More redundancies. Where are you SMISA?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, truesaint said:

Some of the smartest entrepreneurial people in the world do one thing well.
They hire good people who are smarter that them in key areas. But they need to trust those individuals to deliver and not run the business at a loss.
Despite my stupidity I have had a very successful career and run multiple businesses. Never once have I ever run my own businesses at a loss or lost any customers in my corporate career. I made a lot of money for my clients. Win-win scenario as I get repeat business year after year and in turn new business through refferals.
I’ve witnessed highly intelligent individuals make businesses really complex and invariably lose money.

You have not even supplied a direct link. I know what I wrote and I base that on my own experience no one else’s.

You are trying to be funny and make things up to belittle someone’s opinion. That says a lot about you. 

I would never read that trash. No true football supporter should ever buy or look online at that corrupt organisation.

Have you ever been to Hillsborough before or after 15th April 1989? I have. 

Do you know anyone who were directly affected by the Hillsborough tragedy? I have.

Fans died as a direct result of incompetence by the governing bodies, police and paramedics.

A cover up was instigated by those in power and they used the media to cover their tracks and idiots swallowed it up as “The Truth”.

It took decades to get the real truth. But not one single conviction. Those in power with money and influence will always escape justice. It’s fcuking wrong that Duckenfield escaped jail. Same could be said for John Needhams former boss Goodwin at RBS. He should be behind bars or at the very least performing community service in the communities he has devastated through his corrupt business deals.

We may well have our own financial issues. No one outside of our board of directors knows the exact financial state of play.

I see that Aston Villas captain John McGinn was dropped for their most recent game after Steven Gerrard was sacked.
Gerrard lost his cousin 10-year-old Jon-Paul Gilhooley at Hillsborough.
25 fcuking years after Jon-Paul was killed his inquest to hear the truth was finally heard here in a decent newspaper:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/23/youngest-hillsborough-victim-inquest-jon-paul-gilhooley

I believe our board have been gambling our future on the possibility of John McGinn moving on. They might get that wish in January as the new manager might want to move him on.

Now if our accounts show a loss of more than £100,000 this year our club BoD need to take a real hard look at their position.

If John McGinn is sold the funds from that deal that SGG put in place with Hibs should have been a platform to grow our club sustainably. Not fill the massive void if we have been haemorrhaging money trying to live up to “top 6 Tony” dreams from a long forgotten time when we had a part time striker in Doug Somner nearly winning a golden boot for scoring 35 goals in a single season and finishing in our highest ever league position. That was the year Fergie with Aberdeen won his first league title. We ran them close that season and if we had not lost Frank McDougall to a broken leg thanks to Danny McGrain much earlier in the season we could have won that title. We also won the ASC that season but had we not been in that tournament we may have had a better chance of winning the league. 

Aberdeen went to play Liverpool and that is the match that really kick started the casual scene in Scotland with the launch of the ASC.

I digress. Let’s get back on topic,

No one at our club or any business should ever gamble the future in “what if?”

Edited October 24, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[FTOF]

Someone really needs to get out more.

[Brilliant Disguise]

18 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

The problem is that we should NEVER even be in this position right now.

Before Kibble got involved we were running the business off the field exceptionally well. That was despite the fact that we nearly got relegated from the Championship.

Within the last 18months we have allowed a situation to develop where I’ve been we are running with unsustainable losses. These should have been addressed months ago. The membership and the club owners should have been told the truth at the last SMISA meeting by the representatives of the club board when asked specific questions

So its all the Kibbles fault and SGG will come in and save us through the back door of a SMISA membership. Your having a laugh. 

I’m with JJM i did not pay my SMISA membership to pay off the SGG clique then allow him to still sit at the table. The clique spent years and failed to sell the club. They were not it even interested in selling to SMISA.. It took for GLS to put his SMISA/GLS deal to them for it to be pushed through. It was only accepted as there were no other offers. The clique could have at the very onset offered fans ownership as the model for selling their shares. NOPE !! They touted the club around the market in the hope a sugar daddy would appear with bars of gold to take their shares. (Remember they deliberately omitted other shareholders from the clique to maximise their own return) 

There is some contradictions in your post. Initially you claim to have an insight to the apparent abyss in the running of the club then next your stating that you need to wait until the accounts are lodged on Companies House to find the official line.

[JJ McG]

2 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You have not even supplied a direct link. I know what I wrote and I base that on my own experience no one else’s.

You are trying to be funny and make things up to belittle someone’s opinion. That says a lot about you. 

I would never read that trash. No true football supporter should ever buy or look online at that corrupt organisation.

Have you ever been to Hillsborough before or after 15th April 1989? I have. 

Do you know anyone who were directly affected by the Hillsborough tragedy? I have.

Fans died as a direct result of incompetence by the governing bodies, police and paramedics.

