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The capacity debacle


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3 minutes ago, alanb said:

I would suggest that no away fans of any club can be considered for admission until all ST holders and patg fans are accommodated ( OF fans seem to be getting considered for South stand as usual)

Outrageous that they'll happily displace a full stand of supporters in a stadium that they don't even know if the Main Stand will be open, to accommodate Rangers and Celtic.

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32 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Outrageous that they'll happily displace a full stand of supporters in a stadium that they don't even know if the Main Stand will be open, to accommodate Rangers and Celtic.

I'm sure our first home game vs either of them is 23 October, which you would like to think by that point, the full capacity will be open without any restrictions, if the OF are allowed full capacity moving forward.

It was probably just referenced due to previous season arrangements to keep south stand fans in the loop over same as before, so that it does not turn into another thing on the list for us to kick up about.

 

 

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The club have repeatedly defended their action in giving over the south stand to the old scum by saying that if we have more season ticket holders, there would be no need to give them the seats. 
Im afraid that after a few seasons of good solid ST sales , this current debacle may have knocked several hundred off this seasons number and how many will return as ST holders in future .? 

in business, it can take years of good work to build confidence and support for your aims and weeks to destroy all the good work by taking your clients for granted . 

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I see our CEO appears to be leading the charge with RDC to get a full stadium. I have therefore  assumed that we are more likely to get fewer fans than more given given the level of confidence I have in his ability. Ali de Foy comes close second in my lack of confidence table. Maybe they are all super competent and I'm talking rubbish which is very possible but I'll take some persuading

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12 minutes ago, Oldfellow said:

I see our CEO appears to be leading the charge with RDC to get a full stadium. I have therefore  assumed that we are more likely to get fewer fans than more given given the level of confidence I have in his ability. Ali de Foy comes close second in my lack of confidence table. Maybe they are all super competent and I'm talking rubbish which is very possible but I'll take some persuading

Where are you seeing this about TF heading the charge to council ?
I can’t find anything which might indicate we are pushing them , I may well be wrong on that .

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Complacent or dim - take your pick.  If it really is the council who are mandating the 1039 then the club should ask them why.  If the answer is ‘cos we say so’ then take it to the next level at the SG and ask why although based on the ramblings from John Swinney yesterday on ‘vertical drinking’ I wouldn’t expect a sensible answer from there either.
it appears from some of the comments on here and P&B that some bubbles have been successful in the ballot for Saturday which theoretically at least should mean at least a few others should be allowed to attend while still observing the social distancing rules.  It was evident from the pictures from the thistle game that most fans were in groups of 2 or more so I wonder if that was how the seats were allocated or was it because people ignored the social distancing and just sat where they liked.
On a slightly different note regarding the chairman’s statement about the St Johnstone game my son and grandson will, by the looks of it, not be able to attend since they are emigrating (although they will be back for numerous cup finals, etc).  They did not renew their season tickets and assumed that they would be able to attend simply by buying tickets but there is so much doubt about that we have now booked hospitality at Renfrew juniors on that date thereby giving a club that really appreciate your custom a few hundred quid.
 
Correct, The way I read it if you have more than 1 season ticket "linked to your account" if you were successful in ballot all linked tickets had a seat lo and behold I got a ticket for Hearts so my 3 "linked tickets got 1 too.
I’ve read numerous points of view on the whole capacity thing over the last few days. All things considered I’m still of them view the club’s handling of the situation has been completely amateurish and shambolic. That’s despite me having a few days to calm down from my initial reaction. As others have said it’s a complete kick in the stones to loyal fans who go home and away as much as possible to support the team.

Their reasoning from the club for the situation is vague at best and communication is a shambles also. I don’t tend to favour the word customer when it comes to supporting your team but any other business bends over backwards not upset their customers or at least resolve issues to keep them happy. Well it appears there are a sh**load of unhappy loyal fans/ customers out there!
As my quote above regarding Hearts Ballot I attended the ticket office yesterday and today they are obviously run off their feet spoke to the same woman both days and she told me they have been on receiving end of some not so happy customers.

I did mention the lack of communication from upstairs was causing 99% off the problem she actually put it quite politely that it certainly hasn't helped their job.

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7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Correct, The way I read it if you have more than 1 season ticket "linked to your account" if you were successful in ballot all linked tickets had a seat lo and behold I got a ticket for Hearts so my 3 "linked tickets got 1 too. As my quote above regarding Hearts Ballot I attended the ticket office yesterday and today they are obviously run off their feet spoke to the same woman both days and she told me they have been on receiving end of some not so happy customers.

