Give Alan Stubbs A Chance

[Ayrshire Saints]

6 minutes ago, RichardBuddie said:

Got to respectfully disagree Ricky with the poisoned chalice term, these boys just won a league, some intelligent early to mid window signings to augment the winning team would have clearly been better than what we have now. Obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing but we are in big trouble here and the teams will be queuing up to give us a pasting.

I unfortunately don’t have the answers but if we carry on like this we are doomed!!

Exactly, the poisoned chalice myth is the line peddled by the anti Ross idiot's, surprised at Ricky going down that route. 

[Edinbuddie]

4-1 at half time yesterday, with the previous 3 games over after 20-25mins.

That suggests fundamental issues with the players and/or the way we’re setting up.

The manager had decided to put it down to the players in every after match interview. That’s not clever management and it’s not going to create a happy dressing room. The good managers tend to criticise players in the dressing room but defend them and take the blame when talking in after match interviews.

The Board have a difficult decision to make. It’s not a decision that anyone should need to consider at this stage of the season but it’s the performances on the park that have led to the question coming up.

[djchapsticks]

46 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Agree Shull. He followed  a Club Saint and inherited a Poisoned Chalice in a squad that had been considered not fit for purpose in the top league.  He has had to appoint a management team and source players in a shortened period and deal with a few Prima Donnas. He is criticised for trying to play football, rather than close up shop whilst JR was lionised for doing the same in the lower league. Confused?  So am I.  Ex Old Firm players who have become managers here are not well received it seems,  nor have they been too successful  Hay,  Craig,  Murray and Rae come to mind.  Hoped  to reach 7th or 8th at best and hope for 9th or 10th at worst. We are 3 points off 5th but currently sit second bottom on goal difference. Give the guy a break.  Give him till January at least. 

Alex Smith, Alex Ferguson, Gus McPherson.

See? I can be selective as well.

Absolutely hee-haw to do with Old Firm allegiance. In fact, you even mentioned a manager in that list (Tommy Craig) who never even played for Rangers or Celtic.

Anything you say should most certainly be taken with a massive pinch of salt. If you told me water was wet, I'd dip my toe in to make sure.

Edited September 2, 2018 by djchapsticks

[whydowebother]

Losing away to Aberdeen ( second best in country last few years ) Losing to Sevco spending millions, away to a strong Hearts team - None of that is a disgrace or unexpected.

The Livingston defeat however, that’s the one we should be most disappointed in.

But to call for Stubbs to go after 4 League games ? Get a grip ffs!

Give the team & management a chance.

[proudtobeabuddy]

5 minutes ago, whydowebother said:

Losing away to Aberdeen ( second best in country last few years ) Losing to Sevco spending millions, away to a strong Hearts team - None of that is a disgrace or unexpected.

The Livingston defeat however, that’s the one we should be most disappointed in.

But to call for Stubbs to go after 4 League games ? Get a grip ffs!

Give the team & management a chance.

He's not got it, so we prolong the agony just to make sure?

[Paisleyporridge]

I think people need patience and to accept that this is a team and management in transition, and that they are doing so under challenging circumstances.  Bear in mind that this management team was appointed after a process and only then could they start to assemble their team; that the McGinn money only clarified late in the transfer window; that the Betfred was very early in the life of the new team; that 50% of the premiership experience has been against top teams.  We have had two possibly winnable games in the league- and we won won one of them.

I also think it’s a bit of a numbers game with signing guys from English reserves/ lower leagues.  Some will work out, some will not.  Get used to it. 

Alan Stubbs was a defender and captain of teams. I trust him to sort out our defense. 

Having said all this, I suspect that the next transfer window will be Stubbs’ opportunity to plug the holes that he finds over the first three months. So I’m strapped in and will be philosophical until then.  However, I do expect to see some stabilization before January. 

 

[Knightswoodsaint]

 I must admit I am not nor ever have been a Stubbs fan as a manager but as already mentioned given our start Celtic Rangers and hearts in our first 5 league games with Aberdeen away thrown in for good measure in the cup he needs to be given the first quarter then it can be looked at. GLS will not get rid this early given the opposition we have played in the league and are about to in our next game. This is a team in transition and yes looks very disjointed right now and maybe Stubbs isn’t the man for the job but does anyone really think the board are going to bag the manager at this precise moment. 

