Leicester Saint Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 The silence is deafening from the BOD.As it always is when the chips are down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flareybob Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 He has still not resigned or been sacked yet, disgraceful. Tommy grow a pair and resign or Shylock Gilmour should stop his arrogance and sack Tommy Craig. Do the BOD read these forums? If so then they must see that the vast majority of St Mirren fans do not want Tommy Craig to continue as manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Do the BOD read these forums? If so then they must see that the vast majority of St Mirren fans do not want Tommy Craig to continue as manager. I'd say the vast majority of fans don't post on here? Edited November 13, 2014 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'd say the vats majority of fans don't post on here? Value Added Tommy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Really glad to see all above, so its not just me that throws the cat at the telly after I hear his drivel, so now, its injuries geez. So we cant score, unless we hit on break, we cant force, he talks about the academy so why is Marwood, Ball still getting a look in, We have had guys who have adapted, Higdon, Thommo and even Mehmet, why does he keep these guys in? Answer, he has no clue. If the BOD cant speak and act we are down, and like 1991 it will be a good few years till we are back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Davidg. What I will say is that at the match on Saturday there was loud booing at the end from the Main Stand and towards the end there was chanting for Tommy to get to """" coming from the opposite side of the ground. There is little doubt that Tommy has lost the support of the fans and perhaps dare I say from the dressing room. Fed up saying he should not have been appointed in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Having read the accounts, i reckon that the board thought they could simply save some cash by getting shot of Lennon and effectively not replacing him they would have known that Lennon was a clueless puppet and that tommy Craig was the 'brains' i don't think this season would have been any different had Lennon stayed appointing a new manager with his own assistant would have cost extra money and the money saved enabled us to sign ball and marwood was it worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Totally agree. Lenny would make no difference. I still watch the recorded League Cup Final and Semi Final, so many who are either deemed useless or loaned. TC has had a career in football, but he is a coach, I don't actually blame him, maybe he cant afford to chuck it? One thing is BOD surely cant afford relegation, but hey they appointed Lenny with his Cowdenbeath players and we stayed up, this year the league is far poorer, standards are dropping. no incomes no Gers, dare I say even no Morton, this really would be the time to develop the academy players, make some young players, look at potential and also potential sell ons, but no, we recruit non League deadbeats, we get shot of talent, we loan non experience and promote where not merited. Not alone here but, get shot of TC or keep him and get Thommo as co manager, get dressing room back, sack Goodwin , get us as one. To stay up we need to be better than County and Thistle, if we cant be that then its Falkirk next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flareybob Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 If he hasn't gone by the Scottish Cup tie at home to ICT, then I can see the attendance being around the 500-600 mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 If he hasn't gone by the Scottish Cup tie at home to ICT, then I can see the attendance being around the 500-600 mark Will Inverness bring that many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Interesting article below About Contact Search Archive RSS banner The Permanent Assistant - St Mirren and Tommy Craig Sometimes it’s best to just admit you’re wrong. I predicted Killie would be the worst team in the Premiership this year and they aren’t. St Mirren are. Where even Ross County have shown brief interludes of being capable of so much better, St Mirren have shown none and it is hard not to point the finger at both the board and at manager Tommy Craig for that as while the issues in the side have been identified, the proof on the pitch appears to show that nothing has been done to correct them. Tommy Craig was always a bit of an odd appointment after Danny Lennon. If the St Mirren board ejected Lennon to get away from his style of play, they chose a man who offers nothing but more of the same. Except worse. That, in itself, is not Tommy Craig’s fault. It may be his fault that the issues at the club aren’t solved - after all, there’s only so long you can say that you have issues up front before the question of why those issues exist turns into one of why you haven’t fixed those issues yourself - but Tommy Craig is one in a line of assistants who take over the reins as manager who simply don’t have what it takes to run a club. In football today, one can see for themselves how Norwich are doing under Neil Adams as proof of that. Garry Monk at Swansea may be a counterpoint to that but, unlike Craig, he hasn’t had two decades of experience behind him before taking over as manager. Craig’s career surely speaks for itself - assistant (twice) at Hibs, assistant at Celtic, coach at Newcastle, Scotland Under 21s coach - it took him 25 years to be entrusted with his first proper management job at Charleroi where he went from Assistant to Boss following John Collins. 