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buddiecat
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Agreed, 700 is a milestone.

Next 300, needs a consistent number each day, I'd suggest 10 at least, to give any hope of a deadline rush to reach 1000.

Remember, I think 1,000 is a target, as opposed to an absolute requirement, but I agree, that should continue to be the clear and stated goal.

I think 750 will represent the surge of momentum required to push this over the line. Feeling a bit more positive, now.

Edited by Drew
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Guest TPAFKATS

Interview with Ian Murray where he speaks about the big malaise around the club at the moment

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14527776.Ian_Murray_on_his_troubled_time_as_St_Mirren_manager___quot_Relegation_sucked_the_life_out_of_the_club_quot_/

All the more reason to sign up. Needs to happen.

Interesting stuff, including his claim that up to 7 teams had a higher budget than us last season.
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Remember, I think 1,000 is a target, as opposed to an absolute requirement, but I agree, that should continue to be the clear and stated goal.

I think 750 will represent the surge of momentum required to push this over the line. Feeling a bit more positive, now.

You reckon 750 will be financially enough?

I'd think 750 would reflect a disinterested response and possibly a figure that would see this fail.

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1000 is what the current board want to see from SMISA before they will do the deal , also 1000 would give us a big comfort blanket in regards to members cancelling so it's sensible to aim for that but financially 700 would be comfortably enough to pay off the loan.

I believe we will get to 1k or very close to it by the deadline ..

There was an initial surge after launch and i believe their will be another surge when it gets close to the deadline

Edited by gazmc83
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Signed up yesterday. Completely forgot to do so due to recent ongoing back issues and surgery. Think I was member 694.

Welcome 694, I also had back problems last year, obviously i don't know what your particular back problem is, but Paisley physiotherapy centre fixed my back in 5 visits, i would recommend them to anyone.

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Very long post alert. Go and get the kettle on.

I've spoken to a couple of lads who haven't signed up yet and won't sign up "unless we're needed". The crux of that being that they are quite happy for the fans to own the club, they don't have a massive issue with SMiSA or GLS, but they really don't want to personally have any involvement in the whole thing and they'd much rather keep the £1,440 in their pocket for the next ten years and let everyone else pay for it.

Both said if push comes to shove nearer the deadline they will commit and help get it over the line. I guss they can't be alone in that school of thought.

The financial commitment is really the only argument that I've seen that I can understand.

Here's a few of the points I've seen raised against it;

There's no obvious business plan

The business plan of the football club currently is that we spend what we bring in. We aim to break even.

I think it's fair to say we're a bit lazy commercially. We do hospitality, we do dinners, we sell advertising boards, we kind of run a club shop. We sell season tickets. We get someone to sell pies and we have someone who sells strips. Aside from all the marvellous community work that doesn't generate us any direct revenue that, along with ticket sales on the day and gate receipts is where we get our income.

None of that is going to change for the worse. It's all the lowest hanging fruit there is for a football club to aim for. With new ideas and energy it absolutely stands to reason that we *might* increase our revenue. It's impossible for me to imagine how we could manage to reduce it other than by being relegated again and that's hopefully unlikely now that we have a manager that knows what he's doing.

The hope is that the academy produces a gem or two, and we get proper value for them. That's hard in the Championship but as Falkirk have proven, it can still be done. McLean and McGinn were stars, Mallan & Naismith are two more with heaps of potential. Morgan could make it. The academy IS working.

Nobody knows who will be on the initial board apart from GLS, Tony Fitzpatrick & a SMiSA member

That's three more people than you will know from any other prospective buyer and all of whom are died in the wool St.Mirren fans. Gordon will want to surround himself with like minded local business people. He's putting in £600K of his own money here remember, he doesn't want this to fail!!

I don't like SMiSA

Some people don't like SMiSA or individuals within SMiSA. That's life. Supporters groups will always have different opinions. The only thing that we all have in common is that we are all St.Mirren fans. In my opinion you need to look past the individual personalities and to the bigger picture here.

The fans don't know how to run a club

The club has been run by St.MIrren fans for the past 25 years or more, we haven't fared too badly in that time. We've been to two major finals, we've won one of them, we've been promoted twice as champions, we've re-developed one stadium, we've built a brand new stadium, we've had 7 years of top flight football and we've built a training academy that is the envy of many clubs of our size. If the guys on the board had done a shit job in the past you would have been powerless to do anything about it. In the future you will have the opportunity to campaign for under performing board members to bugger off.

The numbers don't add up

1000 fans paying £12 a month is £144,000 per annum.

£120,000 of that will go towards loan repayments.

£24,000 of that will be banked and can be used to benefit the football club.

That's £24K a year into the club that isn't currently going in. That's brand new money.

Within just over 3 years the loan element is paid back. Within another 7 years Gordon is paid back.

