Jack Ross Must Go.

[WeeBud]

5 minutes ago, class of 76-77 said:

You won't get that on this thread as there are many who never wanted JR, and will never accept him unless he turns around an almost impossible situation.

Even then I'm not too sure that some will accept him.

[faraway saint]

32 minutes ago, class of 76-77 said:

You won't get that on this thread as there are many who never wanted JR, and will never accept him unless he turns around an almost impossible situation.

It's "almost impossible" now, not so when he joined.

Slightly different IMO.

[TediousTom]

4 hours ago, faraway saint said:

I agree, imagine having fond memories for a man who kept us in this shit league. What is bizarre is how many supporters focused on him being an ex Rangers player rather than a St Mirren manager.

You make a fair point skidmark Faraway.

I hold Alex Rae with absolute contempt however.  A hopeless manager who systematically vandalised our squad.  The fact that he is also a mindless bigot just makes him that bit easier to dislike.  

 

 

Jack Ross has the unenviable job of repairing that massive damage with time quickly running out.  One must congratulate oor Jackie on his recent efforts as no-one with the intelligence above that of the common skidmark could accuse Mr Jackson Ross of a lack of effort.  This break from league business (East Fife and TNS in twa cups) may be a blessing in disguise as Jacko Ross fine tunes his players to the moderate standards that could bring about the improvement we not only desire but deserve.

 

Good luck Mr Ross, your endevours have not gone unappreciated.  

 

 

 

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, TediousTom said:

You make a fair point skidmark Faraway.

I hold Alex Rae with absolute contempt however.  A hopeless manager who systematically vandalised our squad.  The fact that he is also a mindless bigot just makes him that bit easier to dislike.  

 

 

Jack Ross has the unenviable job of repairing that massive damage with time quickly running out.  One must congratulate oor Jackie on his recent efforts as no-one with the intelligence above that of the common skidmark could accuse Mr Jackson Ross of a lack of effort.  This break from league business (East Fife and TNS in twa cups) may be a blessing in disguise as Jacko Ross fine tunes his players to the moderate standards that could bring about the improvement we not only desire but deserve.

 

Good luck Mr Ross, your endevours have not gone unappreciated.  

 

 

 

Thanks Tom, knew you were one of "them".

#bigotedtediousauldcnut

Edited February 10, 2017 by faraway saint

[Lord Pityme]

54 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

I'll try and answer the following questions.
 

 

To show they were loyal and would be loyal and supportive of any manager publicly.



I've answered that above.

So who are you actually accusing of the spin?



I've tried to see what the question is, but can only see you publicly questioning St Mirren's Chairmans honesty.

Do you believe that is fitting of a board member of SMISA?

 

I get that you just want to cause trouble, try and harm me in some way. Thats your prerogative, if it makes you happy?

but suggesting I have questioned anybody's honesty is poor form. Why dont you meet me and explain your accusations and reasoning, I am happy to listen.

[BaldyOzBud]

2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

They didnt have to say anything when he was gone, whats their motive to praise him when they have a new gaffer to please?

it is telling given the spin peddled to us of dressing room unrest that so many of them came out in the media after Rae had gone to praise him??? Someone is being economical with the whole truth, plain and sinple GS didnt like him, and he and the bod made an error in timing, choice and judgement that may see us relegated again?

 

18 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I get that you just want to cause trouble, try and harm me in some way. Thats your prerogative, if it makes you happy?

but suggesting I have questioned anybody's honesty is poor form. Why dont you meet me and explain your accusations and reasoning, I am happy to listen.

Surely you are aware that " Someone is being economical with the whole truth ,plain and sinple (sic) GS didn't like him," can only be construed as questioning his honesty.

[Bud the Baker]

I blame Gordon Scott primarily for our predicament - there is no way we would be in our current position if we had been competently managed throughout the course of the season. Like previous managers Rae should have been given till December to see if he could extricate himself and the team from the mess he'd gotten them into. The bungled attempt to install Billy Davies as manager left us rudderless for three weeks. Jack Ross was handed a poisoned chalice but I still feel that if we go down in tenth place his position is untenable.

