Sweeper07 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Upward progress, with calmness and patience and dry breeks from supporters. Well from last year we have fallen a long long way - so far I don't see much progress in terms of results - and it is a results driven business. We canny beat Alloa, Dumbarton, Livingstone and the likes have beaten us. I don't have wet breeks, just some ambition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well from last year we have fallen a long long way - so far I don't see much progress in terms of results - and it is a results driven business. We canny beat Alloa, Dumbarton, Livingstone and the likes have beaten us. I don't have wet breeks, just some ambition! Did we not beat them about 10 days ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Did we not beat them about 10 days ago? No, we beat Livingston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Well from last year we have fallen a long long way - so far I don't see much progress in terms of results - and it is a results driven business. We canny beat Alloa, Dumbarton, Livingstone and the likes have beaten us. I don't have wet breeks, just some ambition! You don't need to have ambition. Leave that to the Players & Manager. Just stop being angry over a Sport and support your Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) To be fair I don't think he is. More likely comparing the situation of a manager struggling to find his feet who fans wanted sacked but who turned it around. Should St Mirren become a sacking club the you'll never attract decent managers. You wanted Stephen Aitken as boss but would he leave a well paid job with good pension entitlement to come here and be subjected to fans wanting him sacked after a couple of bad results? Murray did!The main issue though is the likes of Aitken have had managerial success at a lower level, Murray certainly hasn't, and is using ST Mirren to make all his mistakes at, i bet he didn't say that at his interview.... Then again knowing our board..? Edited October 28, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Murray did! The main issue though is the likes of Aitken have had managerial success at a lower level, Murray certainly hasn't, and is using ST Mirren to make all his mistakes at, i bet he didn't say that at his interview.... Then again knowing our board..? I'm certain you are a top bloke after all you are a Saints fan. Why so many negative posts though have a moan by all means but every single post on Saints. Maybe you hate your job and generally feel down in the dumps. Murray has not impressed (any) of us so far , most are willing to see if he can turn the corner. Come start the Christmas spirit early even constructive criticism would be an improvement bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 One aspect of improvement I've seen is in our defence. 3 goals conceded in our last 5 games, compared with 9 in the previous 5. The last 5 games have included games against Hibs and Rangers. If Murray has told the full backs to hang back, then it's clearly tightening things up. The next step is to start scoring more. We do seem to be settling down after a torrid start to the season, and should be in much better shape to take on Falkirk, Hibs and Raith in our next three games. I expect all to be tight, difficult games, but showing the commitment and pressing the way we did against Rangers, we can do well in these. A bit of positivity isn't hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) I appreciate the sentiment that we should be more positive. Although, the post above was directed at Lord pityme, I too have been negative often on this website. I love my job, have a great wife and fine kids (Though I have teenagers, they aint too bad either). I have played football professionally - and I know that at different clubs, the expectations are very different - the ones who do well ALWAYS have much higher expectations. (I have been with Jim Jeffries when his team dropped 2 points against a team 2 places below them in the league. It was like manic depression - winning, 3 points has to have that level of importance) So I do not think it is reasonable for us to be where we are at the moment, our win record is no where near good enough and we continue to be low scorers, which makes winning a whole lot more difficult. (How many goals to games have any in our team for this season currently got - it is even worse if you discount the di*ddy cup)?) That is what brought us down and what will keep us down. (Though of course defence etc. matters too.) I have been there when St Mirren lifted cups like the Scottish etc. I have watched us sink to this depth, while others have risen higher over the same timeframe. So as a Saints fan I want us to do our best and it has been a very very long time since we have been as poor as this. Current prospects are not greatly hopeful either? Another year minimum at this level. (Even if we miraculously reached the play offs - we would get annihilated as Gers did last year) I hope that by keeping up the pressure, fans, management and directors will agree that this is not good enough, and put the necessary fixes in place. I hope that all my posts are constructive - I am a fan, but I have to be a realist and the continual budget cuts, selling of the best players, cheap options for managers like Craig, Teal etc. have not proved cheap in the long run or much good in any way. e.g. Had directors