A Simple Error Of Judgement

[Kendo]

Don't think you'll find many Hearts fans who thought he 'done well'. Most of them wanted him sacked throughout last season let's not forget. The general consensus among the media and fans at the start of the season was that Hearts would at least get close to survival, indeed the much revered journalist Tom English said it was 'only a matter of time before they caught up with the teams above them'.

In the end they never even got near us and the other teams above them. They started playing pretty well when the pressure was off and they were relegated but the vast majority of Hearts fans still wanted Locke gone at the end of last season.

It looks like he's currently trying his best to drag Killie into the relegation mix from a position of relative safety when he took over too.

He certainly wouldn't have been expensive, he ended up going to Killie as assistant. I think we could have done a lot better than him, that's for sure.

We did a lot worse than him that's for sure and are you still hoping Gary Teale is in charge next season?

[TopCat]

We did a lot worse than him that's for sure and are you still hoping Gary Teale is in charge next season?

Not after the last two games no, but I think he will be.

[nedflanders123]

Not after the last two games no, but I think he will be.

Personally, I think Gary will not be manager. I think the club have been burned and will look for a more experienced man to try and get us back up asap. I also feel they know that they need fans back on their side with season tickets critical to the club. Bringing someone in to put together a new squad will be key. Giving Gary the job is a huge risk and don't think the BOD will gamble again.

[TopCat]

Personally, I think Gary will not be manager. I think the club have been burned and will look for a more experienced man to try and get us back up asap. I also feel they know that they need fans back on their side with season tickets critical to the club. Bringing someone in to put together a new squad will be key. Giving Gary the job is a huge risk and don't think the BOD will gamble again.

I simply think we won't have the money to pay off his contract and bring in yet another manager.

[nedflanders123]

I simply think we won't have the money to pay off his contract and bring in yet another manager.

He is only contracted until end of season so has another year as a player. No need to pay him off from management duties AFAIK.

What we need to know is the BOD's plans for taking the club forward. If they gamble and keep Gary then he will get our support. If it goes wrong then fans will vote with their feet.

Edited April 15, 2015 by nedflanders123

[Mid Calder Saint]

Gary will be unable to fulfil the contract due to him being unfit to play.Best he can hope for at our club is either as a coach or No2.

[Stu]

He said a few weeks ago he expects to be here in some capacity as he has a contract for another year. He'd need to be paid off so that won't be happening.

And if we do get rid of him we'll probably go for Longwell, Goodwin or Thompson. The best to hope for outwith that would be a player/manager as it would cut down on a wage.

[stlucifer]

Neither Motherwell or Ross County broke the bank in January, far from it. Instead they signed wisely and have transformed their seasons as a result.

Motherwell signed a few players on loan but also added Pearson and McDonald. I don't know how much they would cost in wages.

As for Ross County. They parted company with more than a few "by mutual consent" and brought in six new players whose salary demands are unknown but at least two were transfers between clubs and at least one commanded an "undisclosed fee".

Something our club could ill afford. Especially after shipping out as many of our underacheivers as we could.

This said. I still think the BoDs made a clusterf*ck of it by not digging as deep as they could to ensure we had a manager wotrthy of the title.

[nedflanders123]

Gary will be unable to fulfil the contract due to him being unfit to play.Best he can hope for at our club is either as a coach or No2.

He shouldn't be unfit to play. He is still registered as a player. What happens at other clubs if a player cannot fulfill a playing contract? Perhaps a coaching role but what if a new manager wants to bring his own team?

[beyond our ken]

Signings have been a problem-we've had more than our fair share of bad ones, but whose fault has that been? i find it hard to believe that the managers who got us Thomson, Teale, Dummet, Newton, Concalves et al have suddenly lost their ability to spot a prospect. There has to be more to it. just as a good player doesnt go bad overnight a good manager and coach doesnt lose their grip in a few weeks. What would be interesting to know is, what is the club's signing policy? presumably (maybe a big assumption) they have tiers of salaries that are available to the manager each year. for the last few years, Goodwin, Thomson and Teale have probably been the top earners and all were on the tail end of their useful life. this means that it was very likely that the players we could sign were all middle or lower tier salary targets, the available pool of which will always be made up of

• Journeymen
• under acheivers who have something to prove and are therefore (possibly) worth a gamble
• players on the down-slope who can add a bit of experience and sparkle
• kids
• unknown quantities from abroad & the lower leagues

All of whom represent an unquantifiable gamble. If this is the case, as i suspect but cant prove that it is, then even Craig gets cut a wee bit of slack. Given the way Newton and Dummet played it was worth taking a risk on Adam Campbell and the MC kids. problem is that our safety net of talented old-timers no longer have the legs to cover their mistakes and bring them on, young players under pressure can go off very quickly.

