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On 18/07/2017 at 11:52 AM, Soctty said:

We know that when they weren't a non-league team their gates were higher than ours. We also know they've been relegated to the National League, and their gates are likely to suffer, added to the fact that their prices are now slightly lower than ours all in all.

You talk as if having 4,500 as opposed to 3,400 average gate consitutes a commercial bonanza for them - it doesn't. Both are very low crowds. They will have paid players more than us last year, as they were still in the Football League, benefiting from the TV deals and sponsorship that brings with it - they're non-league now, and their external income will plummet as their gate receipts also fall. It's basic stuff that happens when you fall through the trapdoor.

It's all academic anyway since Harry Davis is likely to be signing for Saints regardless... :ph34r:

Leyton Orient have announced that they have sold 3500 season tickets, a 16 year high. More than our entire average attendance last year - so much for their gates suffering. Pretty sure they will still be able to pay more than us, as they will have been last year.

As for it not being a commercial bonanza: it was 33% more than we got. That is significant whatever the underlying figures. It makes no difference if the underlying figures are 1m or 100m: the fact is that their revenue was a third greater than ours.

At least you were right about Davis...

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On Ralston, aren't we always told that it was the facilities that helped to swing matters when we've signed decent players? That we have the training and development facilities of a top-six club? And it seems, to me, that in the batch of fantastic young players we've seen coming through over the past few years, that the investment has been justified.

But the comparison to the Fakes is an interesting one. Perhaps we are playing the wrong game here - maybe we just let other teams develop players and save our money so we can assemble short-term squads and spend all our cash on wages and agents' fees. 

I don't agree with that, personally, but I would like us to find a way to exist comfortably in the top flight and also bring young talent through. Surely the two can co-exist at a club.

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13 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said:

On Ralston, aren't we always told that it was the facilities that helped to swing matters when we've signed decent players? That we have the training and development facilities of a top-six club? And it seems, to me, that in the batch of fantastic young players we've seen coming through over the past few years, that the investment has been justified.

But the comparison to the Fakes is an interesting one. Perhaps we are playing the wrong game here - maybe we just let other teams develop players and save our money so we can assemble short-term squads and spend all our cash on wages and agents' fees. 

I don't agree with that, personally, but I would like us to find a way to exist comfortably in the top flight and also bring young talent through. Surely the two can co-exist at a club.

It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs.

Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything.

Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH.

 

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Our dedicated training complex has often been cited as a contributory factor when players opt to sign with the club.

I'd be surprised if it doesn't have some influence (wouldn't want to overstate it, right enough - filthy lucre ruling supreme, no doubt).

I spoke to Gus during the earth breaking ceremony for the new ground, and he said that the development of Ralston was hugely significant. He was clearly sick of trying to find parks that weren't entirely carpeted with broken glass and dug shite (white or otherwise).

 

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17 minutes ago, Magic Monkey said:

On Ralston, aren't we always told that it was the facilities that helped to swing matters when we've signed decent players? That we have the training and development facilities of a top-six club? And it seems, to me, that in the batch of fantastic young players we've seen coming through over the past few years, that the investment has been justified.

But the comparison to the Fakes is an interesting one. Perhaps we are playing the wrong game here - maybe we just let other teams develop players and save our money so we can assemble short-term squads and spend all our cash on wages and agents' fees. 

I don't agree with that, personally, but I would like us to find a way to exist comfortably in the top flight and also bring young talent through. Surely the two can co-exist at a club.

Apologies, hadn't read your post before composing my last one.

I concur (evidently).

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44 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs.

Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything.

Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH.

 

I agree with that, but it's hard to measure these things precisely without getting into the murky world of 'how much have we brought in in transfer fees', and then it all starts to sound a bit Dickson-esque. I'd prefer to put it down to a feeling, as vague as that may be.

I do know that, for years (let's say back to our initial relegation in the 90s), we weren't producing any (or very many) kids of note, and we were also shite. Now we're shite*, but we've got a bit of a talent train coming through. I'd still rather the team was great, but it makes me feel very proud that we're producing kids that bigger teams want.

 

* Surely the cost of Ralston can't have caused that, can it? On the list of 'what's gone wrong at SMFC since 2014', I'd guess that spending money on our training facilities wouldn't be that close to the top of the list.

 

Edit to add: this article from a few years ago popped into my head. Basically talking about how the tide has turned in Manchester in terms of youth development of the opening of Man City's youth academy. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/24/manchester-city-united-youth-policy

I'm obviously not comparing us to Man City - they have the resources to fight on both fronts in terms of massive first team wages and world-class youth development, but it shows importantly the biggest teams are treating this stuff. I'd be horrified if we moved away from having facilities of the standard that we currently have.