A cover up was instigated by those in power and they used the media to cover their tracks and idiots swallowed it up as “The Truth”.

It took decades to get the real truth. But not one single conviction. Those in power with money and influence will always escape justice. It’s fcuking wrong that Duckenfield escaped jail. Same could be said for John Needhams former boss Goodwin at RBS. He should be behind bars or at the very least performing community service in the communities he has devastated through his corrupt business deals.

We may well have our own financial issues. No one outside of our board of directors knows the exact financial state of play.

I see that Aston Villas captain John McGinn was dropped for their most recent game after Steven Gerrard was sacked.
Gerrard lost his cousin 10-year-old Jon-Paul Gilhooley at Hillsborough.
25 fcuking years after Jon-Paul was killed his inquest to hear the truth was finally heard here in a decent newspaper:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/23/youngest-hillsborough-victim-inquest-jon-paul-gilhooley

I believe our board have been gambling our future on the possibility of John McGinn moving on. They might get that wish in January as the new manager might want to move him on.

Now if our accounts show a loss of more than £100,000 this year our club BoD need to take a real hard look at their position.

If John McGinn is sold the funds from that deal that SGG put in place with Hibs should have been a platform to grow our club sustainably. Not fill the massive void if we have been haemorrhaging money trying to live up to “top 6 Tony” dreams from a long forgotten time when we had a part time striker in Doug Somner nearly winning a golden boot for scoring 35 goals in a single season and finishing in our highest ever league position. That was the year Fergie with Aberdeen won his first league title. We ran them close that season and if we had not lost Frank McDougall to a broken leg thanks to Danny McGrain much earlier in the season we could have won that title. We also won the ASC that season but had we not been in that tournament we may have had a better chance of winning the league. 

Aberdeen went to play Liverpool and that is the match that really kick started the casual scene in Scotland with the launch of the ASC.

I digress. Let’s get back on topic,

No one at our club or any business should ever gamble the future in “what if?”

Jesus wept.

[JJ McG]

10 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

But you could not answer this simple question? 

 

Do you have the personal experience or know of anyone who does?  

Out of interest….since you seem to be ITK. I know you are friends with GLS so ask him.

How much has the academy cost to refurbish?

Who is actually in charge of that work?

Who are the subcontractors?

When did this work finish?

at the last SMISA meeting in August a club director told the audience the Academy refurbishment had still not been finished. For context this work started over 2 years ago during the covid pandemic.

 

You know I’m friends with GLS? 😅

[Stu]

18 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

They were never paid. I’m sure the money they invested in the club back in the 1990’s they could have invested in their businesses, personal property, holidays, etc

Never mind the hours of sacrifice without asking for anything in return.

 

Makes it even more bizarre that at least one of them seemingly wants back in.

[faraway saint]

16 minutes ago, JJ McG said:

You know I’m friends with GLS? 😅

That isnae true, you don't have any friends. 🤣🤣🤣

[truesaint]

4 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You have not even supplied a direct link. I know what I wrote and I base that on my own experience no one else’s.

You are trying to be funny and make things up to belittle someone’s opinion. That says a lot about you. 

 

It was open to interpretation. How you interpreted it and your response says a lot. If you read back the notes from July's quarterly it probably explains some of the things that have happened in the background. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by truesaint

[StanleySaint]

4 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You have not even supplied a direct link. I know what I wrote and I base that on my own experience no one else’s.

You are trying to be funny and make things up to belittle someone’s opinion. That says a lot about you. 

I would never read that trash. No true football supporter should ever buy or look online at that corrupt organisation.

Have you ever been to Hillsborough before or after 15th April 1989? I have. 

Do you know anyone who were directly affected by the Hillsborough tragedy? I have.

Fans died as a direct result of incompetence by the governing bodies, police and paramedics.

A cover up was instigated by those in power and they used the media to cover their tracks and idiots swallowed it up as “The Truth”.

It took decades to get the real truth. But not one single conviction. Those in power with money and influence will always escape justice. It’s fcuking wrong that Duckenfield escaped jail. Same could be said for John Needhams former boss Goodwin at RBS. He should be behind bars or at the very least performing community service in the communities he has devastated through his corrupt business deals.

We may well have our own financial issues. No one outside of our board of directors knows the exact financial state of play.

I see that Aston Villas captain John McGinn was dropped for their most recent game after Steven Gerrard was sacked.
Gerrard lost his cousin 10-year-old Jon-Paul Gilhooley at Hillsborough.
25 fcuking years after Jon-Paul was killed his inquest to hear the truth was finally heard here in a decent newspaper:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/23/youngest-hillsborough-victim-inquest-jon-paul-gilhooley

I believe our board have been gambling our future on the possibility of John McGinn moving on. They might get that wish in January as the new manager might want to move him on.

Now if our accounts show a loss of more than £100,000 this year our club BoD need to take a real hard look at their position.

