New Contract For Lennon - Got To Be 2 Years

[Bart Simpson]

I've maintained throughout the often unpopular and previously increasingly lonely opinion that Danny should stay. The last few weeks have vindicated this and more importantly his position.

When all is said and done, we are living within our means, have a top flight team to support, new stadium/training facilities etc...he has taken us to only our 4th major domestic cup title (in 136 years), not far away from our top league finish in greater than 20 years and all on an ever dwindling budget with youth players not only breaking into, but establishing themselves in the first team.

What more do we want? A gentleman who takes every opportunity to talk our club and us up?

Time for a reality check. Danny may have sailed too close to the wind for some, but that's how things go with a small budget with often mediocre results. Compare the current position of our club to the last 25 years...

My opinion aside, a decision is needed soon. Back him strongly or thank him wholeheartedly. Allow him time to keep the players he wants to or the new manager wants to keep and give either time to bring in those they want. I sincerely hope for stability, continued progress (albeit slow in the league) and honest integrity from DL with all of us pulling in the same direction, but if not I think we will look back on the last few years with only happy memories and that can't be a bad thing...

[BuddieinEK]

Hibs made a change and went for someone with a good track record.

How is that panning out so far?

Killie went the other way and appointed a young manager with a very impressive cv.

How is that panning out so far?

Mor10 went the other way and decided on experience.

How is that panning out so far?

Look down South... Malky MacKay had taken Cardiff as far as he could and it was time for a change to take them to the next level.

How is that panning out so far?

Aberdeen have tried how many managers before finally getting lucky. But Brown, Calderwood etc have all been respected in their careers and were expected to do well.

Beware what you wish for methinks.

[kevo_smfc]

Hibs made a change and went for someone with a good track record.

How is that panning out so far?

Killie went the other way and appointed a young manager with a very impressive cv.

How is that panning out so far?

Mor10 went the other way and decided on experience.

How is that panning out so far?

Look down South... Malky MacKay had taken Cardiff as far as he could and it was time for a change to take them to the next level.

How is that panning out so far?

Aberdeen have tried how many managers before finally getting lucky. But Brown, Calderwood etc have all been respected in their careers and were expected to do well.

Beware what you wish for methinks.

Exactly!

Danny got it wrong in the summer transfer window, though he was big enough to admit it, offload the duds and replace with some decent players.

For me, Kilmarnock and Hibs are a great example as you mentioned of what can happen if you think an experienced coach or rising young coach is an overnight solution to success.

We have good harmony and a great bunch of lads at the club. There seems to be a belief in the camp and we seem to have a formula that is working at this moment in time.

This coming season is going to be very different to the last few in terms of our nearest rivals having the upperhand with league safety well in advance. None of the bottom 5 have been guaranteed safety up until this week, a few days before the season ends, so no club has been able to prepare for what league they would be in next season.

I personally think Danny is worth another 2 years with possibly 1 year and the option of a second as the terms.

[Bud the Baker]

Hibs made a change and went for someone with a good track record.

How is that panning out so far?

Killie went the other way and appointed a young manager with a very impressive cv.

How is that panning out so far?

Mor10 went the other way and decided on experience.

How is that panning out so far?

Look down South... Malky MacKay had taken Cardiff as far as he could and it was time for a change to take them to the next level.

How is that panning out so far?

Aberdeen have tried how many managers before finally getting lucky. But Brown, Calderwood etc have all been respected in their careers and were expected to do well.

Beware what you wish for methinks.

Lotsa folk said that towards the end of MacPherson's tenure and what did we get a manager who won us our first trophy in 26 years and our highest league finish in the same period.

I had an open mind on Lennon up until the Fakes game in March, sure things have turned around since then but I reckon that's more in spite of than due to Lennon.

Best to part ways at the end of the season IMO with good feelings all around, if he stays then c'est la vie but whatever happens I'd like to see it done fast - by the beginning of next week at the latest.

[BuddieinEK]

Lotsa folk said that towards the end of MacPherson's tenure and what did we get a manager who won us our first trophy in 26 years and our highest league finish in the same period.

