Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 One rumour doing the rounds was that Thommo was interviewed by the BoD about taking over from DL before they spoke to Tommy Craig and offered it to him instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Hibs have been in terminal decline for years. Big Yogi seems to be doing not too terribly at ICT after being trashed at Easter Road. Mixu did OK at Killie after being trashed at Hibs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Urquhart Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Got to go asap, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Got to go asap, IMO. On you go Gordon, dinnae let us haud you back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota7 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 There is no way we could afford Coyle. Let's get real if Tommy goes the gig is Teale's another cheap option. We will only get a decent manager once the board go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 There is no way we could afford Coyle. Let's get real if Tommy goes the gig is Teale's another cheap option. We will only get a decent manager once the board go. What difference will that make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 One rumour doing the rounds was that Thommo was interviewed by the BoD about taking over from DL before they spoke to Tommy Craig and offered it to him instead. True, Thommo didn't want it. Craig knew with two games to go he'd be the new manager. If we comfortably win on Friday I think that will be enough with you playing us in the cup, to see Craig out. It should be, anyway. A bloody ridiculous appointment in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Michael Stewart having a right go at TC today. Outdated training and approach to dealing with players. Also says he has history of jumping into jobs when the manager is fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Michael Stewart having a right go at TC today. Outdated training and approach to dealing with players. Also says he has history of jumping into jobs when the manager is fired. Was talking about MS at the weekend , pure prick of a footballer but the best Scottish pundit on TV. Certainly hitting the nail on the head re TC ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Having at last scored, at least we have that monkey off out back! Now let’s get the Neanderthal out of the dugout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 You're missing the point again. Yes these managers were sacked before Christmas, but none of them were in their first season, so it's a completely meaningless comparison. it would be a completely meaningless comparison if Craig was brand new to the club. the fact that he was assistant for 3 years to a manager that has just been sacked makes it a valid comparison and, by the way, coughlin was sacked before Xmas in what would have been his first full season in charge the current bod have a record of getting rid of managers before Xmas and id be amazed if Craig is still here in october Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM1 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The idea that the board would give him until at least January regardless of results (going on our schedule, it wouldn't be that surprising if TC was still without a league win by this time next month) is mental, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I would opine that a footie manager's job has to be potentially the worst type of contractual appointment that anyone could ever seek! Take David Moyes as an example. For several years he was touted as probably the most astute and grounded manager in the Premier League and then slipped quietly into the hot seat in Manchester by the former boss and BoD's as being the natural successor. Of course no-one looked hard at the quality of player that he had been left, or did they release the purse strings (to the tune of £104m) to allow him the luxury of a new team, no, his predecessor has left him a 'winning team' and formula that he of course had to follow. I mention the above simply to say, that even the perceived best in the field can be made to look foolish. So in the fantasy world that some of our posters live in, if David Moyes was offered the job at St Mirren Park, would he be welcomed with open arms as being a "fantastic appointment", or deemed to be such a failure, (that no matter whether he stopped chips on a Friday night or not!), he would be damned from the outset. I suspect many would plump for the latter. So how does this relate to our present incumbent. Well we lost a number of players, some of which needed to go and others perhaps needed a fresh challenge. So TC has had to build a new team and approach with a VERY limited budget. Personally I'd like to see him turn it round and start getting both the breaks and also the players putting in 100% and playing to their true potential week on week. I know many will say that a footie manager is extremely well remunerated for his efforts and that it is a results business. However his position very much relies on others carrying out his instructions and if they don't perform as team players then the results eventually reflect on the management as being the culprits. I vote for giving him time to see if the whole team can turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The idea that the board would give him until at least January regardless of results (going on our schedule, it wouldn't be that surprising if TC was still without a league win by this time next month) is mental, IMO. I'm off the opposite view JM1, I think it is a stick on that the Board will give him until at least January, and more than likely the entire season. I apologise in advance for dredging up a previous post of my own from May (see below), I do so only to provide some support for what I've said above / am about to say. Focusing specifically on the appointment of TC, the predicated, and as it turns out, actual shitestorm, lies fairly and squarely at the Boards door. We all knew replacing DL with his assistant and promoting two players to player/coach roles was an elaborate cost cutting exercise with minimum ambition and significant risk. I'm as unhappy as everyone else about the start to the season. I've seen us play