I would quite easily believe that if GT went to the board and said he could move on 2 players taking £45k a year each and asked to bring 3 x 30K players in to spread his bet then the board would say "we'll have that 90k, but just pick your best hunch and sign one of the bargain boys".

As i said before, we need a proper review, as business men should be able to do for themselves, of all of the decisions that have been made. I'll thow a contentious one into the ring, has the money pumped into the Ralston complex been the best use of our resource? When you look at the likes of hearts and Hibs, ploughing capital into off-site training and academy facilities has been part of their downfall and it could be argued that that money might have been better spent on a couple of real up & comers every couple of years, or maybe on decent corporate facilities that took advantage of our strategic off-airport location and then supplied a St Johnstone style flow of funds that support good signings and youth development. When you look at it, how much have we recouped in transfer fees from the Ralston outlay? It has helped make us so potless that we end up seriously underselling our pre-academy talent just to make ends meet (everybody else knows this and takes full advantage).

You have to embrace risk as the return on a safe bet is usually negligible. Unfortunately, our prudent model has almost certainly contributed to our downfall. The only saving grace is that our assets are useless as anything other than football infrastructure and will be unlikely to be stripped off, one key reason why there is no credible bid in 5 years could be that there is nothing to secure an investment against.

What looked like a shiny new future 5 years ago quickly turned into disappointment as the support were intorduced to the new stadium and people said then that this could be the death of the club as we knew it. We are now a husk of that shiny wee dream.

Edited April 15, 2015 by beyond our ken

[Drew]

Thompson's injury and the impact it has had has nothing to do with luck. We should never have been looking to build our team (Tommy Craig's term) round a 35/36-year-old striker.

I would say Thompson's contribution has exceeded the expectations of many supporters (including myself) but every player has a shelf-life, and it was becoming apparent that Thompson was nearing the end of his, and no wonder. Even without the injury, it was expecting a hell of a lot from the guy to come up with the goods in yet another season.

[Vambo57]

of course, Sevco might not win a play-off and the leagues are reconstructed to ensure they are in the top tier...

just saying,...

[Dibbles old paperboy]

As has already been pointed out there are about 10 key errors of judgment at BoD in the last 12 months that have sunk us and not just one. I'm firmly convinced that if DL kept us up after a horrendous year of dealings in the transfer market last season then he would have been more careful this year, and I also think he has shown a ruthless streak in the past with senior players getting new deals. Would Teale, Goodwin, and Thompson still be at the club this year as players if DL had stayed... who knows? I'm pretty sure that we would look like a fitter SPL outfit if DL had still been boss and guys like Kello, Naismith, Kelly, McAusland, McGinn whose form has bombed under 2 new managers this year would have least reached acceptable SPL standards again. For all that has been said about the Caprices and Bahoken's signed by Danny and the Graingers, Harkins and Imrie's paid off on decent wages, he did still consistently find us a few decent finds each season while improving and bringing through younger players... Samson, Kello, Travner, Tesselaar, Dummet, McGregor, Goodwin, McGowan, Newton, Teale,Thompson, Hasselbaink, Goncalves, Parkin were all decent signings within our end of the market and on paper Imrie, Harkins and Grainger looked like decent shouts too, while we also saw more youth team players breaking through, McLean, McGinn, Reilly, Naismith and Kelly and holding down places in the starting XI. With more or less the same starting XI as this year DL got us to 8th last season, and when we entered the split in last place and it looked like we were heading down he got the team fighting and we won key head to heads and ended up the first bottom 6 team to be mathematically safe.

