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jimdickloyal

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My point was more that if we have ambition to be a top 6 side which our board keep saying, we won’t get there by selling our best players to others in that category. We can’t compete with wages of the ugly sister which is why if they start showing an interest we can’t do much but rather than using hibs or Aberdeen as stepping stones to English football we have to inspire players with a vision they can use use as the stepping stone to the EPL. I know it’s changed days but Tony harps back to the early 80’s, well in those days Mcgarvey, McAvennie and Clarke didn’t need to go from us to another Scottish team to get their move to England. I fully appreciate we are selling the vision to players of using us as a stepping stone in their careers but please not to Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. 

Agree. And I’d be particularly disappointed if he went to Aberdeen as part of the great Glass project which I think will take at least a season to get off the ground.
We will be a selling club, but if he does go to further his career, I’d hope it would be directly to England and they pay us a decent fee - and a lucrative sell on clause.

IMHO Moving to Aberdeen this summer would be a backward step for his career.
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Aberdeen just now would be a poor move for McGrath. They are a shambles of a club at the moment, leaking millions with many of the squad out of contract. Their inexperienced manager has a major rebuilding job for next season. Hardly a place to push on from.
Jamie should sign an extension with us with a buy out clause and wait for a Championship club to come calling offering him and us megabucks.

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Agree with your comments it has been reported that newly promoted Peterborough are keen but he should extend his contract for another year to develop here and if he continues there will be a host of top English Championship sides after him there is no doubt he is an extremely talented midfielder and once he gets his first cap for Ireland which is a certainty his value will increase but if we want to be a top six club we cannot and must not be selling to the likes of Dons and Hibs

Aberdeen just now would be a poor move for McGrath. They are a shambles of a club at the moment, leaking millions with many of the squad out of contract. Their inexperienced manager has a major rebuilding job for next season. Hardly a place to push on from.
Jamie should sign an extension with us with a buy out clause and wait for a Championship club to come calling offering him and us megabucks.
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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If a player wants to move on, we should let him do so with the absolute minimum of fuss as long as we get the financial deal we are looking for.

 

and if we don't get the financial deal we are looking for. 

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3 hours ago, Bgsaint said:

My point was more that if we have ambition to be a top 6 side which our board keep saying, we won’t get there by selling our best players to others in that category. We can’t compete with wages of the ugly sister which is why if they start showing an interest we can’t do much but rather than using hibs or Aberdeen as stepping stones to English football we have to inspire players with a vision they can use use as the stepping stone to the EPL. I know it’s changed days but Tony harps back to the early 80’s, well in those days Mcgarvey, McAvennie and Clarke didn’t need to go from us to another Scottish team to get their move to England. I fully appreciate we are selling the vision to players of using us as a stepping stone in their careers but please not to Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. 

Yep, I do agree with the sentiment but the reality is that right now, we're not a position to refuse transfer fees or block players from moving. IMO that's just going to prevent other players coming here and will be self-defeating.

So how do we break that cycle?

By taking opportunities when they land on our laps like winning this Cup for a start and getting to Europe. Finishing top 6 would be another and we got within a few minutes of doing that without a decent striker. If we'd had Dennis and Quaner fully fit I am pretty confident we'd have finished top 6, won the League Cup and be looking at another trophy in the Scottish Cup. All of this makes it easier to recruit and keep better players. We have to punch way above our weight first and whilst we're almost there we have a bit to go.

We need to make sure that when the McGraths move on that we have others coming through. Personally, I think we need to be largely producing our own like Henderson and Reid.

Also, in the 80s, the clubs had all the power and could end a players career. England wasn't as far away from Scottish football as it is now. Comparisons with those days are futile really.

Edited by oaksoft
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3 hours ago, turrabuddie said:


Agree. And I’d be particularly disappointed if he went to Aberdeen as part of the great Glass project which I think will take at least a season to get off the ground.
We will be a selling club, but if he does go to further his career, I’d hope it would be directly to England and they pay us a decent fee - and a lucrative sell on clause.

IMHO Moving to Aberdeen this summer would be a backward step for his career.

They'll almost certainly quadruple his wages (perhaps even more) and they may even build a team around him if they think he's that good.

He'll also be playing European football.

No way is that a backwards move from where he is right now.

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27 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yep, I do agree with the sentiment but the reality is that right now, we're not a position to refuse transfer fees or block players from moving. IMO that's just going to prevent other players coming here and will be self-defeating.

So how do we break that cycle?

By taking opportunities when they land on our laps like winning this Cup for a start and getting to Europe. Finishing top 6 would be another and we got within a few minutes of doing that without a decent striker. If we'd had Dennis and Quaner fully fit I am pretty confident we'd have finished top 6, won the League Cup and be looking at another trophy in the Scottish Cup. All of this makes it easier to recruit and keep better players. We have to punch way above our weight first and whilst we're almost there we have a bit to go.

We need to make sure that when the McGraths move on that we have others coming through. Personally, I think we need to be largely producing our own like Henderson and Reid.

Also, in the 80s, the clubs had all the power and could end a players career. England wasn't as far away from Scottish football as it is now. Comparisons with those days are futile really.