I had an open mind on Lennon up until the Fakes game in March, sure things have turned around since then but I reckon that's more in spite of than due to Lennon.

Best to part ways at the end of the season IMO with good feelings all around, if he stays then c'est la vie but whatever happens I'd like to see it done fast - by the beginning of next week at the latest.

I understand totally where you are coming from.

I supported Gus till the end when it became obvious that change was essential.

I dispaired preseason and thought we were very under prepared. I dispaired further when I heard Danny say we were hoping to peak a few weeks into the season. A good start was essential imo.

I was aghast at the bad transfer record. (Although Grainger and Harkins both seemed good at the time).

I have been continually frustrated at our tactical naivety.

I have been horrified at times with our lack of motivation.

I had conceded and decided it WAS time for change.

And yet I now find myself clinging to hope.

I don't expect a genius manager who is the best in the business... We'd have to replace him after a year.

Danny has come out and admitted that he has made mistakes.

He has shown a capacity to learn.

He has managed to maintain a reasonable standard despite the catalogue of negatives.

Maybe it is the optimist in me... but I now think there are enough signs of growth and learning to wait and see it that develops further with nurturing and encouragement.

I do agree that any decision should be made as soon as possible.

[delpierro]

Danny Lennon has had his opportunity, time for him to go.

The End.

[shull]

Danny Lennon has had his opportunity

And hasn't he done well ?

Indeed he has.

New contract for Dan & Tam please.

[Bud the Baker]

Just to throw a curveball into the thread it seems that Ian Murray (Dumbarton) has yet to sign a new contract so presumably we could appoint him with a minimum of fuss and compensation.

Not saying we should do so just that at least one alternative seems to be available.......................

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27149957

Dumbarton manager Ian Murray is hopeful of signing a new deal with the Scottish Championship club.

The 33-year-old's current contract runs out at the end of the season and the Sons still have a chance of reaching the promotion play-offs.

"We're hopefully getting something sorted out," Murray told BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound programme."We've both done well for each other. They've given me a chance to manage a team in a really good division."

And he added: "I've hopefully repaid them with keeping them in the league, probably looking at a top-half finish and obviously a Scottish Cup quarter-final."

Queen of the South currently occupy the final play-off berth going into the final two rounds of fixtures and hold a three-point advantage over Murray's side.

The former Hibernian player admits qualification would present some challenges to Dumbarton but is still eager to stay in the promotion hunt.

"I'm looking at it from a part-time point of view," explained Murray, who took on the manager's post in 2012.

"If we get in the play-offs we need to use an extra month's wages, we have to keep our part-time players ticking over. We have to find games from somewhere to keep everybody going.

"And then, if you get to the end of it, you've got to play a full-time Premiership team, who are going to be fitter than you. That's just a fact.

"But that's the way it is. For us to get in there would still be fantastic."

[ds10]

It would be good if the Consortium could make public the decision about the management teams future prior to the game on Saturday, as I'm sure many fans would appreciate the opportunity to say "goodbye" to DL, TC and the backroom staff if that is the outcome.

This definitely seems appropriate.

After all, like him or not, Danny has delivered a Cup and a great day out for the fans.......

The very least he would deserve surely, is an opportunity to say goodbye.

[saintargyll]

we have a fan base of 3000

30 posters in here are not going to determine whether Danny stays or not

[Bud the Baker]

we have a fan base of 3000

30 posters in here are not going to determine whether Danny stays or not

Agreed, this is a forum where people who probably couldn't survive in the wider community can talk bollocks in relative safety.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bud the Baker

[saintargyll]

Agreed, this is a forum where people who probably couldn't survive in the wider community can talk bollocks in relative safety.

you noticed too

[pod]

we have a fan base of 3000

30 posters in here are not going to determine whether Danny stays or not

Don't even think 3000 could determine. It will be up to the BOD.