Besides the decision over Danny Lennon and not allowing him and fans the chances for a farewell send off, the board have twice ignored dozens of applications when we had a managerial vacancy. In appointing Gary Teale they even appointed someone who didn't meet their own experienced wheeler dealer criteria announced in December. We now also know (thanks to another leak?) that while the board were issuing the rallying cry for fans to back the team and manager and travel to Fir Park, the board had already realised Teale was another lousy decision and had looked at binning him to try and rescue the season but had concluded they couldn't find a cheap enough, I mean good enough experienced manager to replace him until the end of May.

[bungle_1981]

Signings have been a problem-we've had more than our fair share of bad ones, .

Here is list of our signings and loans since March 13, when we won the cup. A few get pass marks but generally makes depressing reading. We all accept that we must live within our means. But a small fortune must have been spent on wages for this lot. Surely the little wage budget we have could have been spent on better than this?

Bahoken Stephane

Caldwell Ross

Campbell Adam

Caprice Jake

Dilo Christopher

Djemba-Djemba Eric

Drury Adam

Grainger Danny

Harkins Gary

Magennis Josh

Marwood James

Plummer Ellis

Puri Sander

Tesselaar Jeroen

Gow Alan

Sadlier Kieran

Wylde Gregg

Ridgers Mark

Osbourne Isaac

Arquin Yoann

Ball Callum

Dayton James

Sonupe Emmanuel

Kello Marian

Genev Viktor

[Lord Pityme]

As has already been pointed out there are about 10 key errors of judgment at BoD in the last 12 months that have sunk us and not just one. I'm firmly convinced that if DL kept us up after a horrendous year of dealings in the transfer market last season then he would have been more careful this year, and I also think he has shown a ruthless streak in the past with senior players getting new deals. Would Teale, Goodwin, and Thompson still be at the club this year as players if DL had stayed... who knows? I'm pretty sure that we would look like a fitter SPL outfit if DL had still been boss and guys like Kello, Naismith, Kelly, McAusland, McGinn whose form has bombed under 2 new managers this year would have least reached acceptable SPL standards again. For all that has been said about the Caprices and Bahoken's signed by Danny and the Graingers, Harkins and Imrie's paid off on decent wages, he did still consistently find us a few decent finds each season while improving and bringing through younger players... Samson, Kello, Travner, Tesselaar, Dummet, McGregor, Goodwin, McGowan, Newton, Teale,Thompson, Hasselbaink, Goncalves, Parkin were all decent signings within our end of the market and on paper Imrie, Harkins and Grainger looked like decent shouts too, while we also saw more youth team players breaking through, McLean, McGinn, Reilly, Naismith and Kelly and holding down places in the starting XI. With more or less the same starting XI as this year DL got us to 8th last season, and when we entered the split in last place and it looked like we were heading down he got the team fighting and we won key head to heads and ended up the first bottom 6 team to be mathematically safe.

Besides the decision over Danny Lennon and not allowing him and fans the chances for a farewell send off, the board have twice ignored dozens of applications when we had a managerial vacancy. In appointing Gary Teale they even appointed someone who didn't meet their own experienced wheeler dealer criteria announced in December. We now also know (thanks to another leak?) that while the board were issuing the rallying cry for fans to back the team and manager and travel to Fir Park, the board had already realised Teale was another lousy decision and had looked at binning him to try and rescue the season but had concluded they couldn't find a cheap enough, I mean good enough experienced manager to replace him until the end of May.

Here is list of our signings and loans since March 13, when we won the cup. A few get pass marks but generally makes depressing reading. We all accept that we must live within our means. But a small fortune must have been spent on wages for this lot. Surely the little wage budget we have could have been spent on better than this?

Bahoken Stephane

Caldwell Ross

Campbell Adam

Caprice Jake

Dilo Christopher

Djemba-Djemba Eric

Drury Adam

Grainger Danny

Harkins Gary

Magennis Josh

Marwood James

Plummer Ellis

Puri Sander

Tesselaar Jeroen

Gow Alan

Sadlier Kieran

Wylde Gregg

Ridgers Mark

Osbourne Isaac

Arquin Yoann

Ball Callum

Dayton James

Sonupe Emmanuel

Kello Marian

Genev Viktor

These signings along with managerial mishaps are all as a direct result of the corner the selling consortium backed themselves into by setting up a closed group to sell the club, blocking everyone elses input out as they made decidions based on their desire to sell. It was a cataclismic mistake and they are now reaping what they've sown.