worse over the course of 5 league games, however 5 defeats is unacceptable, end of. Bottom line though, TC has a two year contract, to cancel it would require a substantial compensation package. The Board would additionally have to dig deeper to then appoint a suitable replacement. He's not getting sacked any time soon. More chance of him resigning imho, and that's something I would not rule out happening in the coming two months. Thread = Sportsound Podcast Tonight Posted 14 May 2014 - 15:09 Clearly like many on here I'm surprised by the decision (to appoint Tommy Craig), and I listened with interest to SG's interview last night. I'm sad to say that none of it addressed the main concerns that I had. I say 'sad' as I'm certainly inclined to be supportive of the Board, and will be again, but if this whole affair has convinced me of anything its that the selling consortium need out, for everyone's sake, most of all their own. I've looked at this every which way, and I can't reach any other conclusion than it being an elaborate cost cutting exercise, regardless of how often I hear the denial. Whether that's right or wrong, fair or unfair, that's where I am. I was discouraged by what I interpreted as lack of ambition (“We’d like to aim for top 6, but that’s a big ask for a club like St Mirren”) - seems clear then, no stretching targets for the new regime. "Same again" would appear to be the order of the day. Worth saying, I know there are many on this forum who are good with that, so I accept that my own aspirations and ambitions are not shared by all. However the single biggest disappointment for me was.... Richard Gordon asked "Didn't it cross your mind that perhaps it would be better to have a fresh start?" SG replied "We looked at all the possibilities." That, by SG's own previous admission, is exactly what we did not do. The job became available around 3pm on Monday, and was filled 24 hours later. We did not advertise the vacancy, we did not interview any candidates. Given that, I'm struggling to understand how an experienced business person in any walk of life can have even the remotest of assurances that they appointed the right person, let alone expect the rest of us to buy it. Season ticket is purchased, I'll get right behind Tommy Craig, I'll also get right behind Stewart and the Board as I am very respectful of all the good they have done. The events of the last 7 days just don't sit right though. We move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomsbury Bud Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Its an alarming record, as a comparison, Davie Hay made a better start than this when he was Saints manager. That said, my opinion is that 5 league fixtures is not a reasonable length of time to make judgment. I'll concede I haven't worked out how long a period as manager is reasonable, and the question goes away if we pick up points. I do know that reasonable should be before January which is fair to any new manager to allow anticipation for a new transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergie's no1 fan Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Playing John McGinn on the right hand side of midfield in the first half was a disgrace, then on the radio said he played well there! TC hasn't learned from Danny's mistakes. Playing too many players out of position, we don't have any sort of system. Wasting a talented midfield, a weak defence and toothless up front. It has relegation written all over it. It's about fine margins, I certainly don't think Killie & Dundee played much better than us but they ground out the win. We need a centre back and a striker but have no £££ available. We have had bad luck with Thommo & Wyldes injuries. Wylde looked electric pre-season. If we had them playing and in form we'd have a few points on the board. Sadly its a results business though not about hard luck stories.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Michael Stewart having a right go at TC today. Outdated training and approach to dealing with players. Also says he has history of jumping into jobs when the manager is fired. Michael Stewart is absolutely spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I would opine that a footie manager's job has to be potentially the worst type of contractual appointment that anyone could ever seek! Take David Moyes as an example. For several years he was touted as probably the most astute and grounded manager in the Premier League and then slipped quietly into the hot seat in Manchester by the former boss and BoD's as being the natural successor. Of course no-one looked hard at the quality of player that he had been left, or did they release the purse strings (to the tune of £104m) to allow him the luxury of a new team, no, his predecessor has left him a 'winning team' and formula that he of course had to follow. I mention the above simply to say, that even the perceived best in the field can be made to look foolish. So in the fantasy world that some of our posters live in, if David Moyes was offered the job at St Mirren Park, would he be welcomed with open arms as being a "fantastic appointment", or deemed to be such a failure, (that no matter whether he stopped chips on a Friday night or not!), he would be damned from the outset. I suspect many would plump for the latter. So how does this relate to our present incumbent. Well we lost a number of players, some of which needed to go and others perhaps needed a fresh challenge. So TC has had to build a new team and approach with a VERY limited budget. Personally I'd like to see him turn it round and start getting both the breaks and also the players putting in 100% and playing to their true potential week on week. I know many will say that a footie manager is extremely well remunerated for his efforts and that it is a results business. However his position very much relies on others carrying out his instructions and if they don't perform as team players then the results eventually reflect on the management as being the culprits. I vote for giving him time to see if the whole team can turn it around. Your basing your assumptions that the players he brought in are good enough to play at our level. I suspect on evidence so far that only Plummer, Tess and Osborne fit that brief so middle to front we have