25 years to get a head job, sacked within 6 months. That alone should surely have convinced the St Mirren board that doing the same with Craig after Danny Lennon perhaps might not be the smartest idea in the world. Apparently not. And Craig’s St Mirren experience closely tracks that of another respected coach trusted at another struggling club who similarly saw it all go to hell - Les Reed at Charlton. Reed’s career followed a similar path - assistant in non league, development officer for the English FA, technical director of the FA, assistant at Charlton until, after 20 years of coaching experience, he was given the managers job at Charlton taking over from Iain Dowie. He lasted an entire six weeks - getting knocked out of a cup by Wycombe (when Charlton were still in the EPL), winning 1 game and contributing a lot to getting the club relegated. He is now head of the youth academy and recruitment at Southampton and discovered Chris Smalling for Fulham. A pretty good recovery if you ask me. But it’s telling that a man who was once voted as the worst manager ever can make such a sound recovery. He, like Tommy Craig, is not short of expertise or acumen, he’s just not a football manager and that’s not anything to be ashamed of. However, Charlton were at least wise enough to see this after six weeks. Tommy Craig has had six months and the longer he goes on, the worse St Mirren are looking. There comes a point where the club have to admit they backed the wrong horse on this one and fun themselves another horse. At the end of the day, it’s just not what Tommy Craig is good at. That error of judgement has to be rectified before the club wake up next season having prayed for transition but got relegation. 10 hours ago Comments Permalink Share http://tmblr.co/ZEvyKx1VPaPSo Tweet Recent comments Please enable JavaScript to view the comments powered by Disqus. 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Big Yards Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'd say the vats majority of fans don't post on here? What about all the over 60s who don't come on here to give theor opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 What about all the over 60s who don't come on here to give theor opinion? You jest, surely. Their the grumpy one's and there's many of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 The club is more important than any one individual...........and that is why we should get behind the team with as much support as possible. However..... For the first time in my life supporting Saints, I'm completely disillusioned and struggling to find the motivation to go to games. I don't think I'm alone. I dont think I've not missed a game this season. TC is clearly out of his depth and has lost most goodwill (and Goodwin from the team due to multiple suspensions) from the support that for the first time I am having doubts about attending the ICT cup tie. No matter how bad we did in the leagues under different managers I always looked forward to Scottish Cup. What's changed? Maybe older and wiser.....or perhaps just totally fecked off with how stale our club has become from top to bottom. I usually sign off with COYS. Perhaps COTF would be more appropriate.....I'm desperate to see some positive change on the park, but I feel that will only happen when there is a change of leadership at BoD, Management and playing personnel. Come on tae feck! COYS !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) The club is more important than any one individual...........and that is why we should get behind the team with as much support as possible. However..... For the first time in my life supporting Saints, I'm completely disillusioned and struggling to find the motivation to go to games. I don't think I'm alone. I dont think I've not missed a game this season. TC is clearly out of his depth and has lost most goodwill (and Goodwin from the team due to multiple suspensions) from the support that for the first time I am having doubts about attending the ICT cup tie. No matter how bad we did in the leagues under different managers I always looked forward to Scottish Cup. What's changed? Maybe older and wiser.....or perhaps just totally fecked off with how stale our club has become from top to bottom. I usually sign off with COYS. Perhaps COTF would be more appropriate.....I'm desperate to see some positive change on the park, but I feel that will only happen when there is a change of leadership at BoD, Management and playing personnel. Come on tae feck! I could have made this very post about 4 or 5 years ago (substituting DL for TC and deleting the reference to Goodwin). As you say,maybe it is something to do with getting a bit older but I think disillusionment and disappointment has been the driver for me. I remember a few years ago when I gave up travelling on the supporters bus someone on here posted a wee (good natured) dig at me. Mind your back. Edited November 13, 2014 by Wilbur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 The point is, even IF the board come to their senses and dismiss Craig,albeit months too late, their previous track record in making appointments would inspire absolutely no confidence that a competent successor would be installed. On the