As an aside how many of those calling for Ross to be retained for next season even if we go down were calling for Rae to be sacked - I'll bet there's a fair degree of overlap.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[ged62]

Easy
 
We are, last time I looked STILL a Championship team
We are Still in 2 other  cups
We have a win rate of 90% in Cups this season
The old BOD has gone, as has AR, TC and IM....
We have already beaten Dundee and Hibs away this season, so we can beat anyone in this league
We have far more options now after a good Jan window
Jack Ross is potentially a great manager, and was very highly rated by a successful Hearts team, the same Hearts that didn't rate Locke
We were below bottom before GS and JR came in
We have a BOD that obviously backs the team and the future
I am St Mirren till I die, if I wanted an easy life I could always kid on I support Celtic
If you want anymore happy to oblige or alternatively call the The Samaritans [emoji3]
 
 

You forgot to mention we are still bottom, we still haven't beat the 2 part time teams about us. We beat the teams you mentioned in the cup, league is more important. You need a reality check. But yeh like you SMTID but can't take away where we are right now. [emoji6]

[windae cleaner]

3 hours ago, class of 76-77 said:

You won't get that on this thread as there are many who never wanted JR, and will never accept him unless he turns around an almost impossible situation.

There's some who will never accept Jack Ross no matter what he does

Along with John Potter there's people who will never forgive how they acted after our semi final win against Hearts at Fir Park

He could keep us up and then win the Championship the following season wouldn't matter a jot to these people

[DougJamie]

20 minutes ago, ged62 said:

You forgot to mention we are still bottom, we still haven't beat the 2 part time teams about us. We beat the teams you mentioned in the cup, league is more important. You need a reality check. But yeh like you SMTID but can't take away where we are right now.

 Course its depressing

I know we are bottom, , cant even remember the last time we were 9th

Dumferline and Morton not so long ago were in League One and they couldn't beat lots of Part time teams.........

 

I am not on drugs ( however!!) but its still with us..... I expect to see a fight.... If I do then I am sure we will be ok. If I don't then thank god most players are on short term deals, and no more stupid pay offs

[Dibbles old paperboy]

9 hours ago, Edinbuddie said:

All this mess goes back to the old Bod and the decision to appoint Tommy Craig as manager. Successive managerial appointments since then haven't worked, and the club has been treading water for years. The two issues are probably related.

GS has come in and is trying to turn things round. It seems that he and Rae didn't share the same ideas, results and performances were poor, so he's appointed his first manager and has made it clear that JR agrees in his philosophy of how the club should develop and run.

No-one is faultless in all of this, but GS (and I'd argue JR) is/are less at fault than a lot of others when it comes to our current position.  

  

The old BoD and management team had us finishing 6th and 20 odd points ahead of the relegated team last season. This year with the new BoD sticking to the old BoD's budget and sacking the previous management team in September and appointing their own man in October* we can only but dream of a 6th place finish and ending the season 20 points clear of the drop.

Now, can we match Alloa's 21 points total from last season?

[northstbuddie]

22 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

I dont think he is bad, i think he is and has been out of his depth. Too many changes to line up and formation, when all we needed was to win ugly. I believe he thought it would be straightforward to get a decent season under his belt, and have a proper go next season. That to me shows his lack of experience, or even the mindset to learn from those who do/have done it dirty & ugly before.

maybe he will learn?

Even Jack Ross would not argue that results have been acceptable during his reign to date.

However there seems to be a fallacy being put out that Alec Rae's team had the ability to "win ugly" and that was what enabled us to avoid relegation last season.

The truth is that in most of the games I witnessed where we amassed a few points we were lucky to do so and it was not down to tactical nuance or stout defending.

