Speculation Thread

[Sweeper07 4,047]

16 hours ago, madball said:

I would suspect that we are looking at 4-5 starters and the balance in squad players. If you look at who actually left there are only a couple of players that made a real contribution to the squad over the season in that lot from a permanent point of view. Obviously Morgan will be the big miss from a loan signing, but would like to think that there are clubs who will look at the development of players under Jack who will think that we are a good place to send quality youngsters to develop.

Seriously 4 or 5 starters - we are currently left with 15 senior players max... if a number of them sign new contracts and none leave for other reasons e.g. McShane might go for more games if someone came in for him; Stewart and Kirkpatrick might end up back at Alloa - even these 3 would take us down to 12 players - another 12 would need to be signed...to balance/make up a squad.

If we sign minimum 10 players to get the squad to the likely size required - why would we only sign 4 or 5 who will be starters? (The rest just making up the numbers, just in case)

Even if you mean 1st choice players - with injuries, suspensions etc we will still need more than 5 new quality guys.

2 RB, 1 LB, 1CB,  at least 3 midfielders, 1 or 2 Strikers, and most likely another GK

We want guys who can challenge for places and improve the team right? (Guys who don't lack the physicality or nuse required). Some might be on loan, but they need to be good enough or fab.

[linwood buddie 3,148]

37 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

Seriously 4 or 5 starters - we are currently left with 15 senior players max... if a number of them sign new contracts and none leave for other reasons e.g. McShane might go for more games if someone came in for him; Stewart and Kirkpatrick might end up back at Alloa - even these 3 would take us down to 12 players - another 12 would need to be signed...to balance/make up a squad.

If we sign minimum 10 players to get the squad to the likely size required - why would we only sign 4 or 5 who will be starters? (The rest just making up the numbers, just in case)

Even if you mean 1st choice players - with injuries, suspensions etc we will still need more than 5 new quality guys.

2 RB, 1 LB, 1CB,  at least 3 midfielders, 1 or 2 Strikers, and most likely another GK

We want guys who can challenge for places and improve the team right? (Guys who don't lack the physicality or nuse required). Some might be on loan, but they need to be good enough or fab.

We will need to sign the "Hairy ersed hammer throwing 6 ft+ fermers" that ICT had for years.

[saintargyll 2,314]

O'Halleron would be a good addition 

[Magic Monkey 4,636]

59 minutes ago, saintargyll said:

O'Halleron would be a good addition 

Has he been released?

[saintargyll 2,314]

Not yet but I imagine he will be

[Isle Of Bute Saint 9,955]

15 minutes ago, saintargyll said:

Not yet but I imagine he will be

On 1 February 2016, after much speculation, O'Halloran signed a four and a half-year deal  ?

[billyg 5,582]

4 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

On 1 February 2016, after much speculation, O'Halloran signed a four and a half-year deal  ?

They never learn , do they ? O'Halloran will be sitting pretty until they pay him off , yet , they've just handed a midfielder plodder , who is 30 this year , a similar 4 year deal.

[Magic Monkey 4,636]

1 minute ago, billyg said:

They never learn , do they ? O'Halloran will be sitting pretty until they pay him off , yet , they've just handed a midfielder plodder , who is 30 this year , a similar 4 year deal.

It's absolutely mental. 

[turrabuddie 1,465]

I see Charlie Adam hasn't ruled out a return to Ibrox. Why not GHR ? He did a turn for us on loan a number of years ago.
Surely he's made enough money already ....

[zico 718]

4 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

The line I have highlighted is yours - I never said that - I said we are letting 11 Seniors go,- they are seniors because the were listed on the website as 1st Team Squad not youth etc.

2 of those 'seniors', Duffy & Todd have already been replaced by Flynn & Mullen, hence why they were allowed to leave on loan.

Whyte & Flanagan were 'promoted' from the U20s and will be replaced by current U20s, an example being Erhahon.