contrary, particularly as finance seems to be the main issue, another uninspiring choice is the most likely. However given the certainty of demotion if Craig remains in place, we are left with no choice other than to let them get on with it.Theres a two week break yet again between games, one of which has already passed without even a murmur from the boardroom.Defeat at home in a Scottish cup tie against a team from the same league may be acceptable to some, but the pitiful attendance I predict, will be a shocker and likely the shape of things to come if action is not taken very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Interesting posts above, and lots of sense, we pay to see Saints play, and they are a product. For quite a while that product has been faulty. Last 3 appointments have had us scratching heads but this year and certainly next year there is no escape, that's why other BODs realized improve or face a few years out We have had in our charmed SPL existence several escape clauses, Hearts, Gretna, Dundee (who got one weeks notice) and Hibs in freefall, add to that Dunfermline imploding . Fact is we always lose far more than we win, we basically tread water.We have a new stadium, a training academy and no debt- all good but what we don't have is a BOD who are engaged, they will happily see us 10th every season and will fund accordingly,thats the issue. Not TC, not DL or GM last two showing no one rates them really. Ross County bring in young up and coming, Killie show unity, Caley show talent, United show young pretenders, Well show they have Steel, St Johnstone show progress, so come on. TC is not the reason. As much as love Saints we need Hamilton to beat us 7-0 we then need to lose again, till the BOD are forced to act, take a real manager, get real coaches, get a real CF, not rely on Thommo who at 36 should be thinking of fronting Sportscene. Time for reality , we have been for many years a poor side playing with teams who want success not survival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 We have a new stadium, a training academy and no debt- all good but what we don't have is a BOD who are engaged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Interesting posts above, and lots of sense, we pay to see Saints play, and they are a product. For quite a while that product has been faulty. Last 3 appointments have had us scratching heads but this year and certainly next year there is no escape, that's why other BODs realized improve or face a few years out We have had in our charmed SPL existence several escape clauses, Hearts, Gretna, Dundee (who got one weeks notice) and Hibs in freefall, add to that Dunfermline imploding . Fact is we always lose far more than we win, we basically tread water.We have a new stadium, a training academy and no debt- all good but what we don't have is a BOD who are engaged, they will happily see us 10th every season and will fund accordingly,thats the issue. Not TC, not DL or GM last two showing no one rates them really. Ross County bring in young up and coming, Killie show unity, Caley show talent, United show young pretenders, Well show they have Steel, St Johnstone show progress, so come on. TC is not the reason. As much as love Saints we need Hamilton to beat us 7-0 we then need to lose again, till the BOD are forced to act, take a real manager, get real coaches, get a real CF, not rely on Thommo who at 36 should be thinking of fronting Sportscene. Time for reality , we have been for many years a poor side playing with teams who want success not survival Last three appointments were GM - seemed the inevitable choice as next manager once he'd arrived as player/assistant manager, I don't remember many people being surprised at the time. DL - might have surprised some but at the time he was appointed he had a decent record with Cowdenbeath and was regarded as a young manager "on the up". TC - not the cheap option but probably the lazy one, even then it had some merit in that it was done quickly, DL out on the Monday, TC appointed as manager with JG/GT as player/coaches on the Tuesday. I guess the theory was that they would know the squad's weaknesses and be ready to get to work strengthening it straight away as this quote from the BBC on the day of their new appointments suggests. St Mirren said Craig and his assistants would have an important role in improving the club's fortunes. "The initial work for Tommy will be to re-sign the players who are out of contract that he wishes to see remain in his squad, together with the identification of signing targets throughout the summer and programme our pre-season plans," the statement continued. I argued against new contacts for JG (poor disciplinary record) & GT (crocked) in the discussions at the end of last season but that's another issue, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt over Thommo's injury (although I still can't believe he was played against Dunfermline) but it beggars belief that we went into the season with just two CH's & no experienced cover for JG, which resulted in the panic signing of the injury prone Ozzy Osbourne during JG's first suspension of the season. Clearly it hasn't been the smooth takeover hoped for but as the leaks about our financial situation show we're caught between a rock and a hard place. ************************ As to our correct position in the hierarchy of Scottish football, historically we're 9th in the all time league and that is with Dundee Utd. below us although they've been a bigger team for at least 30 years and doesn't reflect the current strength of ICT or Ross County. We're gonna be bottom feeders in a 12 team top division more often than not although this season it's disappointing given the absentees but that's what league football is about - finding out who's the best/worst over 38 games, and I'd also agree it's disappointing never to have even put in a close challenge for a Top Six finish during the past eight seasons. PS - In the Gretna season we finished above Kilmarnock. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/all-time-table/full ****************************** I guess we're gonna have to hope for a miracle comeback from Thommo or hitting it lucky in the January transfer window - as always COYS but be prepared for a rocky ride! Edited November 14, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Bud the baker is correct that st Mirren are historically 9th and allowing for Dundee united then, then, really, we are 10th however... 3 of the big 5 are currently in the division below us so that puts us 7th in the current top flight and 3 of the 7 above us are Motherwell, Kilmarnock and Dundee... Clubs that we have historically competed with on an relatively even basis indeed, all 3 of these clubs have seen their recent records boosted by massive unsustainable spending over 2 decades approx and Dundee have only just been promoted and have 3 of our rejects as regulars in the first team while Kilmarnock finished below us last season and motherwell are sh1t this season this is our 9th consecutive season in the top flight. We have mo bank debt, top class training facilities and longwell's youth policy has been in force for over a decade if ever there was a season when we should be competing for the top 6 then its this one. but we aren't... cos we have a clueless manager, we've made shit signings and we have a dreadful youth system that fails to bring us real top class players (john mcginn excepted) who can make a real difference or transfer fees to invest in the squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Last three appointments were GM - seemed the inevitable choice as next manager once he'd arrived as player/assistant manager, I don't remember many people being surprised at the time. DL - might have surprised some but at the time he was appointed he had a decent record with Cowdenbeath and was regarded as a young manager "on the up". TC - not the cheap option but probably the lazy one, even then it had some merit in that it was done quickly, DL out on the Monday, TC appointed as manager with JG/GT as player/coaches on the Tuesday. I guess the theory was that they would know the squad's weaknesses and be ready to get to work strengthening it straight away as this quote from the BBC on the day of their new appointments suggests. I argued against new contacts for JG (poor disciplinary record) & GT (crocked) in the discussions at the end of last season but that's another issue, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt over Thommo's injury (although I still can't believe he was played against Dunfermline) but it beggars belief that we went into the season with just two CH's & no experienced cover for JG, which resulted in the panic signing of the injury prone Ozzy Osbourne during JG's first suspension of the season. Clearly it hasn't been the smooth takeover hoped for but as the leaks about our financial situation show we're caught between a rock and a hard place. ************************ As to our correct position in the hierarchy of Scottish football, historically we're 9th in the all time league and that is with Dundee Utd. below us although they've been a bigger team for at least 30 years and doesn't reflect the current strength of ICT or Ross County. We're gonna be bottom feeders in a 12 team top division more often than not although this season it's disappointing given the absentees but that's what league football is about - finding out who's the best/worst over 38 games, although I'd agree it's disappointing never to have even put in a close challenge for a Top Six finish during the past eight seasons. PS - In the Gretna season we finished above Kilmarnock. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/all-time-table/full ****************************** I guess we're gonna have to hope for a miracle comeback from Thommo or hitting it lucky in the January transfer window - as always COYS but be prepared for a rocky ride! Bud, I really don't get the relevance of Thommo, he is 36 and he will not hit ground running, also he has no supply, we managed to off load them, trust me I want him back but he will not make an immediate difference, the fact that marwood remains in team beggars belief, and please no one come and tell me his is a good player, he is not. And as for Goodwin, a thug, rip up his contract he makes us look stupid sticking by him, oh and whilst he is suspended again, he coaches. you could not make it up. But pleaser BOD somehow we have stayed up 9 seasons, give us a fighting chance, cause at this rate we wont get 18 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Bud the baker is correct that st Mirren are historically 9th and allowing for Dundee united then, then, really, we are 10th however... 