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, Knightswoodsaint said:

 I must admit I am not nor ever have been a Stubbs fan as a manager but as already mentioned given our start Celtic Rangers and hearts in our first 5 league games with Aberdeen away thrown in for good measure in the cup he needs to be given the first quarter then it can be looked at. GLS will not get rid this early given the opposition we have played in the league and are about to in our next game. This is a team in transition and yes looks very disjointed right now and maybe Stubbs isn’t the man for the job but does anyone really think the board are going to bag the manager at this precise moment. 

JJ says it's happening, so that's good enough for plenty on here. 

[windae cleaner]

18 minutes ago, whydowebother said:

Losing away to Aberdeen ( second best in country last few years ) Losing to Sevco spending millions, away to a strong Hearts team - None of that is a disgrace or unexpected.

The Livingston defeat however, that’s the one we should be most disappointed in.

But to call for Stubbs to go after 4 League games ? Get a grip ffs!

Give the team & management a chance.

On the face of it you're right

4 games is no time to judge a team

I want Stubbs to succeed as it doesn't look good sacking a guy so early and at great cost too

But with Craig i knew after a couple of games he was a no no

Stubbs i was willing to give benefit of the doubt right up to Fri night

But he failed to address two areas of his squad that needed strengthening

Yesterday no surprise game finished after 30 mins for the 4th game in a row

Would a new manager get anymore of this squad assembled

Jack Ross couldn't do it with Alec Rae squad and things only improved once he got his own men

So do we stick with Stubbs (On my knees here) and pray for things pick up until X-mas as nothing will change with the squad anyway

Or get a new man in remember Stubbs replacement at Rotherham lasted 5 games as he could do nothing with the squad he left

Decisions which would have been easier if he wasn't on a 3 year deal

Could we also cut out the crap aimed at Stubbs

Nice man shouldn't be subjected to abuse because he's struggling at his job 

[Hendo]

19 minutes ago, Paisleyporridge said:

I think people need patience and to accept that this is a team and management in transition, and that they are doing so under challenging circumstances.  Bear in mind that this management team was appointed after a process and only then could they start to assemble their team; that the McGinn money only clarified late in the transfer window; that the Betfred was very early in the life of the new team; that 50% of the premiership experience has been against top teams.  We have had two possibly winnable games in the league- and we won won one of them.

I also think it’s a bit of a numbers game with signing guys from English reserves/ lower leagues.  Some will work out, some will not.  Get used to it. 

Alan Stubbs was a defender and captain of teams. I trust him to sort out our defense. 

Having said all this, I suspect that the next transfer window will be Stubbs’ opportunity to plug the holes that he finds over the first three months. So I’m strapped in and will be philosophical until then.  However, I do expect to see some stabilization before January. 

 

It's delusional to think this current team will get enough points to keep Stubbs in post till January. If the board had faith in him, he'd surely have been given money in the last week to address the deficiencies in the squad. 

[DLBud]

Agree Shull. He followed  a Club Saint and inherited a Poisoned Chalice in a squad that had been considered not fit for purpose in the top league.  He has had to appoint a management team and source players in a shortened period and deal with a few Prima Donnas. He is criticised for trying to play football, rather than close up shop whilst JR was lionised for doing the same in the lower league. Confused?  So am I.  Ex Old Firm players who have become managers here are not well received it seems,  nor have they been too successful  Hay,  Craig,  Murray and Rae come to mind.  Hoped  to reach 7th or 8th at best and hope for 9th or 10th at worst. We are 3 points off 5th but currently sit second bottom on goal difference. Give the guy a break.  Give him till January at least. 

“Poisoned chalice”, “prima donnas”, “trying to play football” (that was the best one btw) and a veiled inference that, as a support, we have an issue with ex-old firm players.

To be honest Ricky, I don’t know where to start with that post.

If he gets fired in the coming days or weeks it won’t simply be down to results. It will clearly be an indication that things are not good behind the scenes IMO.

However, let’s not shift the blame from where it rightly sits for this omni-shambles. His team is completely shite and he’s been backed considerably in building that team. Is it 11 signings now and we haven’t managed to sign a decent centre half, a left back, any real width or pace and a proven goalscorer at this level?

If Jack had stayed we would certainly have had our struggles this year but do you really think it would have been anything like this?