In practice we were getting out-played at home even by the likes of Alloa and were experiencing a charmed life in many matches where we were picking up points. The team was so imbalanced and could not string more than three passes together and we had absolutely no midfield to speak of. At least now there are signs of improvement but no more than that at this stage.

The only so called experts who I have heard who do not rate Jack Ross as a coach are some of our own supporters. Everyone else seem to rate him highly.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

9 hours ago, Edinbuddie said:

.....and I'd argue that he also laid the foundation for a further relegation with his lazy summer recruitment. 

We were one of the last clubs to set a budget for the 2016/7 season due to the old board waiting until we were mathematically safe and the takeover bid. A look at the forum last summer would also show 90% of fans were very happy the squad had improved with Rae's summer signings. Dissenting voices complaining about the acquisition of Kyle Hutton, John Sutton et al were in a small minority, most boasted it was going to be a promotion charge ala Tom Hendrie.

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Even Jack Ross would not argue that results have been acceptable during his reign to date.

However there seems to be a fallacy being put out that Alec Rae's team had the ability to "win ugly" and that was what enabled us to avoid relegation last season.

The truth is that in most of the games I witnessed where we amassed a few points we were lucky to do so and it was not down to tactical nuance or stout defending.

In practice we were getting out-played at home even by the likes of Alloa and were experiencing a charmed life in many matches where we were picking up points. The team was so imbalanced and could not string more than three passes together and we had absolutely no midfield to speak of. At least now there are signs of improvement but no more than that at this stage.

The only so called experts who I have heard who do not rate Jack Ross as a coach are some of our own supporters. Everyone else seem to rate him highly.

Sorry, I don't buy this "we were lucky" shit.

It's always used by people who, come what may, won't recognise what was achieved.

Some say Danny Lennon was lucky to win the League Cup.

Wish JR would get "lucky" and quick.

Give me a break.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

I'm coming round to the view that if we get less than 25 points this season and get relegated by finishing 10th and well behind Ayr, Dumbarton and Raith I would be relaxed about thanking Jack Ross for his efforts and bringing someone else in. 25-30 points and relegated with 2-3 games to go it is in the balance. 

If we go down narrowly with a fight, i.e 1-2 points behind 9th or losing a play-off I'd keep Ross for next season.

8th and JR = the new Fergie (or Jim Clunie)!

Edited February 10, 2017 by Dibbles old paperboy

[pozbaird]

Alex Neil at Norwich was on a sticky wicket a few weeks ago, now he's up for manager of the month. Now, what has this got to do with anything I hear you ask? Well, sticking with a manager. I think Delia really wants to stick with Neil and ride out the peaks and troughs. I think we should stick with Jack Ross even if we go down. I am not a Ross fandan, I think our record under him is shite, but sometime, somewhere, somehow, we need to stick with someone. We simply cannot go on being utter shite, then bagging the manager, bring in another new guy and the pantomime starts once more. The remit of the latest incumbent in the hot seat to mop up the pool of shite left by the last guy, who struggled with the shite situation left by the last guy, who...

 

Ross should be afforded the chance to mop up his own shite. I quite like that. Allow a St Mirren manager to mop up his own shite, not the last guy's shite.... FFS! 

 

Edit: I have been drinking. I'm not proud of it, but fcuk it, it's Friday. Don't think I've had typos' or foregone punctuation... three cheers for me, and Tennents Black lager!

Edited February 10, 2017 by pozbaird

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

23 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Sorry, I don't buy this "we were lucky" shit.

It's always used by people who, come what may, won't recognise what was achieved.

Some say Danny Lennon was lucky to win the League Cup.

Wish JR would get "lucky" and quick.

Give me a break.

Yes go get a kit kat mate you need one. I take it since you have been in the land of sand you have watched all of Saints home games St Mirren TV and get to see some away games.Playing wise is night and day under Jack. Of course we would have liked more points. The stable fans see something being built it might take longer than we thought. Still firmly believe we will make the play offs and come through victorious. Only my opinion. 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

29 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Even Jack Ross would not argue that results have been acceptable during his reign to date.