3 of the big 5 are currently in the division below us so that puts us 7th in the current top flight and 3 of the 7 above us are Motherwell, Kilmarnock and Dundee... Clubs that we have historically competed with on an relatively even basis indeed, all 3 of these clubs have seen their recent records boosted by massive unsustainable spending over 2 decades approx and Dundee have only just been promoted and have 3 of our rejects as regulars in the first team while Kilmarnock finished below us last season and motherwell are sh1t this season this is our 9th consecutive season in the top flight. We have mo bank debt, top class training facilities and longwell's youth policy has been in force for over a decade if ever there was a season when we should be competing for the top 6 then its this one. but we aren't... cos we have a clueless manager, we've made shit signings and we have a dreadful youth system that fails to bring us real top class players (john mcginn excepted) who can make a real difference or transfer fees to invest in the squad That's why I said "this season it's disappointing given the absentees" Bud, I really don't get the relevance of Thommo, he is 36 and he will not hit ground running, also he has no supply, we managed to off load them, trust me I want him back but he will not make an immediate difference, the fact that marwood remains in team beggars belief, and please no one come and tell me his is a good player, he is not. And as for Goodwin, a thug, rip up his contract he makes us look stupid sticking by him, oh and whilst he is suspended again, he coaches. you could not make it up. But pleaser BOD somehow we have stayed up 9 seasons, give us a fighting chance, cause at this rate we wont get 18 points That's why I said "hope for a miracle recovery" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray street Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) I can remember shouting at John Coughlin in the dugout to ask him to resign as the club couldn't afford to sack him, we are not quite there yet with tommy, we're not far off. In any event I have only been to one game this season so have no right to shout at the manager, you guys that go week in week out are the sole arbiters so I bow to your conviction and knowledge it is fair and proper to let you decide. Edited November 13, 2014 by murray street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irvine_buddie Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Was playing footie at the feegie dome last night and went into the changing rooms in the away stand.. There are posters on the walls for the saints youth teams saying things along the lines of.. 'St Mirren players always impact positively on a game' 'St mirren players have a winning mentality' And my personal favourite.. 'St Mirren players play as part of a team and with a gameplan' Couldn't help but laugh, think they need to get these posters up in the first teams dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desert orchid Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Thommo is a huge loss. Still if I was sitting in the St Mirren board room I would be calling a meeting first thing Monday morning for a vote on Tommy Craig. At 1pm there would be a press conference thanking Tommy Craig for his services. 4pm Tommohawk would be appointed manager. Wake up big man your playing days are over if there is someone who can lift the team to give us a fighting chance it's you. If we go down we go down no one will point the finger at you on a side you have inherited What we would we be thanking him for? 1 point at home? A lucky spell of three games where we got 7 of our 8 points? Or, for signing a bunch of piss poor ( and I can't justify - forward/striker ) goal scoring machines? Agree with Thommo though, he couldn't be blamed if/when we drop. It's not just a management decision now, it's a business decision. If I was not delivering in my job I would be warned and then fired if things did not improve. Yes you would, but football managers get paid out for being failures. Why they don't operate under the same rules as any other employee is beyond me. The way i see it is. To get tommy out fans are going to have to do 1 of two things 1) mass boycott probably the Scottish cup game where it will hurt the board more as it will be all ticket. 2) a petition demanding tommy craigs resignation. If the majority of season ticket holders sign it then the board would have to take notice. One thing for sure is something has to change the football is dire and there is no fight in the team and thats the most worrying thing. Well, I for one won't be there. My brother who was a regular, no games this season. My friend, another lifelong bud has been to 2 games max. The 'loyal' ex-season ticket holders are drifting away and that cannot be good. I only go to get away from the Mrs (misses), a saturday at home begins to look more appealing the longer TC remains. Saturday was the first time I recall a chant telling our manager to GTF for quite a while. Can't remember similar for Danny or Gus, even when they were disliked by many, might be back to Coughlin for that. I remember a chant of "you don't know what you're doing" directed at GMcP. Can't remember who he took off (might have been perma-crock Dargo, but it wasn't a popular choice with the other managers in the Westbank. I think the sooner TC goes the better. I've never felt this strongly about previous managers, I did want Gus out (no regrets) and Danny not to be re-hired but not with the passion to get Tank Top Tommy out. Edited November 14, 2014 by desert orchid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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