We also have Kirkpatrick & Stewart (striker) coming back from loan.

That leaves a net position of 5 seniors to replace at the moment.

 

[madball 496]

2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

Seriously 4 or 5 starters - we are currently left with 15 senior players max... if a number of them sign new contracts and none leave for other reasons e.g. McShane might go for more games if someone came in for him; Stewart and Kirkpatrick might end up back at Alloa - even these 3 would take us down to 12 players - another 12 would need to be signed...to balance/make up a squad.

If we sign minimum 10 players to get the squad to the likely size required - why would we only sign 4 or 5 who will be starters? (The rest just making up the numbers, just in case)

Even if you mean 1st choice players - with injuries, suspensions etc we will still need more than 5 new quality guys.

2 RB, 1 LB, 1CB,  at least 3 midfielders, 1 or 2 Strikers, and most likely another GK

We want guys who can challenge for places and improve the team right? (Guys who don't lack the physicality or nuse required). Some might be on loan, but they need to be good enough or fab.

I'm saying you do need 9 in at least, but probably 5 to fill gaps left by leaving players or improve team and the rest to improve squad depth. If you look at the squad that is left and first team players stay (Davis and Reilly), and let's assume Jack sticks with a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 what we have at the moment is the following

Samson

No RB 2 CH (2 from Baird, McKenzie, Davis) Eckersley

Flynn Magennis McGinn No LM

C Smith

1 from Mullen/Reilly

 

 

Plus Stewart (GK), McShane (MF), Hippolyte (MF/AM), Kirkpatrick (MF), Stewart (ST)

So we would need 1 RB and 1 LM straight away. I would say probably 1 CH to partner with Davis, 1 LB to challenge Eckersley, and 1 CF to give different options. beyond replacing or deposing players above we need a 2nd right fullback (preferably one who could cover either side), 1 backup Keeper to challenge Samson, 1 CM to challenge McGinn/Magennis, and probably 1 winger to deputise for Flynn.

If more players move out I would want to replace them also so the 9 could become more.

[JJ McG 4,224]

1 hour ago, turrabuddie said:

I see Charlie Adam hasn't ruled out a return to Ibrox. Why not GHR ? He did a turn for us on loan a number of years ago.
Surely he's made enough money already ....

Honest to Christ 

[billyg 5,582]

QOS fan on the pie and bovril site suggesting that Kevin Holt the Dundee left back has signed a PCA with Saints.

Had a look on P&b but couldn't see it. It would make sense , first team regular at Dens , big and physical . and played for JF at QOS .

[Sweeper07 4,047]

3 hours ago, zico said:

2 of those 'seniors', Duffy & Todd have already been replaced by Flynn & Mullen, hence why they were allowed to leave on loan.

Whyte & Flanagan were 'promoted' from the U20s and will be replaced by current U20s, an example being Erhahon.

We also have Kirkpatrick & Stewart (striker) coming back from loan.

That leaves a net position of 5 seniors to replace at the moment.

 

I hear what you are saying - Flynn and Mullen have replaced Duffy & Todd - but are they our 1st choice in the Premiership? (Neither of us knows yet and who will be their challengers for the 1st team jerseys or whether they might play 2nd fiddle? There has to be at least some level of challenge for them and cover for injuries etc. ?)

Not sure that Erhahon is ready for the step up yet - he may well get promoted to the 1st team - but every chance he will be out on loan next season to gain more 1st team experience at a lower level - we can wait and see on that) Given that Whyte and Flannigan did not cut the step up in the Championship - it must be clear that next season the step will be even more difficult. (Not saying it is impossible, just trying to be realistic)

I suspect Kirkpatrick and Stewart will be back out on loan - probably with Alloa again. I really doubt Kirkpatrick is going to be in the team much in the top league. Stewart too unlikely to get a lot of match time if he is with us - though, I think he has much more potential...