Edited by Magic Monkey

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If the club already owns the land across from the away stand, would it not make sense to punt the valuable land in Ralston, use some of the cash to build a state of the art synthetic pitch and a gym at St Mirren Park and bank the rest? Could even be another revenue stream for the club. 

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1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs.

Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything.

Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH.

 

Are you kidding? :huh:

John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Stevie Mallan, Jack Baird, Mark McAusland, Sean Kelly, Jason Naismith, Kyle Magennis, Lewis Morgan, Kyle McAllister to name a few...

Look how many players we've brought through into our first team. Last year they saved us from slipping into League 1

5 star elite status too. Not to be sniffed at

Edited by Doakes

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8 minutes ago, Saint Garf said:

If the club already owns the land across from the away stand, would it not make sense to punt the valuable land in Ralston, use some of the cash to build a state of the art synthetic pitch and a gym at St Mirren Park and bank the rest? Could even be another revenue stream for the club. 

The Ralston land isn't ours to punt. We have a long lease on it, and there might be a cost if we look to relinquish that.

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1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

It would be interesting to KNOW what Ralston costs.

Generic terms from people don't really tell us anything.

Difficult to measure if it's worth the investment TBH.

 

A fair point.

 

I guess the comparisons that have been made in recent years are with what we had before Ralston (searching for public parks, removing dog shit etc) and having a dedicated facility at all. That is a no brainer, surely?

 

The more difficult decision is to compare Ralston with a, perhaps, more modest arrangement such as an all weather pitch at Greenhill. That wasn't an option when we first got Ralston, but is perhaps more of an option now? It might be desirable and financially sensible to develop a training complex within/alongside the ground at Greenhill now that all weather pitch technology has improved and the space to grow at Greenhill is (may be) available.

 

Personally, I think it is essential that we have a dedicated training facility/resource which Ralston currently provides, but I have no idea how a cost/benefit analysis would work out if the alternative was a new facility centered at Greenhill.

 

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Leyton Orient have announced that they have sold 3500 season tickets, a 16 year high. More than our entire average attendance last year - so much for their gates suffering. Pretty sure they will still be able to pay more than us, as they will have been last year.
As for it not being a commercial bonanza: it was 33% more than we got. That is significant whatever the underlying figures. It makes no difference if the underlying figures are 1m or 100m: the fact is that their revenue was a third greater than ours.
At least you were right about Davis...




Don't shatter peoples illusions. Billy is on his way!




I loved watching Zeefuik playing alongside Osman Sow. Big hefty battering ram who just barrelled through defenders and loved to get a shot away. 
Would be a dream signing to be honest. 


Bit late back to the party...and it is, as I said, all academic as we were signing Harry anyway.

On your post, "pretty sure" means little in the great scheme of things.

The underlying attendance figure is affected greatly by the corresponding TV revenue and prize money, of which ours is far greater.

All of this is largely conjecture on both sides, all because we were told Davis would definitely go to Orient as they would pay more...

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19 minutes ago, Doakes said:

Are you kidding? :huh:

John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Stevie Mallan, Jack Baird, Mark McAusland, Sean Kelly, Jason Naismith, Kyle Magennis, Lewis Morgan, Kyle McAllister to name a few...

Look how many players we've brought through into our first team. Last year they saved us from slipping into League 1

5 star elite status too. Not to be sniffed at

Eh, and how much does it cost?

I never said it WASN'T value, just trying to establish the running cost.

You've made an massive assumption these players would not have been with us if we hadn't had Ralston. :blink:

Edited by faraway saint

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9 hours ago, Chris said:

Leyton Orient have announced that they have sold 3500 season tickets, a 16 year high. More than our entire average attendance last year - so much for their gates suffering. Pretty sure they will still be able to pay more than us, as they will have been last year.

As for it not being a commercial bonanza: it was 33% more than we got. That is significant whatever the underlying figures. It makes no difference if the underlying figures are 1m or 100m: the fact is that their revenue was a third greater than ours.

At least you were right about Davis...

Fair points but the revenue in tickets book sales has to be balanced by any debt, higher wages and other running costs.

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29 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Would that be the two we sold for "peanuts" and caused weeks of angst on the forum? :lol:

PS Back in your box. :rolleyes:

We didn't sell mcginn he ran away cause we got relegated and someone kinda stuck a spear in him 

Edited by ReturnOf isma is god

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