got their way and dumped Goodwin, we would be so much poorer than we are at the moment. (He is obviously on better money, so the attempt to off-load him is their norm) As a manager of a big organisation, I know what it takes juggling so many things. But at Saints not much is being done nearly well enough. Positives - Webster; Goodwin getting back into the team and making it hard for him not to be the 1st name on the team sheets every week. Other younger players arriving and improving. But we need to improve in every department or we will lose fans paying through the turnstiles and that won't help in any way. Future Hope - Constructive discontent (At all levels, fans, manager, Board etc.), because that is what drives better decision making, and drives continuous improvements, and delivers a much more successful Club. To suggest this is not realistic is foolish - it works in every industry and organisation that manages with excellence. We must aim for the short term - to get back into the top league and be able to live there (Quality of team/manager/directors wise and financially). Then longer term we must aim for top 6 minimum, winning cups, and having regular jaunts into Europe. Anyone think this is too ambitious? Edited October 28, 2015 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's nice of him to come out and say he made mistakes. It would obviously be better for all concerned if he hadn't made them in the first place, or at least not made as many. Lest we forget that Murray has managed more games in this league than any other manager currently managing in the Championship. Perhaps with the exception of Duffy, but that was many years ago. One of Murray's main selling points was how well he knew the division. He certainly knew it far better than the likes of McKinnon, but he's had a far worse start. His pleas of ignorance and naivety are a bit hard to swallow, he had 2 and a half seasons managing in this league before he joined us. As I've said many times before, how a manager comes across in the press really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is results, and Murray needs them quick. If we are going to make a playoff challenge we need to be beating Raith and Falkirk, especially since both of them have already won in Paisley this season. If we go through our next 3 games winless it's going to be really hard for anyone to make a case for him to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't think anyone would suggest you are being too ambitious. We need ambition and aspiration in everything on do with the club. I don't see many on here posting to the effect that we're doing okay, or that our start to the season was remotely acceptable. Similarly, no-one was happy for the club to be relegated. Sadly, it is what it is. As Saints supporters, we tend to live more in hope than in expectation, but I don't think we are easily pleased. Murray's interview with Spiers suggests that the penny has dropped for him in that respect. Hopefully (see.... hope gain!), things will continue to pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Murray compared to Fergie now.... FFS.... Just FFS.... To be fair I don't think he is. More likely comparing the situation of a manager struggling to find his feet who fans wanted sacked but who turned it around. Should St Mirren become a sacking club the you'll never attract decent managers. You wanted Stephen Aitken as boss but would he leave a well paid job with good pension entitlement to come here and be subjected to fans wanting him sacked after a couple of bad results? Was going to reply to you LordPityme but I think Scott has covered it. I'm not comparing Murray to SAF - far from it - just making the point that you don't sack a new manager after a few games - before he has a chance to learn about the club, how it operates and how to get the best out of it. Many managers have started poorly and turned it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 To be fair I don't think he is. More likely comparing the situation of a manager struggling to find his feet who fans wanted sacked but who turned it around. Should St Mirren become a sacking club the you'll never attract decent managers. You wanted Stephen Aitken as boss but would he leave a well paid job with good pension entitlement to come here and be subjected to fans wanting him sacked after a couple of bad results? I don't recall a campaign to sack fergie. Even if it took a while for things to improve, we saw the signs and felt the buzz almost immediately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the proof will be in the pudding as regards Murray's recent thoughts on his time as manager so far. Talk is cheap, he has to start delivering and start now.... The honeymoon period is well and truly dead...we must start moving up the table and winning the next 2 games would go some way to proving we are on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr rotund Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the proof will be in the pudding as regards Murray's recent thoughts on his time as manager so far. Talk is cheap, he has to start delivering and start now.... The honeymoon period is well and truly dead...we must start moving up the table and winning the next 2 games would go some way to proving we are on the right track. I agree with the fact that we must start winning but i can see us moving up the table to the top 4 in the next quarter. If we're