[andrew87]

Was disappointed at the appointment of Stubbs and he's done nothing to change my view of him. Don't see him going anywhere though til at least after the Hamilton game.

[Paisleyporridge]

9 minutes ago, Hendo said:

It's delusional to think this current team will get enough points to keep Stubbs in post till January. If the board had faith in him, he'd surely have been given money in the last week to address the deficiencies in the squad. 

Hendo- it’s not a board game. You can’t just pay money into the bank and get a Hotel instantly on Park Lane.  Even if the board were able to make the funds available, it needs another party- the right party- to deal.  Sorry but it’s a real stretch to imply the board have no faith. 

[FTOF]

38 minutes ago, windae cleaner said:

On the face of it you're right

4 games is no time to judge a team

I want Stubbs to succeed as it doesn't look good sacking a guy so early and at great cost too

But with Craig i knew after a couple of games he was a no no

Stubbs i was willing to give benefit of the doubt right up to Fri night

But he failed to address two areas of his squad that needed strengthening

Yesterday no surprise game finished after 30 mins for the 4th game in a row

Would a new manager get anymore of this squad assembled

Jack Ross couldn't do it with Alec Rae squad and things only improved once he got his own men

So do we stick with Stubbs (On my knees here) and pray for things pick up until X-mas as nothing will change with the squad anyway

Or get a new man in remember Stubbs replacement at Rotherham lasted 5 games as he could do nothing with the squad he left

Decisions which would have been easier if he wasn't on a 3 year deal

Could we also cut out the crap aimed at Stubbs

Nice man shouldn't be subjected to abuse because he's struggling at his job 

Have to agree with all of that.

I wasn't impressed by any of the candidates for the job, but when Stubbs was appointed I've backed him from the outset. Albeit, I can see the glaring errors he has made and I'm fast running out of goodwill towards him.

FWIW I think any manager would find it difficult to put together a competitive team from the squad that has been assembled over the summer.

We'll most likely get nothing from the green bigot game. All I ask for is a competitive performance where we keep it tighter than we have in defence compared to recent weeks. It would be nice for the game not to be over by half time, but,even in recent times, better teams than our current one have had their arses felt in the first half by the green bigots at St.Mirren Park.

Let's see what happens in the Hamilton game. It's a game we should be looking to win. If we do win or get a point through an improved and competitive performance, then maybe we could build on that.

Lose in the manner that we have done recently, then it's hard to see a way back for Stubbs et al.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by FTOF

[FTOF]

Double post.

Made a rip roaring James Hunt of an attempt to edit.

Edited September 2, 2018 by FTOF

[proudtobeabuddy]

15 minutes ago, helpmaboab said:

Let's get rid if you, that will at least stop some of the agony. You're cheap to get rid of. Just a press of a button......lol

Shut it ya big girls blouse!

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

43 minutes ago, windae cleaner said:

On the face of it you're right

4 games is no time to judge a team

I want Stubbs to succeed as it doesn't look good sacking a guy so early and at great cost too

But with Craig i knew after a couple of games he was a no no

Stubbs i was willing to give benefit of the doubt right up to Fri night

But he failed to address two areas of his squad that needed strengthening

Yesterday no surprise game finished after 30 mins for the 4th game in a row

Would a new manager get anymore of this squad assembled

Jack Ross couldn't do it with Alec Rae squad and things only improved once he got his own men

So do we stick with Stubbs (On my knees here) and pray for things pick up until X-mas as nothing will change with the squad anyway

Or get a new man in remember Stubbs replacement at Rotherham lasted 5 games as he could do nothing with the squad he left

Decisions which would have been easier if he wasn't on a 3 year deal

Could we also cut out the crap aimed at Stubbs

Nice man shouldn't be subjected to abuse because he's struggling at his job 

I don't see it bad or terrible for Livingston or Falkirk. Make no mistake We will be well adrift come Christmas if there is no change. 

[StanleySaint]

As I said on one of the match threads my issue is that as an acomplished defender he can't coach his players to defend for ghe first 20 mins and at least get us a foothold in games, added to that now is his willingness to criticise his players in public but not accept any personal responsibility for any failings makes his chances of forming a team in a team game very difficult. I don't know the answer but he needs to do something to get the players playing for him or it is only a matter of time until he is gone.