If John McGinn is sold the funds from that deal that SGG put in place with Hibs should have been a platform to grow our club sustainably. Not fill the massive void if we have been haemorrhaging money trying to live up to “top 6 Tony” dreams from a long forgotten time when we had a part time striker in Doug Somner nearly winning a golden boot for scoring 35 goals in a single season and finishing in our highest ever league position. That was the year Fergie with Aberdeen won his first league title. We ran them close that season and if we had not lost Frank McDougall to a broken leg thanks to Danny McGrain much earlier in the season we could have won that title. We also won the ASC that season but had we not been in that tournament we may have had a better chance of winning the league. 

Aberdeen went to play Liverpool and that is the match that really kick started the casual scene in Scotland with the launch of the ASC.

I digress. Let’s get back on topic,

No one at our club or any business should ever gamble the future in “what if?”

Nice, if almost totally irrelevant rant, you could and maybe should have just posted the last sentence?

[waldorf34]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Makes it even more bizarre that at least one of them seemingly wants back in.

They want back in with no financial  input  , makes sense. 

But IF we are in financial  trouble we need guys with expertise  to help solve the problem .

Smisa raised  a small fortune previously  ,have nearly £200k in the bank ,so we can ,if required  ,get  back on an even keel and move forward with a tram doing  the business  on the park.

[hamlet]

11 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

But you could not answer this simple question? 

 

Do you have the personal experience or know of anyone who does?  

Out of interest….since you seem to be ITK. I know you are friends with GLS so ask him.

How much has the academy cost to refurbish?

Who is actually in charge of that work?

Who are the subcontractors?

When did this work finish?

at the last SMISA meeting in August a club director told the audience the Academy refurbishment had still not been finished. For context this work started over 2 years ago during the covid pandemic.

 

Not finished on time since work had to be stopped because planning permission had not been applied for.  Legal requirements could not have been part of the best run clubs questionaire. 

SS, I thought I was the only one to still remind and bore anyone who listens about the premeditated brutal attack by McGrain on Frank McDougall. It would have been a jail sentence if VA R had been in place.

[waldorf34]

20 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

They want back in with no financial  input  , makes sense. 

But IF we are in financial  trouble we need guys with expertise  to help solve the problem .

Smisa raised  a small fortune previously  ,have nearly £200k in the bank ,so we can ,if required  ,get  back on an even keel and move forward with a tram doing  the business  on the park.

Team not tram!

[antrin]

19 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

 

Smisa raised  a small fortune previously  ,have nearly £200k in the bank ,so we can ,if required  ,get  back on an even keel and move forward with a tram doing  the business  on the park.

Much more innovative than simply parking a bus.

[Doakes]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:56 PM, BuddieinEK said:

You are being disingenuous at best.

You and I both know our shared concerns despite your publîc faux persona! 

Genuinely not that worried

If this was a court case, everything posted so far would be shrugged off as "objection, hearsay"

I recently visited Kibble through work. Without going into specifics of a business relationship, they were thorough on due diligence, professional and pleasant to work with 

Not sure why a long-established organisation would jeopardise their reputation to mess with a local football club

If the annual accounts cause alarm, I'll be out with the pitchforks like the rest of us. Until then, bit of a non-issue

If our good form continues, I have no doubt that we'll be in a great financial position, and we'll look back on this thread as nonsense 

[Slarti]

Genuinely not that worried
If this was a court case, everything posted so far would be shrugged off as "objection, hearsay"
I recently visited Kibble through work. Without going into specifics of a business relationship, they were thorough on due diligence, professional and pleasant to work with 
Not sure why a long-established organisation would jeopardise their reputation to mess with a local football club
If the annual accounts cause alarm, I'll be out with the pitchforks like the rest of us. Until then, bit of a non-issue
If our good form continues, I have no doubt that we'll be in a great financial position, and we'll look back on this thread as nonsense 

Don't need to wait and look back, you can look at it as nonsense right now. IMO, of course.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, JJ McG said:

You know I’m friends with GLS? 😅

I’ve already highlighted key operational failures under his watch that caused games to be called off dnd partial stadium closures that cost the club money and SMISA had to bail him out.

Jesus wept. 😢 

[Guest]

GLS was chairman when he and the SMiSA committee “convinced” the membership at a flash sales presentation at the Glynhill Hotel that bringing Kibble onboard would :

- provide staff support and commercial expertise to help grow St Mirren as a business and create new income to be reinvested in the club

- create training, job and sporting opportunities for the young people in their care, meaning our club will help change the lives of some of the country’s most vulnerable kids;

Kibble chief executive Jim Gillespie said: “We are incredibly excited by this important plan for both organisations, both of which were founded in Paisley in Victorian times and are a part of the town’s history”.