I accept that the reality is he’d make more money at Aberdeen and perhaps some money now is better than no money in a year, and that the reality is Aberdeen is a bigger club. However if the board isn’t fighting to keep him and convince him to use us to get a bigger move to England then they can stops talking about trying to compete with teams at the top end of the league. Just say we will settle for 7-10th place every year. Or say it will take us a few years to compete at the higher end. I’m sure they are trying to keep him. 

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1 hour ago, pod said:

There's me thinking I was directing a question to your quote. :unsure:

 

1 hour ago, pod said:

There's me thinking I was directing a question to your quote. :unsure:

 

I imagine all the players would have a trigger value in their contracts but if a club offered less I have no idea what Tony would do.

As I said, you'd need to direct that question to Tony.

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I think a lot rests on where we end up at end of season, if we finish 7th with more points as the 2 above then there surely there must be the motivation for to push for higher next season for any undecided players. As I've said before out with the big 2 and maybe county and accies there really isn't much between the other 8 just if you can put a run together and get a good mentality then we can be up there. Aberdeen and a few others are a car crash waiting to happen again once their players don't agree to deferring wages etc.

Unfortunately some may think the grass is greener, same as any forms of work.

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29 minutes ago, Cumbriansaint72 said:

I think a lot rests on where we end up at end of season, if we finish 7th with more points as the 2 above then there surely there must be the motivation for to push for higher next season for any undecided players. As I've said before out with the big 2 and maybe county and accies there really isn't much between the other 8 just if you can put a run together and get a good mentality then we can be up there. Aberdeen and a few others are a car crash waiting to happen again once their players don't agree to deferring wages etc.

Unfortunately some may think the grass is greener, same as any forms of work.

Just one small point. This nonsense about us finishing with more points than the team in 6th really is just that. Nonsense.

In theory, provided there isn’t too big a gap at the split, the team in 7th should always end up with more points than the team in 6th. The team in 7th is (again in theory) the best of the shite teams and the team in 6th is the worst of the good teams. On that basis, the former should always have a better chance of picking up more points post split than the latter.

If we finish with more points than the team in 6th it is completely meaningless. 

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38 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Just one small point. This nonsense about us finishing with more points than the team in 6th really is just that. Nonsense.

In theory, provided there isn’t too big a gap at the split, the team in 7th should always end up with more points than the team in 6th. The team in 7th is (again in theory) the best of the shite teams and the team in 6th is the worst of the good teams. On that basis, the former should always have a better chance of picking up more points post split than the latter.

If we finish with more points than the team in 6th it is completely meaningless. 

It all depends on how you look at it. I would use it as a motivational tool for the players if I was JG to be fair.

Finishing with more points does seem meaningless at moment and does seem rather odd to everyone I work with tbh but a good way of saying to players 'you can do it!!'. A good finish to season and push on for next, we haven'thad that for years in top flight.

Edited by Cumbriansaint72
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16 minutes ago, antrin said:

A Sun headline( I wouldn't click for permissions - so haven't read the actual article) says Saints are tapping up the fake Saints' O'Halloran...?

 

No thanks, not for me. Hopefully just a rumour. 

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52 minutes ago, Cumbriansaint72 said:

It all depends on how you look at it. I would use it as a motivational tool for the players if I was JG to be fair.

Finishing with more points does seem meaningless at moment and does seem rather odd to everyone I work with tbh but a good way of saying to players 'you can do it!!'. A good finish to season and push on for next, we haven'thad that for years in top flight.

No mate, I think you’re missing my point. It’s meaningless because at the split the top 6 and the bottom 6 effectively becomes two completely separate and unrelated mini leagues. The fact that we get more points from playing the likes of Accies and Ross Co, than say Livi do from playing Celtic and Rangers is completely immaterial. There is (in my opinion anyway) zero motivational capital to be gained from this other than of course winning football matches. 

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41 minutes ago, munoz said:

No thanks, not for me. Hopefully just a rumour. 

Agreed. I think his star has fallen in recent times. Don’t think he’s ever been the same since he went to the CBs. One of many.

I’d probably have him as a squad player but I certainly wouldn’t be pushing the boat out for him. 

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They'll almost certainly quadruple his wages (perhaps even more) and they may even build a team around him if they think he's that good.
He'll also be playing European football.
No way is that a backwards move from where he is right now.

Is this the same Aberdeen who couldn’t match our offer to Brophy ?

Let’s just agree to disagree.
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2 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

No mate, I think you’re missing my point. It’s meaningless because at the split the top 6 and the bottom 6 effectively becomes two completely separate and unrelated mini leagues. The fact that we get more points from playing the likes of Accies and Ross Co, than say Livi do from playing Celtic and Rangers is completely immaterial. There is (in my opinion anyway) zero motivational capital to be gained from this other than of course winning football matches. 

I do see where you are coming from, I just look on it a bit different.

 

Life would be boring if we were all of the same view👍

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On 4/27/2021 at 10:46 PM, Slash said:

That would piss me right off. I still hate those sheep shaggers for stealing Bell, Weir, Stark and McDougall from us in the 70s and 80s.

They stole Bell,Cowan and paid a paltry fee for Stark

MacDougall ended up a bargain but that was down to the player and the manager who got the most out of him

Weir they paid a Scottish record fee for the time plus they gave us Scanlon(God) as well

We did better later on selling them Cameron,Winnie and Gillies for decent money

McLean was a sore one as it sealed our fate that season

To me the BOD did the dirty on Teale

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