I did mention the lack of communication from upstairs was causing 99% off the problem she actually put it quite politely that it certainly hasn't helped their job.
 

I feel for the ones in the firing line because they're always the ones who get anger directed at them when in fact it's those at the top who deserve all the stick they're getting. As I've stated previously my 2 brothers and nephew were successful...why the club couldn't allow family bubbles is beyond me. Are we that unpopular at Renfrewshire council? 1039 is a complete and utter joke especially when you see the numbers allowed at Falkirk and the fact that just a few days later days later the OF are allowed full capacity. Even this weekend Celtic are allowed 25,000 at their game which is roughly 40% capacity so why are we allowed roughly 12%? Something stinks!

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5 hours ago, div said:

I think John tried to explain the situation, but I'm not convinced his statement really helped.

We are told that we have to leave two seats free and can only use every other row in our stand because of the distance between rows etc...

That's all well and good in isolation but when you see several hundred fans in both the home and away end standing right next to each other last weekend just a few miles up the road in Motherwell then it doesn't really stack up.

Lanarkshire is operating under level 0 restrictions at the moment the same as Renfrewshire is, so something isn't right here.

We've got Glasgow City Council offering FULL CAPACITY at Ibrox and Parkhead next midweek, 50000 & 60000 respectively, yet we are supposed to swallow that we can only have 1039 in our stadium this weekend, when the advertised lowest guideline for level 0 is 2000?

It doesn't add up at all and you can completely understand why fans are not happy.

I'm not expecting the chairman of the club to throw the Council under the bus here but something isn't right, St.Mirren have been given an absolutely terrible deal here and to compound all of that the club's communication with it's most loyal fans on the matter has been an absolute shambles.

There isn't even an acknowledgement on the official website that the ballot has been drawn FFS!

Season ticket holders who didn't get a ticket are left completely in the dark, why didn't they get an email too even if it was just to say "Sorry you didn't get one this time". Nothing at all!

These are the punters who pitched up £300+ last season and who didn't get to set foot in the stadium ONCE, yet we were asked to pony up the same £300+ again this season and almost 3000 of us jumped through several hoops to do so. Then we don't even get a proper explanation of why we're still locked out, we aren't told the ballot has been run and we don't get a courtesy email telling us we've not been fortunate enough to get a ticket!

It's all very very basic stuff here and frankly it's not good enough.

Even the Season Ticket TV access on Saturday is a mess. I've read the article on the website telling me I need to use a new login and password for this season, yet I can absolutely guarantee that my 76 year old season ticket holding dad will be utterly confused as to what the f**k is going on - he doesn't read the website and he doesn't visit social media - so how the f**k is he supposed to know how to watch the game - a game that he has paid for the same as all the rest of us mugs.

An absolute utter shambles.

Brilliant post. The clubs a joke at present. The public relations has been a shambles. Honestly let’s bin this # in you we trust because really you just want our cash but won’t deliver a premier league experience. It’s appalling the lack of care the clubs board have shown for us. The messaging has been terrible. Junior teams are run better than our team 

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8 hours ago, faraway saint said:

How many, exactly, are dying from attending football matches? 

Bringing in people that "are still dying" is way out of context and, again, needless emotional attacks on people who are simply wanting to get back to a normal life within the rules that other clubs seem to be able to manage. 

If football matches are the deadly killers you're insinuation there must be an awful lot of football fans who will not be attending after the Euros. 

I am not trying to be a scaremonger here, I was answering a question which was; "do i really think people will die because of attending football matches," my honest answer is that it is absolutely certain that some will, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.  Now I am not saying there will be hundreds or even dozens............ but one only has to look at the rise in cases in Japan at the Olympics (and remember this is with NO CROWDS) to be certain that there is bound to be some transmission of the virus particularly among big...... and oddly enough both Celtic and Rangers have had the all clear for full houses, I rest my case, with no great pleasure I might add. And if I am wrong then more fooll me and people will still be here that might otherwise not.

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15 minutes ago, jaybee said:

I am not trying to be a scaremonger here, I was answering a question which was; "do i really think people will die because of attending football matches," my honest answer is that it is absolutely certain that some will, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.  Now I am not saying there will be hundreds or even dozens............ but one only has to look at the rise in cases in Japan at the Olympics (and remember this is with NO CROWDS) to be certain that there is bound to be some transmission of the virus particularly among big...... and oddly enough both Celtic and Rangers have had the all clear for full houses, I rest my case, with no great pleasure I might add. And if I am wrong then more fooll me and people will still be here that might otherwise not.