[linwood buddie]

Why are people posting that DL only made mistakes in last summers transfers ,what about all the other transfer windows, mistakes have been made in every window , 4 or 5 results don't make things all good the teams around us are all mince ,the game against Partick was dire we were poor and got a soft penalty . Its not down to DL this sudden change in form its more to do with the fact 13 players are out of contract this season .

[Lex]

Hibs made a change and went for someone with a good track record.

How is that panning out so far?

Killie went the other way and appointed a young manager with a very impressive cv.

How is that panning out so far?

Mor10 went the other way and decided on experience.

How is that panning out so far?

Look down South... Malky MacKay had taken Cardiff as far as he could and it was time for a change to take them to the next level.

How is that panning out so far?

Aberdeen have tried how many managers before finally getting lucky. But Brown, Calderwood etc have all been respected in their careers and were expected to do well.

Beware what you wish for methinks.

Not really following your point here. Is it that some managerial changes work and some don't? If it is that, fair enough. Why then, do you only cite changes that haven't worked, whilst ignoring the changes that have worked?

AJ's appointment by Killie from the lower leagues hasn't worked, McNamara's appointment by Dundee United from the lower league has worked.

Morton's change of manager during the season hasn't worked, Dundee's change of manager during the season has worked.

Cardiff's change of manager hasn't worked, meanwhile Palace and Sunderland's change of management have been huge successes.

Your point of some appointments working and some isn't is valid, your examples need to be more balanced though.

I think this list is more pertinent to this thread, it's a list of Danny's signings this season.

Summer - December

Cornell - Fail

Harkins - Fail

Bahoken - Fail

Kello - Success

Caprice - Fail

Grainger - Fail

Dilo -Success

Dillon - Fail

January till now

Djemba-Djemba - Huge fanfare, huge - Fail.

Campbell - Danny chased him for about a year, now he's got him he doesn't even use him from the bench anymore. A couple of flashes but nothing consistent - Fail.

Magennis - Josh is a good impact sub, but whenever he's started he's been hopeless. The home game against St Johnstone and the game at Tannadice being the examples that spring to mind. Definitely not a success, would say fail is a bit harsh though - Don't know.

Wylde - Haven't seen enough from Gregg to convince me he has what it takes to be a regular first team player. Again, he has looked best coming off the bench and playing against tiring defences, but has struggled when starting. He's here next season though, so will be judged then - Juries still out.

There you go. I make that 2 successes and 8 failures from 12 signings, and both of the successes were goalkeepers!

These aren't the teething mistakes of a new manager, Danny is one of the most experienced bosses in the league. His summer of Beath debacle was excused with the lack of experience card, he can't play that same card 3 years later, it's clear he hasn't learned.

Can any Saints fan look at that and genuinely believe Danny is the right man to lead us into another vital summer window? Look at the amount of the clubs money he's wasted on duds there. It should not and cannot be allowed to happen again. It's too big a gamble to trust him with the clubs money for yet another season, he's thrown away enough of it.

[Lex]

It would be good if the Consortium could make public the decision about the management teams future prior to the game on Saturday, as I'm sure many fans would appreciate the opportunity to say "goodbye" to DL, TC and the backroom staff if that is the outcome.

I absolutely agree and said so earlier in the thread. Danny should go after the Hearts game, but he deserves a fond farewell and a standing ovation after the final whistle, and I'll be one of the people applauding.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Why are people posting that DL only made mistakes in last summers transfers ,what about all the other transfer windows, mistakes have been made in every window , 4 or 5 results don't make things all good the teams around us are all mince ,the game against Partick was dire we were poor and got a soft penalty . Its not down to DL this sudden change in form its more to do with the fact 13 players are out of contract this season .

There was no way it was a soft penalty at Firhilll were you wearing Thistle specs ? Substations in the run in have proved crucial just at the right time. I wanted a change of manager but now I'm not sure , would say if we finish in 7th place then Danny for me deserves a new contract.

[linwood buddie]

There was no way it was a soft penalty at Firhilll were you wearing Thistle specs ? Substations in the run in have proved crucial just at the right time. I wanted a change of manager but now I'm not sure , would say if we finish in 7th place then Danny for me deserves a new contract.