Imaging in 10 years time that there are 1500 members in the organisation, we've paid back all the money, and the fans vote to continue to pay £10 a month into a slush fund. That would potentially be £180K a year that we could spend on the club. All new money. All benefitting OUR club,

In addition to all of that there are the fans paying £25 a month, and the £50K contingency money from the £2.5K packages. All that reserve will be there for the rainy days when there are cashflow bumps in the road.

Fans will get bored and cancel their direct debits

As I've said above the loan element of the project could easily be paid off inside the next 3 years. The loan element of the project is the only aspect that puts the club at any risk. Why would the fans willingly want to jeapordise the future of the club by deserting en masse within the next 3 years? And if they did, do you think Gordon would sit back and watch his £600K personal investment go down the pan??

10 years IS a long time though, it is a long commitment. So say in years 6 or 7 there is a big tail off for whatever reason. Where are we then? Well the loan is paid off but we don't have enough to pay Gordon back. And so what? We are back to EXACTLY the position we are in right now where Gordon would be able to sell the majority shareholding on the open market. That's it, that's all that could really happen.

Gordon is going to be a friendly lender in any case. If SMiSA said we needed another year or so is he really going to stick two fingers up and tell them where to go? It's taken SG and co 7 YEARS to sell the club, who knows what the landscape will be like in 2026!

In Summary

Sorry for going on a bit but the risk here, in my opinion, really is pretty small. You don't need to see detailed business plans here to back this, it's almost a no brainer aside from the financial comittment. At £3 a week I'm happy to forego a pint or a pie (sorry Rosalind!) a week to fund the future of our club.

Well put Div. Just a wee point though, the loan element may well not put any club assets at risk at all.

Edited by buddiecat
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A post on the "St Mirren Supporters" Facebook page from a member of the St Mirren Fans Council.

"Heard a rumour that Ken McGeoch will be on the board if the SMISA bid is successful"

Any truth to these "rumours"?

It wouldn't bother me if he is. He's put a lot of time and money in in the past, his family are still fans and when all that Sevco shit broke we only got one side of the story !

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A post on the "St Mirren Supporters" Facebook page from a member of the St Mirren Fans Council.

"Heard a rumour that Ken McGeoch will be on the board if the SMISA bid is successful"

Any truth to these "rumours"?

I think it's safe to say this a completely unfounded rumour designed to harm the SMISA bid and highly unlikely to be true , it would very much not be in Gordon's interests to cause division in the SMISA members & fans by appointing mcgeeoch to the board given the dramas of a few years ago

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Very long post alert. Go and get the kettle on.

I've spoken to a couple of lads who haven't signed up yet and won't sign up "unless we're needed". The crux of that being that they are quite happy for the fans to own the club, they don't have a massive issue with SMiSA or GLS, but they really don't want to personally have any involvement in the whole thing and they'd much rather keep the £1,440 in their pocket for the next ten years and let everyone else pay for it.

Both said if push comes to shove nearer the deadline they will commit and help get it over the line. I guss they can't be alone in that school of thought.

The financial commitment is really the only argument that I've seen that I can understand.

Here's a few of the points I've seen raised against it;

There's no obvious business plan

The business plan of the football club currently is that we spend what we bring in. We aim to break even.

I think it's fair to say we're a bit lazy commercially. We do hospitality, we do dinners, we sell advertising boards, we kind of run a club shop. We sell season tickets. We get someone to sell pies and we have someone who sells strips. Aside from all the marvellous community work that doesn't generate us any direct revenue that, along with ticket sales on the day and gate receipts is where we get our income.

None of that is going to change for the worse. It's all the lowest hanging fruit there is for a football club to aim for. With new ideas and energy it absolutely stands to reason that we *might* increase our revenue. It's impossible for me to imagine how we could manage to reduce it other than by being relegated again and that's hopefully unlikely now that we have a manager that knows what he's doing.

The hope is that the academy produces a gem or two, and we get proper value for them. That's hard in the Championship but as Falkirk have proven, it can still be done. McLean and McGinn were stars, Mallan & Naismith are two more with heaps of potential. Morgan could make it. The academy IS working.

Nobody knows who will be on the initial board apart from GLS, Tony Fitzpatrick & a SMiSA member

That's three more people than you will know from any other prospective buyer and all of whom are died in the wool St.Mirren fans. Gordon will want to surround himself with like minded local business people. He's putting in £600K of his own money here remember, he doesn't want this to fail!!

I don't like SMiSA

Some people don't like SMiSA or individuals within SMiSA. That's life. Supporters groups will always have different opinions. The only thing that we all have in common is that we are all St.Mirren fans. In my opinion you need to look past the individual personalities and to the bigger picture here.

The fans don't know how to run a club

The club has been run by St.MIrren fans for the past 25 years or more, we haven't fared too badly in that time. We've been to two major finals, we've won one of them, we've been promoted twice as champions, we've re-developed one stadium, we've built a brand new stadium, we've had 7 years of top flight football and we've built a training academy that is the envy of many clubs of our size. If the guys on the board had done a shit job in the past you would have been powerless to do anything about it. In the future you will have the opportunity to campaign for under performing board members to bugger off.