The numbers that are dying are so low, and every one is tragic, that there is more danger from many other illness's and dangers.

People die every day.

As for Japan, aye case numbers are rising but there was 9 deaths yesterday, that's the number, along with ICU numbers, that are important, we should, in the UK, be long past getting our knickers in a twist about the case numbers.

The link between case numbers and deaths has been well and truly broken.

There has to come a time, and we are at that time IMO, that we risk is so low we return to normal life, and there are still mask wearing to help reduce transmission.

 

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Given the fact that both versions of the scum have been granted 100% capacity for upcoming games now would be the perfect time to return to giving them only one stand when they come to our place.  Given what we are having to put up with at the moment they can hardly feel aggrieved and if they do consider themselves hard done by they can feck off.

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32 minutes ago, jaybee said:

I am not trying to be a scaremonger here, I was answering a question which was; "do i really think people will die because of attending football matches," my honest answer is that it is absolutely certain that some will, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.  Now I am not saying there will be hundreds or even dozens............ but one only has to look at the rise in cases in Japan at the Olympics (and remember this is with NO CROWDS) to be certain that there is bound to be some transmission of the virus particularly among big...... and oddly enough both Celtic and Rangers have had the all clear for full houses, I rest my case, with no great pleasure I might add. And if I am wrong then more fooll me and people will still be here that might otherwise not.

55% of the adult population of Japan have yet to receive a single vaccine.

90% of the adult population of Scotland have had at least one dose.

 

The situations aren't quite like for like comparable. Scotland is a far more protected country currently than Japan is.

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9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

The numbers that are dying are so low, and every one is tragic, that there is more danger from many other illness's and dangers.

People die every day.

As for Japan, aye case numbers are rising but there was 9 deaths yesterday, that's the number, along with ICU numbers, that are important, we should, in the UK, be long past getting our knickers in a twist about the case numbers.

The link between case numbers and deaths has been well and truly broken.

There has to come a time, and we are at that time IMO, that we risk is so low we return to normal life, and there are still mask wearing to help reduce transmission.

 

There are currently 25 more prominent causes of death in the UK than covid and bear in mind, this is us coming out of a third wave we were told would be catastrophic.

I understand Jaybee's hesitancy due to having lost people they were close to but as you say, there has to come a time where you accept that it has been driven down by a scientific achievement that a few years ago was completely unthinkable. Without vaccines or even with vaccines being developed at their usual rates, we'd have been left with this ripping through populations for 5-10 years before we could effectively jag folk against it.

Future vaccine technology will only serve to drive cases and deaths further down as well. It is always forgotten that this is just the first generation of covid vaccines and that research is always ongoing to improve them.

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1 hour ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I feel for the ones in the firing line because they're always the ones who get anger directed at them when in fact it's those at the top who deserve all the stick they're getting. As I've stated previously my 2 brothers and nephew were successful...why the club couldn't allow family bubbles is beyond me. Are we that unpopular at Renfrewshire council? 1039 is a complete and utter joke especially when you see the numbers allowed at Falkirk and the fact that just a few days later days later the OF are allowed full capacity. Even this weekend Celtic are allowed 25,000 at their game which is roughly 40% capacity so why are we allowed roughly 12%? Something stinks!

It’s not even ‘family bubbles’ required. It’s surely just people that are willing to be seated as part of a group - exact same as a restaurant setting. 
 

I previously defended the club by saying that the allocation of group spacing was not that straightforward. But having now seen them receive group allocations via Google forms, and having seen the new ticket platform, it should totally have been achievable to allocate seating in groups and maximise attendances. 
 

It looks like they’ve simply measured out the 1m plan and applied it to the ticket platform. Run and ballot and then leave the rest of it to the fans as self-serve for the tickets, sticking rigidly to the programmed 1m plan.  
 

Realistically, the club should have sought the applications (single or group) from fans, encouraging supporters to group together if they felt comfortable, and then the club should have controlled the allocation of seating to maximise attendance. 
 

As it is, I’ve got a mate who’s family group have been allocated 6 tickets and this will consume 16 seats if I’m not mistaken. Bonkers! 
 

I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes but if the club’s get out is that they’ve not got the resources to do that then I’m afraid that is a disgrace. 

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3 minutes ago, Maboza said:

It’s not even ‘family bubbles’ required. It’s surely just people that are willing to be seated as part of a group - exact same as a restaurant setting. 
 

I previously defended the club by saying that the allocation of group spacing was not that straightforward. But having now seen them receive group allocations via Google forms, and having seen the new ticket platform, it should totally have been achievable to allocate seating in groups and maximise attendances. 
 

