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billyg

St Mirren give Barnsley permission to speak to JR

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

That certainly was not my perception of the situation.  Jack started to change things from day 1.

Some seemed to think that he would take over and that the so-called 'new manager bounce' would somehow lift a team that had a totally unbalanced squad, poor attitude from loads of players, and absolutely no tactics except a long punt up to Sutton.

For the first few games Jack gave everyone a chance to show what they could do (he even recalled Ben Gordon to see if he could be an improvement in what we had) and tried to actually play a formation. He quickly realised that some were not good enough or up for the fight eg Hutton, Hardie, Walsh, Shankland and binned them. Certainly Hutton and Walsh never played for Jack after the Morton game on 1st Nov - only a couple of weeks after Jack took over. And Hardie and Shankland only made an odd appearance from the bench as there was little else and until he could punt them completely in January.

After 6 straight defeats (just following on from Rae's poor run), by the time of Jack's first League win on 6th Dec he had introduced Magennis to the team and had Morgan and McAllister playing regularly. And  these 6 defeats were against Hibs, Dundee Utd, Falkirk, Morton, Dunfermline and our bogey team of Dumbarton - no easy games in that lot.

We had not been winning but Jack dumped some of the rubbish, started playing a passing game and improved performances no end even if it took a few weeks to come together. But more importantly he had done two things - 1 was introduce skilful and hungry young players from our own ranks and not loanees and  - 2 identify who had to go. Both actions that had great significance in keeping us up. Remember that he had little to work with in Oct but done a really good job with what he had in my opinion until he could really clear the decks in January.

Of the 11 players he dumped only the two that were sold Naismith and McAllister are playing  in a team in a higher position than we are now in. That was how bad it was.

Excellent analysis!

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

That certainly was not my perception of the situation.  Jack started to change things from day 1.

Some seemed to think that he would take over and that the so-called 'new manager bounce' would somehow lift a team that had a totally unbalanced squad, poor attitude from loads of players, and absolutely no tactics except a long punt up to Sutton.

For the first few games Jack gave everyone a chance to show what they could do (he even recalled Ben Gordon to see if he could be an improvement in what we had) and tried to actually play a formation. He quickly realised that some were not good enough or up for the fight eg Hutton, Hardie, Walsh, Shankland and binned them. Certainly Hutton and Walsh never played for Jack after the Morton game on 1st Nov - only a couple of weeks after Jack took over. And Hardie and Shankland only made an odd appearance from the bench as there was little else and until he could punt them completely in January.

After 6 straight defeats (just following on from Rae's poor run), by the time of Jack's first League win on 6th Dec he had introduced Magennis to the team and had Morgan and McAllister playing regularly. And  these 6 defeats were against Hibs, Dundee Utd, Falkirk, Morton, Dunfermline and our bogey team of Dumbarton - no easy games in that lot.

We had not been winning but Jack dumped some of the rubbish, started playing a passing game and improved performances no end even if it took a few weeks to come together. But more importantly he had done two things - 1 was introduce skilful and hungry young players from our own ranks and not loanees and  - 2 identify who had to go. Both actions that had great significance in keeping us up. Remember that he had little to work with in Oct but done a really good job with what he had in my opinion until he could really clear the decks in January.

Of the 11 players he dumped only the two that were sold Naismith and McAllister are playing  in a team in a higher position than we are now in. That was how bad it was.

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

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2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

The last time I looked Livi were below us in this League.  Ayr are in a League below us with Shankland having been binned by another Championship team and Walsh and Hutton are in a team below us that will be in a relegation play-off. (Carswell had already left in the summer having been dumped by Rae.) As I said - none of these players went on to greater things. Maybe getting kicked out by us bucked up a few ideas but it hasn't made them playing at a higher level. In fact two that you mentioned are now part-time. I do not think it is me that is being selective LPM.

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9 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

Walsh, Hutton and Carswell are doing so very well?  Last time I looked at the table Dumbarton were second bottom and have scored only 15 in 22.  Walsh wasn’t that bad but the other two were chancers.  Also Carswell was released by Rae and never played under Ross.

I’m just glad we showed patience and didn’t submit to the knee jerking from some of our fans.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

 Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

?

TBF 99% of our support , never mind JR , knew this lot were dumplings. Not one of them was fit to wear the stripes

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23 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

Ayr United are now 8 points behind Raith and no longer table toppers and appear headed for the play offs, perhaps against that star studded Dumbarton line up.

No doubting Hardie’s but it is his attitude that appears to be the problem and Ross did not have the time to work on it as he needed guys to do it for him right there and then.

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Aye.  Our own, far younger, players of Magennis, Morgan, McAllister and Mallan all started to improve under Ross by being given belief and game time. The loanees did not look like they gave a f**k.

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2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Tony said:

Quote


After a difficult start, St Mirren eventually emerged from the relegation places and are now odds-on to return to the Premiership.

 

 

Fuxake Tony get on message - there was never any doubt amongst true fans!

Image result for hermit life of brianKILL THE UNBELIEVERS!

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48 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

Honest to God, we really have some negs on here don't we.......................