big problems with Thommo missing. He also is failing to address the CB issue 1st by not signing one and now he is contradicting his own decision that we have sufficient cover in that position by not trying one of his alternatives. He must be feeling the pressure yet he seems to do very little to try to change the way we are performing on the park. I would drop Drury, drop Marwood and try going a lot more direct with Ball and Caldwell up front. Cut out trying to play through 2 out of form midfielders and get the ball forward quicker then try to get McLean and McGinn more advanced to pick up 2nd balls in a more dangerous area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I would opine that a footie manager's job has to be potentially the worst type of contractual appointment that anyone could ever seek! Take David Moyes as an example. For several years he was touted as probably the most astute and grounded manager in the Premier League and then slipped quietly into the hot seat in Manchester by the former boss and BoD's as being the natural successor. Of course no-one looked hard at the quality of player that he had been left, or did they release the purse strings (to the tune of £104m) to allow him the luxury of a new team, no, his predecessor has left him a 'winning team' and formula that he of course had to follow. I mention the above simply to say, that even the perceived best in the field can be made to look foolish. So how does this relate to our present incumbent. Well we lost a number of players, some of which needed to go and others perhaps needed a fresh challenge. So TC has had to build a new team and approach with a VERY limited budget. don't agree with this analysis with regards to the 'limited budget', i don't see our budget being any more limited than any other season when compared with our rivals indeed, with rangers, hearts & hibs missing and the likes of Hamilton, ict & ross county in the top flight you could argue, relatively speaking, that tc has a bigger budget available than any saints manager in more than 20 years. as for a number of players leaving, this also affects every club in the post bosman era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 i would drop Drury, drop Marwood and try going a lot more direct with Ball and Caldwell up front. Cut out trying to play through 2 out of form midfielders and get the ball forward quicker then try to get McLean and McGinn more advanced to pick up 2nd balls in a more dangerous area. exactly the tactics you have slated me for suggesting in the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Its an alarming record, as a comparison, Davie Hay made a better start than this when he was Saints manager. That said, my opinion is that 5 league fixtures is not a reasonable length of time to make judgment. I'll concede I haven't worked out how long a period as manager is reasonable, and the question goes away if we pick up points. I do know that reasonable should be before January which is fair to any new manager to allow anticipation for a new transfer window. Under normal circumstances I would agree, but these aren't normal circumstances for me. We appoint the guy who has been Assistant Manager for the past 3 years, reportedly after declaring the need for a change of direction. He is known mainly as a coach, and his previous brief spells as a manager have not worked out well at all, with some disastrous win/loss stats. We then start the season with 5 straight losses (when long runs of winless games were a feature of the previous regime's last couple of seasons). Anger, complaints, keyboard warriors and knickerwetting can all be healthy signs of an engaged and motivated crowd. Apathy amongst a support should be a massive concern to any club, and there are early signs of it at St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Anger, complaints, keyboard warriors and knickerwetting can all be healthy signs of an engaged and motivated crowd. Apathy amongst a support should be a massive concern to any club, and there are early signs of it at St Mirren. faraway saint take note Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 it would be a completely meaningless comparison if Craig was brand new to the club. the fact that he was assistant for 3 years to a manager that has just been sacked makes it a valid comparison and, by the way, coughlin was sacked before Xmas in what would have been his first full season in charge the current bod have a record of getting rid of managers before Xmas and id be amazed if Craig is still here in october But he's a new manager. Coughlin wasn't new to the club either when he became manager, so in citing him as an example you're actually arguing against yourself. Even with Coughlin not being new, even with him being awful as a manager, he still got 11 months. Charity bet that TC won't be sacked before the 1st of November? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray7 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think Craig will be here until the end of the season at least. We will finish in the bottom two unless that changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 But he's a new manager. Coughlin wasn't new to the club either when he became manager, so in citing him as an example you're actually arguing against yourself. Even with Coughlin not being new, even with him being awful as a manager, he still got 11 months. Charity bet that TC won't be sacked before the 1st of November? But he was previously the assistant manager to a sacked manager. The last such manager was John Coughlin - and he was sacked before Xmas in his first full season in charge! So citing him as an example you are actually arguing against yourself! If you want to get right down to the specifics, the fact is that Tommy Craig is the first manager we've ever had under the current BoD who was previously an assistant manager and started out as manager at the very start of a season. Therefore, if you want to be that specific, there is no precedent for you to compare with! In additon, it may not be the current BoD who have the decision to make. And when folk start asking you for a bet its a sure fire sign that they've lost the argument... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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