However there seems to be a fallacy being put out that Alec Rae's team had the ability to "win ugly" and that was what enabled us to avoid relegation last season.

The truth is that in most of the games I witnessed where we amassed a few points we were lucky to do so and it was not down to tactical nuance or stout defending.

In practice we were getting out-played at home even by the likes of Alloa and were experiencing a charmed life in many matches where we were picking up points. The team was so imbalanced and could not string more than three passes together and we had absolutely no midfield to speak of. At least now there are signs of improvement but no more than that at this stage.

The only so called experts who I have heard who do not rate Jack Ross as a coach are some of our own supporters. Everyone else seem to rate him highly.

I often came away from games last season thinking we were playing as badly under Alex Rae as we had under Iain Murray but relieved at least results were ten times better. Particularly against the bottom half of the Championship teams results were good even if there were few games I can remember where we dominated a game or outclassed an opponent.

Head to heads against Alloa under Rae

19th December 2015 Alloa 0 - St Mirren 2; 30th January 2016 St Mirren 3 - Alloa 1; 26th March Alloa 0 - St Mirren 1.

Rae's record: 9 points out of 9, GD +5, 100%

Head to heads against Livingston under Rae

26th December 2015 St Mirren 1 - Livingston 4; 19th March 2016 Livingston 2 - St Mirren 3

Rae's record: 3 points out of 6, GD -2, - 50%

Head to heads against Morton under Rae

2nd January 2016 Morton 0 - St Mirren 1; 16th April 2016 St Mirren 3 - Morton 1

Rae's record : 6 points out of 6, GD +3, - 100%

Head to heads against Dumbarton under Rae

20th February 2016 St Mirren 1 - Dumbarton 0; 23rd April Dumbarton 2 - St Mirren 1

Rae's record: 3 points out of 6, GD 0, - 50%

Head to heads against Queen of the South under Rae

6th February 2016 St Mirren 1 - QOTS 0; 13th February QOTS 1 - St Mirren 0; 12th March St Mirren 2-1

Rae's record: 6 points out of 9, GD +1 - 66.7%

Rae's record in 12 league games against the teams round about us: 27 points out of a possible 36, GD +7. 75% of points available taken against the bottom half of the league. If it wasn't a knack or habit fostered by Rae which saw us grind out those kind of results so regularly last season I sure wish we could be even half as lucky this season!

 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

25 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Yes go get a kit kat mate you need one. I take it since you have been in the land of sand you have watched all of Saints home games St Mirren TV and get to see some away games.Playing wise is night and day under Jack. Of course we would have liked more points. The stable fans see something being built it might take longer than we thought. Still firmly believe we will make the play offs and come through victorious. Only my opinion. 

So the last really good league performance was when?

[Dibbles old paperboy]

1 minute ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

So the last really good league performance was when?

4th February: Dumbarton 2 - St Mirren 2? Nope!

28th January: St Mirren 1 - Falkirk 2? Nope!

14th January: Dunfermline 1 - St Mirren 1? Hmmm maybe... a decent game where we matched them for possession and shots on and off target.

7th January: St Mirren 0 - Queen of the South 3? Nope

31st December St Mirren 1- Morton 1? Nope!

24th December: Dundee United 2 - St Mirren 1 - the last time I can remember when most people came away talking about how well we had played in a league game... 6 or 7 weeks ago,

[northstbuddie]

16 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I often came away from games last season thinking we were playing as badly under Alex Rae as we had under Iain Murray but relieved at least results were ten times better. Particularly against the bottom half of the Championship teams results were good even if there were few games I can remember where we dominated a game or outclassed an opponent.

Head to heads against Alloa under Rae

19th December 2015 Alloa 0 - St Mirren 2; 30th January 2016 St Mirren 3 - Alloa 1; 26th March Alloa 0 - St Mirren 1.