The fans every game, every season since have continued to invest, support and air their suggestions about the club. They have been stonewalled at every turn, just as you sow, shall you reap!

[pod]

Here is list of our signings and loans since March 13, when we won the cup. A few get pass marks but generally makes depressing reading. We all accept that we must live within our means. But a small fortune must have been spent on wages for this lot. Surely the little wage budget we have could have been spent on better than this?

Because of the little wage budget, it seems not.

[Magic Monkey]

Because of the little wage budget, it seems not.

But instead of 25 shite players, we could have signed 12 ok ones...

(I know that's not how the budget works, in that not all those players overlapped, but still, that list is remarkable.) I'm less generous than Bungle - I wouldn't give pass marks to a single one of those inbound transfers. Not one*. Underlines the point that Lennon had had his time - and he's only been made to look good by what followed.

* Edit: Sorry, I'd give pass marks to Kello last season.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Magic Monkey

[ScotstounSaint]

Here is list of our signings and loans since March 13, when we won the cup. A few get pass marks but generally makes depressing reading. We all accept that we must live within our means. But a small fortune must have been spent on wages for this lot. Surely the little wage budget we have could have been spent on better than this?

Bahoken Stephane

Caldwell Ross

Campbell Adam

Caprice Jake

Dilo Christopher

Djemba-Djemba Eric

Drury Adam

Grainger Danny

Harkins Gary

Magennis Josh

Marwood James

Plummer Ellis

Puri Sander

Tesselaar Jeroen

Gow Alan

Sadlier Kieran

Wylde Gregg

Ridgers Mark

Osbourne Isaac

Arquin Yoann

Ball Callum

Dayton James

Sonupe Emmanuel

Kello Marian

Genev Viktor

David Cornell as well? Also honking!

[beyond our ken]

But instead of 25 shite players, we could have signed 12 ok ones...

(I know that's not how the budget works, in that not all those players overlapped, but still, that list is remarkable.) I'm less generous than Bungle - I wouldn't give pass marks to a single one of those inbound transfers. Not one*. Underlines the point that Lennon had had his time - and he's only been made to look good by what followed.

* Edit: Sorry, I'd give pass marks to Kello last season.

Most of those were post-lennon signings

the one you give pass marks to was a Lennon signing

You could argue ( I would) that Wylde was an excellent player in the last few matches he had under lennon and has disappeared since

I think grainger was a reasonable punt given the level he had been at before his injury and he was moved on when it clearly wasn't going to work for him.

All in, you learn more in the hard times than you do in the good and Lennon could have been give another 6 months to see if he had taken his lumps and moved on.

One thing is for sure, if he keeps Alloa up and gets them a good start to next season his name will be back on a few short lists when managers start getting pumped in October

Edited April 15, 2015 by beyond our ken

[beyond our ken]

of course, Sevco might not win a play-off and the leagues are reconstructed to ensure they are in the top tier...

just saying,...

I'd think you'd find that the bottom club will still go down Colin

[DougJamie]

of course, Sevco might not win a play-off and the leagues are reconstructed to ensure they are in the top tier...

just saying,...

And its a very valid point, Sevco have certainly lined the pockets of many clubs on their journey from the abyss, be nice if they could line ours whilst losing 12 points. I could be wrong, but I cant see them do it, and would the SFA be that transparent - eh Yes. The car crash that is Regan and Carter----- sorry I mean Doncaster would do anything to stop their tenure being without doubt the biggest embarrassment ever, whilst foreign investors plough billions into the sub standard EPL we cant even quote millions, surely surely something has to be done. Right now we have a better play off scenario however no one really cares if its QOS verses well, that will bring in 6000 at most, our game is in the toilet, back in early 80s we used to push for Europe and hope to get a decent run, only Celtic have any chance of a few rounds. Prices remain high, talent remains low. Would I take a 16 team league-- eh yeah-- cause what ever we think of 2012 FC , SKY will open a purse if they dine at top table, otherwise part time football looms

[TopCat]

Here is list of our signings and loans since March 13, when we won the cup. A few get pass marks but generally makes depressing reading. We all accept that we must live within our means. But a small fortune must have been spent on wages for this lot. Surely the little wage budget we have could have been spent on better than this?