No I don't have Thistle specs and anyway why would I wear them they would jag me , and your entitled to your opinion same as I am mine , DL wont be our manager next season ,great substitutions in the run in , you will find its the same changes he makes in most of he games . Thistle specs come on .

[Wilbur]

Can any Saints fan look at that and genuinely believe Danny is the right man to lead us into another vital summer window? Look at the amount of the clubs money he's wasted on duds there. It should not and cannot be allowed to happen again. It's too big a gamble to trust him with the clubs money for yet another season, he's thrown away enough of it.

I think I may have hit on the perfect solution.

Based on the way St Mirren have recently started to play like Real Madrid we should keep DL on as team coach/manager and let Lex choose the players DL has under him.

Simples !

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

No I don't have Thistle specs and anyway why would I wear them they would jag me , and your entitled to your opinion same as I am mine , DL wont be our manager next season ,great substitutions in the run in , you will find its the same changes he makes in most of he games . Thistle specs come on .

So 7th spot our highest position in decades along with a national trophy is not good enough. What are you wanting ?

Talk of the Dumbarton manager what are we going to do bring in another trainee manager to learn the ropes in the top flight again ? Of course you are entitled to an opinion just as I am. Everyone in the support thought Granger and Harkins were good signings even on paper they did I certainly don't blame the manager for them two.

Bottom line is what do we want form Saints.

Personally I think Danny has learned a lot this season being under severe pressure for a good part of the season. He has found a formula that is working for that reason I would give him another chance rather than brining in a new trainee manager.

Just hope the board don't hinder our new season by not choosing who is going to lead us into next season by not making a decision this week. No matter what it will be interesting to see .

[djchapsticks]

We need someone to 'take us to the next level'.....that's a lot of what people are saying nowadays.

Let me ask, what is the next level for a club like us? Hasn't Danny Lennon, by securing our highest finish in two decades a couple of years ago, winning a national cup competition last season and then having us on the brink of bettering our league position of 2012, led us to this fabled 'next level?'.

Let's be honest, we're not a club who will ever be challenging for Europe year in year out. It's simply not going to happen. I'd wager that a consistent and comfortable 5th-8th place finish and a good cup run here and there is our absolute glass ceiling. Danny Lennon has delivered cup runs and/or comfort in three of his four seasons in charge.

This whole 'next level' nonsense was the same stuff the Falkirk fans peddled with relation to John Hughes. Charlton fans with Alan Curbishley and Bolton fans with Sam Allardyce. All small clubs with ideas above and beyond their station.

Me personally, I'm more than happy to keep Danny on and certainly happier than I would be if we brought in some long forgotten and now irrelevant dinosaur like Jeffries or Calderwood (remember some panic-stricken fans pishing their knickers, scrambling for Jimmy Calderwood to come in a save us only a few months ago? Embarrassing.) . He does need some guidance in player identification to say the least and his tactics and player choices have been soul destroying at points this season, but he's certainly a hell of a lot better than about 95% of what's out there.

Face reality. There is no real 'next-level' for us. We're sitting almost smack bang in the middle of our glass ceiling. The middle 4 places in the top league in Scotland. Exactly where we should be and exactly where we have been for the majority of our history.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Some good news here

St Mirren captain Jim Goodwin also admitted there is an air of uncertainty hanging over the Paisley squad, claiming they have been left in limbo with manager Danny Lennon undergoing talks of his own about his future.

At least talks have begun

[Sonny]

A wee bit of perspective required here. If Danny is a Fail then so is Alan Johnson, Alan Archibald, Terry Butcher, Derek Adams and Gary Locke who are all worse off than us some with far larger budgets than DL has ever had.

Any young manager requires time and has to learn quickly and it is often a real struggle to start with (ask Alan Johnson - Manager of the Year last season in the Championship). Surely it is better to have someone who has already started the learning process than to start all over again? Danny has good points and some bad points but hopefully he is learning from his experiences and will be a better manager for them. I am sure some of the Clubs below us would be happy to have Danny on board right now.