Rae's record: 9 points out of 9, GD +5, 100%

Head to heads against Livingston under Rae

26th December 2015 St Mirren 1 - Livingston 4; 19th March 2016 Livingston 2 - St Mirren 3

Rae's record: 3 points out of 6, GD -2, - 50%

Head to heads against Morton under Rae

2nd January 2016 Morton 0 - St Mirren 1; 16th April 2016 St Mirren 3 - Morton 1

Rae's record : 6 points out of 6, GD +3, - 100%

Head to heads against Dumbarton under Rae

20th February 2016 St Mirren 1 - Dumbarton 0; 23rd April Dumbarton 2 - St Mirren 1

Rae's record: 3 points out of 6, GD 0, - 50%

Head to heads against Queen of the South under Rae

6th February 2016 St Mirren 1 - QOTS 0; 13th February QOTS 1 - St Mirren 0; 12th March St Mirren 2-1

Rae's record: 6 points out of 9, GD +1 - 66.7%

Rae's record in 12 league games against the teams round about us: 27 points out of a possible 36, GD +7. 75% of points available taken against the bottom half of the league. If it wasn't a knack or habit fostered by Rae which saw us grind out those kind of results so regularly last season I sure wish we could be even half as lucky this season!

 

Are you seriously suggesting that us grinding out results and escaping the noose last season was down to merit as against good fortune?

Good luck is not a "habit you foster" (even by Alec Rae) and is something which happens in football from time to time. Statistics and percentages can be meaningless barometers of how a team is playing especially when churned out in the minutest detail.

This season we have not generally had the rub of the green and while I am not using that as an excuse for Jack Ross or his team, I can only make meaningful comparisons of AR and JR's teams and their performances by what I have witnessed with my own eyes and not by interpreting selective statistics of games I had not attended personally. The sad fact is that we picked up a number of points last season that our play did not merit - which we can hardly claim this season!

All I can state quite categorically is that JR's team was by far and away the worst St Mirren team I have ever had the displeasure to watch in my lifetime and I was not born yesterday as you may know. JR has had a momentous battle in trying to turn things round and might still yet fail to keep us up. But that is just an indication of how far our standards had dropped under Rae (and previous managers).

[Dibbles old paperboy]

11 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

All I can state quite categorically is that JR's team was by far and away the worst St Mirren team I have ever had the displeasure to watch in my lifetime and I was not born yesterday as you may know. 

I wouldn't say Jack is that bad!

[Dibbles old paperboy]

13 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Are you seriously suggesting that us grinding out results and escaping the noose last season was down to merit as against good fortune?

Good luck is not a "habit you foster" (even by Alec Rae) and is something which happens in football from time to time. Statistics and percentages can be meaningless barometers of how a team is playing especially when churned out in the minutest detail.

This season we have not generally had the rub of the green and while I am not using that as an excuse for Jack Ross or his team, I can only make meaningful comparisons of AR and JR's teams and their performances by what I have witnessed with my own eyes and not by interpreting selective statistics of games I had not attended personally. The sad fact is that we picked up a number of points last season that our play did not merit - which we can hardly claim this season!

All I can state quite categorically is that JR's team was by far and away the worst St Mirren team I have ever had the displeasure to watch in my lifetime and I was not born yesterday as you may know. JR has had a momentous battle in trying to turn things round and might still yet fail to keep us up. But that is just an indication of how far our standards had dropped under Rae (and previous managers).

I wonder if Alloa felt they were unlucky to take 0 out of 9 points against an Alex Rae led St Mirren team last year? Sadly league status is determined on points attained rather than points deserved.

[TsuMirren]

So the last really good league performance was when?

The home game where Mallan scored right at the end after picking it up in his own half. Was that versus Kilmarnock?

[northstbuddie]

8 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I wouldn't say Jack is that bad!

Thanks for pointing out my 'typo'.