[St.Ricky]

2 hours ago, DLBud said:

 

“Poisoned chalice”, “prima donnas”, “trying to play football” (that was the best one btw) and a veiled inference that, as a support, we have an issue with ex-old firm players.

To be honest Ricky, I don’t know where to start with that post.

If he gets fired in the coming days or weeks it won’t simply be down to results. It will clearly be an indication that things are not good behind the scenes IMO.

However, let’s not shift the blame from where it rightly sits for this omni-shambles. His team is completely shite and he’s been backed considerably in building that team. Is it 11 signings now and we haven’t managed to sign a decent centre half, a left back, any real width or pace and a proven goalscorer at this level?

If Jack had stayed we would certainly have had our struggles this year but do you really think it would have been anything like this?
 

 

There are things we agree on and things we don't.  Yes..we were always going to find it tough this year. But...whoever followed JR would be under additional pressure and Stubbs is. Experienced players know to keep their mouths shut and get on with things. They haven't. .I don't think that helps anybody. Stubbs has continued to try (try) to play football from the back. On recruitment I agree that we didn't bring in the 3 experienced quality players any manager would have wanted. Is that down to AS. I doubt it. Are things good behind the scenes?  Doesn't look like it. Time to back or sack coming up but player or fan power rarely ends well IMO.

Edited September 2, 2018 by St.Ricky

[St.Ricky]

6 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Exactly, the poisoned chalice myth is the line peddled by the anti Ross idiot's, surprised at Ricky going down that route. 

Ayrshire. I was / am a fan of Jack Ross. I guess we all were. My point is that he was a difficult act to follow for any manager but even more so in the circumstances involved. ..coming off the back of a season where he saved the club from relegation and followed it up with  a Title Win. Then goes and leaves after vascilating for a few weeks. Unless I was unemployed as a manager, I wouldn't have touched the job and I am a Saint Mirren Fan. Those we considered seriously fell into the unemployed category. Stubbs has a difficult job to do against the backdrop of JR and the step up to the Premiership. It's all about opinions.  I don't know how good a manager he might turn out to be at the club. We certainly won't if we cut him adrift or allow players to dictate to the club or play to the gallery. Only my opinion.  I could be wrong...it's certainly been the case before.

[DougJamie]

6 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

He's not got it, so we prolong the agony just to make sure?

Our fans ( on here)are infamous for  wanting managers sacked. Murray and TC stick out..... however i am questioning the state of the teams mindset before they run on the park. That has to be addressed. Smacks of Clough at Leeds....

Edited September 2, 2018 by DougJamie

[FTOF]

13 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Our fans ( on here)are infamous for  wanting managers sacked. Murray and TC stick out..... however i am questioning the state of the teams mindset before they run on the park. That has to be addressed. Smacks of Clough at Leeds....

Go on to P&B and you'll see supporters of Dundee and Falkirk that have engaged in exactly the same manner, over the past couple of weeks.

Other than the team that we support, we're not unique in any respect when it comes to football supporters.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by FTOF

[DougJamie]

23 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Go on to P&B and you'll see supporters of Dundee and Falkirk that have engaged in exactly the same manner, over the past couple of weeks.

Other than the team that we support, we're not unique in any respect when it comes to football supporters.

 

Dundee have been top league a good few years now and United flopping makes them diff. Bairns are bottom of championship with 0 pts. We are just off league title. So stick by it.  A few on here are dreadful supporters....  with thousands and thousands of posts.... 

[proudtobeabuddy]

1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

Our fans ( on here)are infamous for  wanting managers sacked. Murray and TC stick out..... however i am questioning the state of the teams mindset before they run on the park. That has to be addressed. Smacks of Clough at Leeds....

I can only speak for myself, i try to be reasonable when it comes to giving the manger a chance but my gut feeling is telling me there will be no improvement while Stubbs is the manager. Like others, i care too much about my team to accept what's going on but ultimately, it's GS and TF's call.

Edited September 2, 2018 by proudtobeabuddy

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I can only speak for myself, i try to be reasonable when it comes to giving the manger a chance but my gut feeling is telling me there will be no improvement while Stubbs is the manager. Like others, i care too much about my team to accept what's going but ultimately, it's GS and TF's call.

By starting a "Stubbs can go now" thread before the end of August?