The numbers don't add up

1000 fans paying £12 a month is £144,000 per annum.

£120,000 of that will go towards loan repayments.

£24,000 of that will be banked and can be used to benefit the football club.

That's £24K a year into the club that isn't currently going in. That's brand new money.

Within just over 3 years the loan element is paid back. Within another 7 years Gordon is paid back.

Imaging in 10 years time that there are 1500 members in the organisation, we've paid back all the money, and the fans vote to continue to pay £10 a month into a slush fund. That would potentially be £180K a year that we could spend on the club. All new money. All benefitting OUR club,

In addition to all of that there are the fans paying £25 a month, and the £50K contingency money from the £2.5K packages. All that reserve will be there for the rainy days when there are cashflow bumps in the road.

Fans will get bored and cancel their direct debits

As I've said above the loan element of the project could easily be paid off inside the next 3 years. The loan element of the project is the only aspect that puts the club at any risk. Why would the fans willingly want to jeapordise the future of the club by deserting en masse within the next 3 years? And if they did, do you think Gordon would sit back and watch his £600K personal investment go down the pan??

10 years IS a long time though, it is a long commitment. So say in years 6 or 7 there is a big tail off for whatever reason. Where are we then? Well the loan is paid off but we don't have enough to pay Gordon back. And so what? We are back to EXACTLY the position we are in right now where Gordon would be able to sell the majority shareholding on the open market. That's it, that's all that could really happen.

Gordon is going to be a friendly lender in any case. If SMiSA said we needed another year or so is he really going to stick two fingers up and tell them where to go? It's taken SG and co 7 YEARS to sell the club, who knows what the landscape will be like in 2026!

In Summary

Sorry for going on a bit but the risk here, in my opinion, really is pretty small. You don't need to see detailed business plans here to back this, it's almost a no brainer aside from the financial comittment. At £3 a week I'm happy to forego a pint or a pie (sorry Rosalind!) a week to fund the future of our club.

Well put Div. Just a wee point though, the loan element may well not put any club assets at risk at all.

Yes it is a great post by Div. Don't want to be negative here but why has Div got to sell the plan . Where the he'll are the ones who should be selling the plan.
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None of the points Div raised that may be putting people off are putting me off, but I have to admit, a bit of explanation or discussion about them would have been something I would have welcomed - say on a dedicated Q&A thread on this very forum.

Who knows, if those swithering about signing up had concerns, and could have them answered directly on here by the SMiSA/GLS camp, they might have had their concerns addressed and would then sign up.

Edited by pozbaird
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The only bit of Div's post I'd take issue with is the claim that the clubs "marvellous community work" doesn't generate any revenue. Really? A five figure grant from the SFP, a five figure payment from the local council to rename the stadium and five figure grants from the SFA and from their sponsorship partners paid up front to run each one of these programmes - I'd say that's generating revenue.

St Mirren are hardly a benevolent supplier of these programmes. Gilmour said as much at the meeting in 2012 that we were in attendance at when he talked about how any redundancies during this "Armageddon" period the club had entered, might not be the obvious ones due to some posts being self funded.

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I liked most of Div's post... probably the most persuasive post I've read. As far as naming board members goes, while we may have no details from other potential buyers about who would be on their board if they takeover, none of them are asking us to fund their takeovers. At the moment we have a fan ownership takeover bid where the fans buying the club and signing up to 120 direct debits are not being told how many other people will be on the board besides the 1 rep they can vote for, and we're not being told if any of the current directors will stay on in the new board. Why do these potentially matter? We are being told the current board want out and have no more energy and no new ideas to carry the club forward and the SMISA / GLS bid will bring in fresh faces and new energy and a new approach and new ideas... so can we take it as read that all the old tired, unenthusiastic board are all going? Are any staying... in which case how many and how much energy and new ideas have they suddenly found.

1 fans rep on a small board is decent, especially if SMISA will hold 30% (?) of the shares. If we have a larger board and only 1 fans rep but a sizeable % of the shareholding then I think we should be asking for a proportionate number of board members.

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The only bit of Div's post I'd take issue with is the claim that the clubs "marvellous community work" doesn't generate any revenue. Really? A five figure grant from the SFP, a five figure payment from the local council to rename the stadium and five figure grants from the SFA and from their sponsorship partners paid up front to run each one of these programmes - I'd say that's generating revenue.

St Mirren are hardly a benevolent supplier of these programmes. Gilmour said as much at the meeting in 2012 that we were in attendance at when he talked about how any redundancies during this "Armageddon" period the club had entered, might not be the obvious ones due to some posts being self funded.

But aren't the grants only being used for the activity they are meant for? I'm guessing Div means that having 100 kids run about the Airdome isn't going to put £100k on to our bottom line...

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