Stuart Dickson Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 My recollection of the bonus saga from that era is that the players asked for and got an increase in bonuses providing they were in the Top 3 - tough luck. The sacking of Hendrie was one of those situations no-one came out of smelling of roses - he initially appeared to resign and then seemed to change his mind for whatever reason. The Board who were looking to minimize compensation eventually paid him in full with the proceeds from an away cup tie against Celtic. ********** I don't think the Board had any option but to promote Coughlin when Hendrie left they probably couldn't have afforded to pay off both, but was anyone surprised when MacPherson took over from Coughlin? ********** I see Tommy Craig as an interim figure who if things go right will see out his contract and retire from the game at 65 and how many can say that - so no need for pity there. Deal with the issue! I'm not saying that Bone shouldn't have dealt with it better but it's a football club and the important point being made is that people who undermine their managers and who show a lack of loyalty really shouldn't be rewarded with a promotion. You wouldn't do that in any other working environment so why do it at a football club. As for the bonus saga - that was the version of events Gilmour put out. It's not the same version of events that comes from players in the squad at that time. When the season started a win bonus had been agreed. The board then initiated a move to renegotiate that bonus and according to a number of the players from then that I do know pressure was put on younger members of the squad to vote in a particular way. Then towards the end of the season St Mirren's board took the decision to let the first choice goalkeeper go out on loan to St Johnstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 What I find really amusing about all this is that all the while the Lennon fans on this forum were supporting Lennon and abusing anyone who dared speak against him - the current manager and senior players were plotting against him to get him removed. So, will all the Lennon fans - faraway saint especially - now come out and apologise to everyone they abused? What are they going to do going forward now that they know that the current manager stabbed the man they so dearly loved in the back? All those Lennon fans are now completely humiliated and totally discredited. They are to be laughed at for ever more. As always, I have been proved correct. Lennon was clueless. The current manager, the players and the BoD could all see it. And they stabbed him in the back and got shot of him. We are now left with a deeply divided forum where the Lennon fans who abused fellow supporters have been shown up to be a shower of cunts. I genuinely feel sorry for you Bud. I hope you find peace.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Anyone heard who the 4 men who appeared with gilmour at the stadium yesterday were? His minders? I've seen Danny's mammy in the Cup Winning DVD, and I wouldn't mess with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I'm not saying that Bone shouldn't have dealt with it better but it's a football club and the important point being made is that people who undermine their managers and who show a lack of loyalty really shouldn't be rewarded with a promotion. You wouldn't do that in any other working environment so why do it at a football club. Two different issues - the scuffle between Bone & McGarvey after the Tromso game and what might have happened backstage as the season progressed. Admirable sentiments about the perils of rewarding treachery although I'm not so sure if it's restricted to football and anyway how many members of the current Board were there in 1988? As for the bonus saga - that was the version of events Gilmour put out. It's not the same version of events that comes from players in the squad at that time. When the season started a win bonus had been agreed. The board then initiated a move to renegotiate that bonus and according to a number of the players from then that I do know pressure was put on younger members of the squad to vote in a particular way. Then towards the end of the season St Mirren's board took the decision to let the first choice goalkeeper go out on loan to St Johnstone So there's different versions out there, that's news to me. I guess neither of us can say for sure what the true story is - although that didn't stop you presenting one version as verbatim. We do know that the players must've agreed to a change in their contracts. As for sending Roy out on loan, IIRC this all happened once we were out of the Cup and the running for promotion - Yardley was sent out on loan too and Alex Burns was transferred to Thistle all at about the same time as the club struggled to break even that season. By that stage I doubt 3rd place was an issue as IIRC we finished the season 8th although if it was perhaps SG is to be commended for his Machiavellianism - a prince has to do what a prince has to do! Edited May 14, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! Edited May 14, 2014 by The Original 59er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! They do a wee bit. A lot of those managers had seasons in the 1st Division, where it's a bit easier to pick up points than in the Premiership. Danny did it all in the top league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sorry forgot about Alex Smith.............................. Pts available: 198 Pts won: 85 Percentage 42.9% P.S. - He also won a cup, and he also was let go - it isn't a guarantee for anyone if you just win a cup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northendsaint Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Anyone heard who the 4 men who appeared with gilmour at the stadium yesterday were? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 They do a wee bit. A lot of those managers had seasons in the 1st Division, where it's a bit easier to pick up points than in the Premiership. Danny did it all in the top league. Spot on. Hendrie, Fitzpatrick, McPherson and Coughlin all have first division seasons in there. Lennon above Fitzpatrick, Hendrie and McPherson on percentage if we take only top league games into account. And none of those won a major national trophy. What's clear is that we haven't had a manager with a higher top league win percentage since Alex Miller, who left in 1986. It's all irrelevant now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPar72 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! Those stats mean very little. Adding a promotion season from the first division will clearly skew the stats in those managers favour. Compare top division seasons only then you have an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Now hold on Oaksoft. I suspect Isabella is still to start school, so I think you are being unfair. In which case you have to applaud his keyboard skills. At pre-school I was still at the "eating chalk" stage. To be honest I'm not sure I ever really grew out of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I have heard from a few people today, that the players are raging that TC got the job. They wanted someone completely new in If that's true (which it isn't) most of them will get the chance to have a new manager very soon because only 8 of them are under contract right now according to TC. Edited May 14, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 We could easily be heading fir the top six for the first time on our history. Haven't had time to read through the whole of thisthread but have you clarified this statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! Several of those managers spent at least one season in the First Div....DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Anyone heard who the 4 men who appeared with gilmour at the stadium yesterday were? Some say the four horsemen of the apocalypse, others disagree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! Seems you've went to a lot of trouble to prove your stats, in fact, do lie, well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Its hardly stabbing the guy in the back. Lennon was out of contract and the board decided he was out of a job. All four involved were out of contract. The three took the job out of self-preservation. Like any normal person would do. Put it in to context. You get a job because your friend gets you in to his place of employment. After a few years your friend is shown the door and the bosses ask if you would like some more money and more security, but the down side is you have to take your friends former role. Do you tell the bosses thanks but no thanks, I am happy to go home to my wife and children and advise them that I am officially unemployed. OR Do you take the job and see it as an opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 The thread title is very strong and, most agree, not the case. Disappointing treatment, IMO, is closer to the truth. There's enough speculation and worse going on here, the manager has gone, some are glad, some not so. This thread is starting to go in the normal direction, never ending circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Football is fickle business. Put it in to context. What would you rather have. Lennon as manager, but loose Teale and Goodwin Craig as Manager with Teale and Goodwin on the hook for another 2 years. Danny Lennon lost his job due to his signing record more so his signings this year. The transfer window is a short opportunity to allow teams to strengthen. Last year we signed an abundance of players, none of which saw out the season. Therefore we failed to strengthen the squad and cost the club money. This allowed other teams to gain an advantage over us. It could be argued that Craigs contacts have assisted in keeping Lennon in a job longer than he would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Haven't had time to read through the whole of thisthread but have you clarified this statement? I was obviously referring to our short history within the SPL/Premiership split shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sorry forgot about Alex Smith.............................. Pts available: 198 Pts won: 85 Percentage 42.9% P.S. - He also won a cup, and he also was let go - it isn't a guarantee for anyone if you just win a cup! You missed out Davie Hay too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 You missed out Davie Hay too. Mods... Someone just used the 'H' word, and I don't mean a Swedish team. Five year mandatory ban. Please act! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Mods... Someone just used the 'H' word, and I don't mean a Swedish team. Five year mandatory ban. Please act! Which Swedish team? The only one I can think of is Hammarby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 As Mason Boyne might have pointed out, 'Hay' (spit) is a 3 letter word. Like 'fud'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie! A few things to also bear in mind... when Clunie was St Mirren manager the club were able to break the Scottish transfer record and outbid Celtic to sign Frank MacDougall and we had a decent number of Scotland U21 regulars and Scotland squad players (Billy Thomson, Iain Munro, Frank McAvennie, Steve Clark etc). i am not sure how fair it is to compare managers who are 30 or 40 years apart and who played in leagues of different sizes (number of teams). The players we had at our disposal in the 80's meant managers could be judged failures by the board even if they finished 3rd! Gus McPherson, Tony Fitzpatrick, Tom Hendrie, Alex Ferguson, Jimmy Bone all had seasons in the first (and sometimes second) divisions where it is little wonder they can rack up a decent points total even if they finish mid-table in the first division and almost half or a whole league behind where DL had us finishing. If you were to rank the managers by their highest league position attained DL becomes the equal of Alex Ferguson! PS in addition to missing out Davie Hay, where does Cup winning manager Alex Smith come in your ranking system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.