So I think we will sign 10 senior players or more to have a more robust 1st squad - I think Jack will learn from the past 18 months and sign more players who are an improvement to what we have, so it might be that there is a real challenge for everyone to fight for a 1st team jerseys...

Jacks a winner, and that what winners do... of course there will be a few positions that he might think are a lower priority to climb above the guys holding the jersey for now, but we will see (summer and January - continuous improvement - just as has been the case over the last 18 months - can't be too sentimental - we want to be as good as we can reasonably be)

 

Point is we had 28 listed as the 1st team squad until the announcement of who was leaving - we will have at least 24 in the squad for the Premiership - there are a number of spaces to fill, and who would prefer to choose 2nd choice guys rather than better players than we already have? It is a no brainer for me - budget constraints etc. excepting.

[zico 718]

I hear what you are saying - Flynn and Mullen have replaced Duffy & Todd - but are they our 1st choice in the Premiership? (Neither of us knows yet and who will be their challengers for the 1st team jerseys or whether they might play 2nd fiddle? There has to be at least some level of challenge for them and cover for injuries etc. ?)

I’d say that Flynn will be first choice but regardless, both will be more involved than Duffy or Todd, who you listed!

Not sure that Erhahon is ready for the step up yet - he may well get promoted to the 1st team - but every chance he will be out on loan next season to gain more 1st team experience at a lower level - we can wait and see on that) Given that Whyte and Flannigan did not cut the step up in the Championship - it must be clear that next season the step will be even more difficult. (Not saying it is impossible, just trying to be realistic)

My point is that the Whyte and Flanagan, the 2 guys you listed, were ‘seniors’ who were called up from the u20s, never played and went out on loan. I would imagine that they might be replaced by another couple of under 20s who will also go on loan?

Like Erhahon?

I also think the management team have higher hopes for Erhahon than Whyte or Flanagan!

[FTOF 10,888]

3 hours ago, billyg said:

 

 

Had a look on P&b but couldn't see it. It would make sense , first team regular at Dens , big and physical . and played for JF at QOS .

 

I'm not sure it's that reliable, but he would be a very decent signing.

 

[John Gotti 668]

7 hours ago, turrabuddie said:

I see Charlie Adam hasn't ruled out a return to Ibrox. Why not GHR ? He did a turn for us on loan a number of years ago.
Surely he's made enough money already ....

He's a Dundee supporter, so if he decides to do charity work it'll be at Dens 

[Sweeper07 4,047]

1 hour ago, zico said:

 

I’d say that Flynn will be first choice but regardless, both will be more involved than Duffy or Todd, who you listed!



My point is that the Whyte and Flanagan, the 2 guys you listed, were ‘seniors’ who were called up from the u20s, never played and went out on loan. I would imagine that they might be replaced by another couple of under 20s who will also go on loan?

Like Erhahon?

I also think the management team have higher hopes for Erhahon than Whyte or Flanagan!

 

 

Firstly, when you say I listed them - it was a direct cut from the official website, which called them senior players and they had their photo's in the section called the 1st team.

So they were bought in as squad players or promoted from the U20's into the 1st team squad - which is clearly defined as the senior squad...  Of course later in the season some of them went out on loan.. Other Senior players like Hill and Donati never played until the league was won either - then managed 2 games when it did not matter (maybe Hill got 3 games). Duffy when he came to us was not good enough and Todd was unlucky injury wise right?

I agree that Flynn will most likely be a first team player regularly and probably a 1st 11 choice most weeks - but neither of us know that for sure - he may get injured or Jack might pick up someone else who is good and can play that position, who gets a chance and takes it... then Flynn could become a sub/back-up.

As you say, I suspect that the management opinion of Erhahon is higher than of Whyte/Flanagan, but he will probably go out on loan for more games at a decent level to bring him on. So whether he is promoted to the 1st team squad is not overly significant (other than we are keeping Him and he is training with us while we aim for him to develop further - is he likely to feature in the Premiership next season - I don't think so). The point is we need a squad of at least 24 players for the Premiership - not counting guys we send out on load.. 