going to have a poor period in the season then it's better it was at the start. I think that there are signs in recent weeks that we are gelling more as a team now and hopefully the positive results will follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't recall a campaign to sack fergie. Even if it took a while for things to improve, we saw the signs and felt the buzz almost immediately I was talking about his early time at Man United rather than at St Mirren in that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the proof will be in the pudding as regards Murray's recent thoughts on his time as manager so far. Talk is cheap, he has to start delivering and start now.... The honeymoon period is well and truly dead...we must start moving up the table and winning the next 2 games would go some way to proving we are on the right track. true-all is forgiven if he can take Sunday's performance into a series of wins. Opponents will approach us differently if they see us as a winning side, rather than as the soft touch that we have been in so many games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Murray did! The main issue though is the likes of Aitken have had managerial success at a lower level, Murray certainly hasn't, and is using ST Mirren to make all his mistakes at, i bet he didn't say that at his interview.... Then again knowing our board..? I wasn't passing judgment on Aitken's success or otherwise as a manager. The point I was trying to get across is that when you have a reputation as a sacking club, which is what some would like us to be, then the chances of attracting quality managers is far lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Was going to reply to you LordPityme but I think Scott has covered it. I'm not comparing Murray to SAF - far from it - just making the point that you don't sack a new manager after a few games - before he has a chance to learn about the club, how it operates and how to get the best out of it. Many managers have started poorly and turned it around. Jim McIntyre at RC was rank for longer than we would have tolerated... Gary Locke at Killie too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't recall a campaign to sack fergie. Even if it took a while for things to improve, we saw the signs and felt the buzz almost immediately Man United very nearly sacked him.. Sometimes loyalty pays off. (sometimes it doesn't) Murray is a young manager. He needs to learn and learn fast. I reckon we should give him at least 2 or 3 seasons before we look at other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Man United very nearly sacked him.. Sometimes loyalty pays off. (sometimes it doesn't) Murray is a young manager. He needs to learn and learn fast. I reckon we should give him at least 2 or 3 seasons before we look at other options. 2 or 3 seasons?! Goodness me you are generous. So if we finished 7th this season, and next season, you'd happily employ him for a 3rd? Murray said himself when he was appointed he thought he'd be sacked if the club was around the bottom of the table after 20 odd games. I agree with him. He's had 11 and we're around the bottom of the table, by his own barometer he has 9 to save his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I honestly can't see him being sacked this season. We are already 11 points off a play off spot and that is a big gap so it looks like a season of consolidation and keeping out of bother at the wrong end. If we were in real relegation danger come Jan / Feb then maybe but I don't think it will come to that. Not saying it's the right decision but its beginning to look that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I honestly can't see him being sacked this season. We are already 11 points off a play off spot and that is a big gap so it looks like a season of consolidation and keeping out of bother at the wrong end. If we were in real relegation danger come Jan / Feb then maybe but I don't think it will come to that. Not saying it's the right decision but its beginning to look that way. We of course could still make the play offs but then that would be positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 No it would be a MIRACLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 2 or 3 seasons?! Goodness me you are generous. So if we finished 7th this season, and next season, you'd happily employ him for a 3rd? Murray said himself when he was appointed he thought he'd be sacked if the club was around the bottom of the table after 20 odd games. I agree with him. He's had 11 and we're around the bottom of the table, by his own barometer he has 9 to save his job. I don't think we'll finish 7th this season. I reckon we will push into the top half and we'll be willing to give him another season or 2 to see how things develop. If we make no improvement at all - of course we will look at other options. Just think we need to give the guy a chance to learn. If it takes us 2 or 3 seasons to gain promotion, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I wasn't passing judgment on Aitken's success or otherwise as a manager. The point I was trying to get across is that when you have a reputation as a sacking club, which is what some would like us to be, then the chances of attracting quality managers is far lower. When did we last attract any quality managers?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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