Bahoken Stephane

Caldwell Ross

Campbell Adam

Caprice Jake

Dilo Christopher

Djemba-Djemba Eric

Drury Adam

Grainger Danny

Harkins Gary

Magennis Josh

Marwood James

Plummer Ellis

Puri Sander

Tesselaar Jeroen

Gow Alan

Sadlier Kieran

Wylde Gregg

Ridgers Mark

Osbourne Isaac

Arquin Yoann

Ball Callum

Dayton James

Sonupe Emmanuel

Kello Marian

Genev Viktor

Christ that's a depressing list. I think we could really say one of those - Tesselaar - has been anything like a success.

A club like us simply can't make so many mistakes in four consecutive transfer windows and expect to stay up.

[TopCat]

As has already been pointed out there are about 10 key errors of judgment at BoD in the last 12 months that have sunk us and not just one. I'm firmly convinced that if DL kept us up after a horrendous year of dealings in the transfer market last season then he would have been more careful this year, and I also think he has shown a ruthless streak in the past with senior players getting new deals. Would Teale, Goodwin, and Thompson still be at the club this year as players if DL had stayed... who knows? I'm pretty sure that we would look like a fitter SPL outfit if DL had still been boss and guys like Kello, Naismith, Kelly, McAusland, McGinn whose form has bombed under 2 new managers this year would have least reached acceptable SPL standards again. For all that has been said about the Caprices and Bahoken's signed by Danny and the Graingers, Harkins and Imrie's paid off on decent wages, he did still consistently find us a few decent finds each season while improving and bringing through younger players... Samson, Kello, Travner, Tesselaar, Dummet, McGregor, Goodwin, McGowan, Newton, Teale,Thompson, Hasselbaink, Goncalves, Parkin were all decent signings within our end of the market and on paper Imrie, Harkins and Grainger looked like decent shouts too, while we also saw more youth team players breaking through, McLean, McGinn, Reilly, Naismith and Kelly and holding down places in the starting XI. With more or less the same starting XI as this year DL got us to 8th last season, and when we entered the split in last place and it looked like we were heading down he got the team fighting and we won key head to heads and ended up the first bottom 6 team to be mathematically safe.

Besides the decision over Danny Lennon and not allowing him and fans the chances for a farewell send off, the board have twice ignored dozens of applications when we had a managerial vacancy. In appointing Gary Teale they even appointed someone who didn't meet their own experienced wheeler dealer criteria announced in December. We now also know (thanks to another leak?) that while the board were issuing the rallying cry for fans to back the team and manager and travel to Fir Park, the board had already realised Teale was another lousy decision and had looked at binning him to try and rescue the season but had concluded they couldn't find a cheap enough, I mean good enough experienced manager to replace him until the end of May.

So your point is that even though Danny messed up in his fourth season in charge, you think he would have got it right for his fifth?

Danny messed up in his first window in the job. The summer of Beath, and then Lynch and Hegarty and McCluskey etc etc. Fair enough, new manager cut him some slack, and I think most did.

For him to have had an equally if not worse summer four years later... That cost him his job. And rightly so.

It's no wonder no full time team looked at him since then, despite him trying for jobs from Dingwall to Dumfries and everywhere in between.

[NeilPar72]

So your point is that even though Danny messed up in his fourth season in charge, you think he would have got it right for his fifth?

Danny messed up in his first window in the job. The summer of Beath, and then Lynch and Hegarty and McCluskey etc etc. Fair enough, new manager cut him some slack, and I think most did.

For him to have had an equally if not worse summer four years later... That cost him his job. And rightly so.

It's no wonder no full time team looked at him since then, despite him trying for jobs from Dingwall to Dumfries and everywhere in between.

Hahaha keep going. Are you trying to convince others or yourself of this tale?

The club has plummeted since he left and every player has regressed since he left.

[TopCat]

Hahaha keep going. Are you trying to convince others or yourself of this tale?

The club has plummeted since he left and every player has regressed since he left.

Of course that's more to do with subsequent events. Wouldn't say every player either, Kenny McLeans best form came under Craig and Teale, for example.

The reality of the matter is the vast vast majority of fans wanted him gone in the summer. Indeed the majority wanted him gone in March after we lost at home to St Johnstone infront of less than 3000 people.