[Drew]

A wee bit of perspective required here. If Danny is a Fail then so is Alan Johnson, Alan Archibald, Terry Butcher, Derek Adams and Gary Locke who are all worse off than us some with far larger budgets than DL has ever had.

Any young manager requires time and has to learn quickly and it is often a real struggle to start with (ask Alan Johnson - Manager of the Year last season in the Championship). Surely it is better to have someone who has already started the learning process than to start all over again? Danny has good points and some bad points but hopefully he is learning from his experiences and will be a better manager for them. I am sure some of the Clubs below us would be happy to have Danny on board right now.

It is interesting to hear the views of the supporters clubs on Danny's position. Most I speak to think we would be daft to look elsewhere at the moment, given the associated risks inherent to his process. I have to say that this does worry me, not least the notion of any new owners bringing in their own man. FFS, let's face it, that could be anybody!

Are the supporters of those other clubs being more objective? Probably. Do they have the same grasp of what goes on at our club? Undoubtedly not, but it doesn't do any harm to hear them out, as many of them have been in a similar position (as have we, of course).

I was absolutely clear in my mind that Gus' time was up. Likewise Coughlin, Tony Fitz, Davy Hay (apologies for the language!), and others. I can't say I feel the same way regarding Danny. I'm pretty clear about his shortcomings, but I think there is enough there to build on, though a great deal depends on him having proper backing within the club.

[Lex]

A wee bit of perspective required here. If Danny is a Fail then so is Alan Johnson, Alan Archibald, Terry Butcher, Derek Adams and Gary Locke who are all worse off than us some with far larger budgets than DL has ever had.

.

Comparing apples and oranges there. 2 of those managers are managing in the top flight for the first time. 1 had a transfer embargo and a points deduction and is in his first full season, 1 took over almost half way into the season and 1 is in his second season at this level.

This is Danny's 4th season. He has been at our club for longer than 4 of those managers combined have been at theres. If this was his first season of course it would be harsh to regard him as a failure, it isn't though.

He has been given ample chance to take us forward and he hasn't done it. Here's an article from November 2011, when Rangers and Hearts were still in the league. Danny had just signed the extension which is now about to expire.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Danny's self stated ambition then was to make us... And I'm quoting him here ' A regular top 6 side '.

Since then Rangers have died and Hearts have went into admin, in the process making 2 additional top 6 places available for teams like us. It is actually easier to get in the top now than it was when Danny's ambition was to make us top 6 regulars!

Not only has he failed in his self states ambition of making us 'top 6 regulars'. We haven't even been in contention for it once, never mind actually getting there. We could be a St Johnstone or a Motherwell or an ICT in league terms. These teams are no bigger than us, infact two of them are smaller than us. They're 'top 6 regulars' we aren't. Why?

I know people will now say yeah yeah but we won a cup. We certainly did, and what a win it was, the 4th greatest day in our clubs history. What a team we had last year, and we seen how good they could be in the cup.

We had Isma, who moved on to play for a team who's recently played in the last 16 of the UCL. We had Dummett, who is now a first choice player for a team in the top half of the EPL. Thompson and Teale were both Scottish internationalists, they both said they felt they were playing some of the best stuff of their career last year. Add all these players to our fine young midfield and it's no surprise we won the cup, we had the potential to be a fantastic team, and we showed that potential in the cup. Our squad last year was far better than it is this year IMO.

All the more surprising therefore, that we finished 11th last term. Apart from those 5 games last season our campaign was an absolute disgrace. Cup win aside, that team underachieved on an industrial scale. Nothing's changed this year, Jim Goodwin admits we've underachieved yet again. Only this time we don't have a cup run to take away the pain.

Therefore, if consistent self confessed underachievement, being in a relegation scrap most of the time and in the bottom 6 all of the time is what you want from St Mirren, Danny is your man. He's done it for 4 years, he'll do it for another 4 if we let him. This is what he does. If you'd like to see us move on and maybe even challenge for the top half one year (it's not an unrealistic ambition, promise), then we need a new manager.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Lex