Surely Jack wants to bring in guys who can challenge those who were clearly 1st choice previously either immediately or in the longer term? bringing in 2nd choice guys wont make us a much better team... (I am not saying he will bring in a whole team who are better that those we currently have - but as many as is possible - bigger, stronger, better to improve the team and our chances next season...

[Ethan 958]

We still have players coming to the end of their contracts for example Davis and Reilly. We could in fact see virtually a whole new side bar a couple come the start of the new season.  Will ve interesting to see the calibre of player we bring in.

[St.Ricky 8,253]

49 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

Firstly, when you say I listed them - it was a direct cut from the official website, which called them senior players and they had their photo's in the section called the 1st team.

So they were bought in as squad players or promoted from the U20's into the 1st team squad - which is clearly defined as the senior squad...  Of course later in the season some of them went out on loan.. Other Senior players like Hill and Donati never played until the league was won either - then managed 2 games when it did not matter (maybe Hill got 3 games). Duffy when he came to us was not good enough and Todd was unlucky injury wise right?

I agree that Flynn will most likely be a first team player regularly and probably a 1st 11 choice most weeks - but neither of us know that for sure - he may get injured or Jack might pick up someone else who is good and can play that position, who gets a chance and takes it... then Flynn could become a sub/back-up.

As you say, I suspect that the management opinion of Erhahon is higher than of Whyte/Flanagan, but he will probably go out on loan for more games at a decent level to bring him on. So whether he is promoted to the 1st team squad is not overly significant (other than we are keeping Him and he is training with us while we aim for him to develop further - is he likely to feature in the Premiership next season - I don't think so). The point is we need a squad of at least 24 players for the Premiership - not counting guys we send out on load.. 

Surely Jack wants to bring in guys who can challenge those who were clearly 1st choice previously either immediately or in the longer term? bringing in 2nd choice guys wont make us a much better team... (I am not saying he will bring in a whole team who are better that those we currently have - but as many as is possible - bigger, stronger, better to improve the team and our chances next season...

Maybe nothing but the young lad has been travelling to away games with the first team squad this season.  If I am right e.g. he was at Brechin and Inverness.

[Cornwall_Saint 4,024]

On 30/04/2018 at 3:47 PM, Eric Arthur Blair said:

To those advocating signing the likes of O'Ware and or Lamie from Morton...absolutely not.

We need to be doing more along the lines of what Motherwell have done, signing guys like Hartley and Kipre or even following our own example and signing someone like Davis.

As I've said elsewhere, if we ARE going to sign a Championship defender it should be Halkett from Livingston who is OOC at the end of May and was one of the best CDs in the league.

This.

Davis, McGinn and Flynn were three good signings from English L1 and L2 level and there will be many more players in those two leagues capable of doing a job for us. A chunk of L1 players may be out of our reach regarding wages but I'd imagine we could compete with L2 clubs and perhaps lower half L1 clubs for players. Scottish Championship players should be taken with warning as the step up is obviously not easy. We seen similar with Kirkpatrick (who smashed in 17 goals last season for Alloa before joining us) and the Stewart's opportunities were limited too in regards to the step up from L1 to Championship.

[class of 76-77 2,830]

7 hours ago, billyg said:

 

Had a look on P&b but couldn't see it. It would make sense , first team regular at Dens , big and physical . and played for JF at QOS .

 

It was a post on the QOS transfer thread where someone asked where Holt was going after his contract at dens expired, the reply was a PCA with Saints.

[billyg 5,582]

Mr O'Ware in the papers this morning professing his undying love for St Mirren , Jack Ross and our support ????

 

[shull 30,477]

17 minutes ago, billyg said:

Mr O'Ware in the papers this morning professing his undying love for St Mirren , Jack Ross and our support 

 

All are class acts.

Don't blame him.

[paul torfason 445]

and allegedly hearts looking at shankland in todays papers