FKING 14 pts clear, and a debate on Jacks errors, well it took Fergie 3 years to click at United, Managers don't get it right on results from day one if the actual machine is broken

There is more to being a manager than picking 11 men, giving them tactics and saying off u go...... Ross inherited a club that failed. Money, infrastructure, players, coaching even facilities were rank....................

the guy also did well at Alloa and maybe if he had been given more time he could have them challenging to get back into Championship. Lets not forget it was a shock Brechin beat them.........................

Ayr showed their true level on Sat, IF they come up THEY will go straight back down.........................

LPM you spend so much time on here talking down the team you allegedly support

Change the Record- You're Boring  

 

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Worst case scenario. Jack does a runner to Barnsley faster than Alex Rae can plummet saints to the bottom of the league.   Argh!!!   what about all the Jack Ross Cardigans we've bought. They'll be naff now.

In Jack we trust. I think the cardigan wearing phase will last till next season at least

 

Edited by East Lothian Saint
Changing my Cardigan

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59 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a real selective recollection Sonny, that run of defeats under Ross was dire, and despite what some believe if he hadnt arrested it the pressure on the board to do something would have seen him replaced. Also the facts surrounding players who moved on, you say two are at a higher level, is Hardie not just been loaned from Rangers to Livi, and scoring? is Shankland not scoring for fun at table toppers Ayr, have Walsh, Hutton and Carswell not blossomed in this league?

yes all of them for one reason or another didnt click with us. But they are doing so very well for other managers, why is that?

Hardie, Shankland and Walsh clearly never had the attitude for a relegation battle. A clearout was necessary and  clearing the decks of loan players proved to work. 

Hardie - Left us and got relegated with Raith. Followed by once again being loaned out this season to another team below us. From what I believe, sees himself as a big time charlie.

Shankland - Done heehaw at Morton, dumped by Aberdeen followed by failed trials at clubs playing championship level. He has had to step backwards to get his career back on track. Do not doubt there is a player in there, though attitude is a big problem hence his step backwards.

Walsh - A bit unfortunate, though we don't see what goes on behind the scenes, so possibly replaced for reasons we will never know. Released almost immediately by The Rangers after we sent him back.

Carswell - Honking. Did very little in a Saints jersey, left for Iceland and now playing part-time.

Hutton - Again honking, loaned out to Airdrie and from one of their supporters i know, asked if we could take him back as he was not cutting it at their level either. Now playing part-time.

 

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11 minutes ago, Drew said:

It seems they're making it up as they go along, but I'm happy to see other names in the frame.

HITC making stuff up? Never!

I'd trust flareybob over that site.

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Aye.  .....................The loanees did not look like they gave a f**k.


They didn’t and that’s the growing problem.

Unless you can get a manager that can motivate and/or a player that wants to prove a point and commit, then you Are onto plums.

The more transient that players in their career become the harder it is to build a unit and get belief instilled. It’s so short term now and strangely enough I am speculating on the future St mirren manager and the next player set, rather than embracing the great season we are having. It’s so different nowadays.

At least we’re not supporting a club that is paying wages like that of Pogba, Martial, Deli Ali , Ozil etc dahn south. That really is taking the utter piss. How do you genuinely motivate multi millionaires ?? They by and large just take the huff if they get verbals.

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35 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said:

Hardie, Shankland and Walsh clearly never had the attitude for a relegation battle. A clearout was necessary and  clearing the decks of loan players proved to work. 

Hardie - Left us and got relegated with Raith. Followed by once again being loaned out this season to another team below us. From what I believe, sees himself as a big time charlie.

Shankland - Done heehaw at Morton, dumped by Aberdeen followed by failed trials at clubs playing championship level. He has had to step backwards to get his career back on track. Do not doubt there is a player in there, though attitude is a big problem hence his step backwards.

Walsh - A bit unfortunate, though we don't see what goes on behind the scenes, so possibly replaced for reasons we will never know. Released almost immediately by The Rangers after we sent him back.

Carswell - Honking. Did very little in a Saints jersey, left for Iceland and now playing part-time.

Hutton - Again honking, loaned out to Airdrie and from one of their supporters i know, asked if we could take him back as he was not cutting it at their level either. Now playing part-time.

 

LOY "thought" he would move onto better things

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Liam Smith is a player who should be held up as an example to other youngsters when it comes to making full use of  loan spell.

Great player with an excellent attitude.

 

Anyway, 15 minutes have passed.... Who is the current front runner for the Barnsley job?

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14 minutes ago, Drew said:

 

 

Anyway, 15 minutes have passed.... Who is the current front runner for the Barnsley job?

They have had over 60 applicants , and have shortlisted to 59- Dannys CV had to many errors on it

Next Update  15.35

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Whats funny is everyone agreeing with me that Hardie, Hutton, Walsh, Shankland etc didnt click with us, but refusing to anknowledge they have gone on to play either in this league or above, or indeed playing well at the top end of league one.

but everyone to a man dodging the fact ( Re. sonny's post) that we were potentially a goal and a point away from the playoffs in Ross's first season. With that god awful, wading into the stands run of defeats. Whats wrong with simply acknowledging that? It actually makes the turnaround under Ross look more impressive if the fans follow the managers example of learning from his mistakes.... 

i love where we are now, the type of football we are playing, and the fact we will win this league and move upwards, but airbrushing out the things that almost cost us dearly is a fools game. You learn from your mistakes, you dont ignore them and risk repeating them.

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