It looks like they’ve simply measured out the 1m plan and applied it to the ticket platform. Run and ballot and then leave the rest of it to the fans as self-serve for the tickets, sticking rigidly to the programmed 1m plan.  
 

Realistically, the club should have sought the applications (single or group) from fans, encouraging supporters to group together if they felt comfortable, and then the club should have controlled the allocation of seating to maximise attendance. 
 

As it is, I’ve got a mate who’s family group have been allocated 6 tickets and this will consume 16 seats if I’m not mistaken. Bonkers! 
 

I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes but if the club’s get out is that they’ve not got the resources to do that then I’m afraid that is a disgrace. 

Exactly. I'm sorry but they are quick to take our ST money each year ( which I happily pay for) Yet we get this utter shambles thrown at us without a proper explanation, just some vague blame the council line trotted out. If it is the council then why do they hate us so much? doesn't seem to be the case at most other Scottish clubs.

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6 minutes ago, Maboza said:

It’s not even ‘family bubbles’ required. It’s surely just people that are willing to be seated as part of a group - exact same as a restaurant setting. 
 

I previously defended the club by saying that the allocation of group spacing was not that straightforward. But having now seen them receive group allocations via Google forms, and having seen the new ticket platform, it should totally have been achievable to allocate seating in groups and maximise attendances. 
 

It looks like they’ve simply measured out the 1m plan and applied it to the ticket platform. Run and ballot and then leave the rest of it to the fans as self-serve for the tickets, sticking rigidly to the programmed 1m plan.  
 

Realistically, the club should have sought the applications (single or group) from fans, encouraging supporters to group together if they felt comfortable, and then the club should have controlled the allocation of seating to maximise attendance. 
 

As it is, I’ve got a mate who’s family group have been allocated 6 tickets and this will consume 16 seats if I’m not mistaken. Bonkers! 
 

I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes but if the club’s get out is that they’ve not got the resources to do that then I’m afraid that is a disgrace. 

Agree with this - it really shouldn’t have been too difficult.  They know who the ST holders are so they could simply have sent out 1039 invites to attend each of the home games to date.  Start at the centre of the main stand or another random point and work round the stadium until you reach 1039 and for each refusal keep going (I can’t make the Hearts game) until the magic number is reached.  Then for the next game start where you left off for the next 1039 in line.  Groups would be kept together and by this stage all season ticket holders would have been offered at least one game based on ST sales to date.  
 

The above might be too simplistic but if other clubs can manage the allocation of seats to many thousands more fans than a mere 1039 maybe a simple approach is all that would have been required.

 

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Agree with this - it really shouldn’t have been too difficult.  They know who the ST holders are so they could simply have sent out 1039 invites to attend each of the home games to date.  Start at the centre of the main stand or another random point and work round the stadium until you reach 1039 and for each refusal keep going (I can’t make the Hearts game) until the magic number is reached.  Then for the next game start where you left off for the next 1039 in line.  Groups would be kept together and by this stage all season ticket holders would have been offered at least one game based on ST sales to date.  
 
The above might be too simplistic but if other clubs can manage the allocation of seats to many thousands more fans than a mere 1039 maybe a simple approach is all that would have been required.
 
Ideal but for one wee thing...
The club had to ask US to provide THEM with our seat details when reregistering, adding fuel to the allegations that the database left with the last ticket provider!
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32 minutes ago, Maboza said:

It’s another Kibble appointment. You/we don’t need to know.  😉

 

25 minutes ago, alanb said:

No idea 

These Kibble types are very flexible and interchangeable it seems

Not really wanting to go the blame kibble route, but surely we should be getting told things like this? 
 

done a quick google search and you are both right… very weird

 

1B795654-D342-4D85-9BC4-A0DB9E57A9F9.png

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3 minutes ago, mattman said:

 

Not really wanting to go the blame kibble route, but surely we should be getting told things like this? 
 

done a quick google search and you are both right… very weird

 

1B795654-D342-4D85-9BC4-A0DB9E57A9F9.png

In fairness, I’m not sure if General Manager is a level of management that we (as fans) generally need to know about. 
 

I expect to know about a change of CEO and we get to see the public nature of that role from Brian Caldwell and now Tony Fitz. I’m not sure the same applies to General Manager but others will know better than me. I suppose the most recent reference point is us being highlighted to the appointment of Ali Defoy to the Sales & Brand Mgt (?) position, which merited announcement but maybe that’s more public facing. 
 

The blending of Kibble into SMFC is the interesting bit for me. 

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