sack our manager it’s ridiculous. I don’t see my many point points forthcoming but he has to be allowed a chance to take on teams at our end of the league before deciding. Once again how does JJ know all this info ? Can you tell us what you have heard JJ ? 

What info? :lol: You don’t half get your knickers in a twist for Christ sake.

My opinion is he won’t last long at all, something is clearly wrong behind the scenes, it’s absolutely toxic,  you would have to be an absolute muppet not to see that.

Where did they budget go we had set aside for bringing in Miller? All of a sudden we had to ship players out before we brought anybody else in?

Stubbs blaming everybody but himself in his interviews, the writing is on the wall.

 

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1 hour ago, melmac said:

Maybe SMiSA should be formulating a poll to ask members about it, they are a fairly large shareholder after all.  No doubt they'll fall into line behind the Chairman. 

....and this is exactly where fan ownership falls down. 

The board run the club not the fans. 

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