“This is not about Kibble wanting to be involved in the day-to-day running of a football club, our offering will be to bring new resource and expertise to help St. Mirren grow as a business, while expanding opportunities in the community”.

So if Kibble didn’t want to be involved in the day-to-day running why did they provide a dedicated general manager? Firstly in David Jamieson and then Lynsey McLean whose last roles within the Kibble were as General Managers of a state of the art all-electric go-karting top tourist attraction with significant funding from external bodies. The Experience wound up with debts of £1.9M in only a few short years.

Kibble then provided these two individuals free of charge to St Mirren.

I look forward to seeing the annual accounts hit my inbox and see the positive impact that unique relationship has had on our club.

I really hope that GLS-Kibble-SMiSA partnership is going to bring significant off-field financial success. That is what we all want. It’s actually more important for our books to balance every season than chase top-6-Tony’s fantasy.

I sincerely hope the information I have received is absolute bollox - then you can all point and laugh at the stupid idiot who has been taken for a mug.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, truesaint said:

It was open to interpretation. How you interpreted it and your response says a lot. If you read back the notes from July's quarterly it probably explains some of the things that have happened in the background. 

I was a present at the back of the meeting just observing and the minutes do not reflect the mood of the room that night and the lack of “truthful” answers from the BoD.

This quote from this meeting says:

JN revealed the board get management accounts every month from the club accountant and examine them at board meetings and take action where needed. JG explained that there is an audit committee and a finance committee and the club now has the necessary financial and fiscal policies in place. He added that the club is in a better position today than this time last year but that, along with cutting their cloth, the club also has to scale the business to try to generate income. So alongside looking at what happened last year in terms of finances, the club is also continually looking at different ways to also grow the business.

This implies that financially we should be on target to break even or even better be in profit for annual accounts up til 31st May 2022. 

Last year (Covid-hit) we published losses of around £40,000. The season before that SMFC Ltd were £130,000 in profit. 

We also received an interest free loan last financial year (ended May 2021) of £1.7M payable from September 2022 over 20 years.

Thats a great platform to move forward from.

 

[JJ McG]

38 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I’ve already highlighted key operational failures under his watch that caused games to be called off dnd partial stadium closures that cost the club money and SMISA had to bail him out.

Jesus wept. 😢 

Thankfully he didn’t appoint Tommy Craig and leave us hurtling towards league 1 under his watch.

Edited October 24, 2022 by JJ McG

[djchapsticks]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:03 AM, Brilliant Disguise said:

So its all the Kibbles fault and SGG will come in and save us through the back door of a SMISA membership. Your having a laugh. 

I’m with JJM i did not pay my SMISA membership to pay off the SGG clique then allow him to still sit at the table. The clique spent years and failed to sell the club. They were not it even interested in selling to SMISA.. It took for GLS to put his SMISA/GLS deal to them for it to be pushed through. It was only accepted as there were no other offers. The clique could have at the very onset offered fans ownership as the model for selling their shares. NOPE !! They touted the club around the market in the hope a sugar daddy would appear with bars of gold to take their shares. (Remember they deliberately omitted other shareholders from the clique to maximise their own return) 

There is some contradictions in your post. Initially you claim to have an insight to the apparent abyss in the running of the club then next your stating that you need to wait until the accounts are lodged on Companies House to find the official line.

Look what you've made me do SuperSaints.

You've made me agree with Dickson!

I 100% agree with this - I've had f**k knows how many set-to's with you and your motives down the years but you're correct that there is absolutely nothing to be gained in going back that way. For all the good that the old board did over the piece (in my opinion and I know you don't agree with that SD), the last few years very much made it clear that it was time for all parties to get out ASAP and yet it seemed that they just wouldn't. Fair enough for them looking for some sort of return on investment I suppose but things like the Argentinian consortium debacle, the obvious lack of really giving that much of a toss in the end up and the thinly veiled threats of financial ruin if we did not vote Rangers back into the top flight all definitely left a sour taste in the mouth.

[elvis]

On 10/23/2022 at 5:01 PM, JJ McG said:

The same SGG that appointed Tommy Craig and left us hurtling towards league 1? Since Gordon Scott and kibble came in we’ve went from strength to strength, our stadium has been upgraded as has our training complex been refurbished, we are in a far better place on and off the park regardless of the shite that is being spouted. 
 

We are trying to move forward as a club and we have massively so I would like to think the dinosaur days are gone, if he gets appointed my membership will be cancelled.
 

 

 

So you seem to be in the know regarding lots of things about the club so give us your slant on this situation we are being told we are in because if you read between the lines we are in deep shit which doesn't bode well for our future.

[FTOF]

I don't doubt that there will be some sort of financial deficit, given Covid and the current economic situation that the world has been forced into.

If we have spent the government money, then so be it. It's to be paid back at a very low rate, so not a huge worry IMO.

If there are other financial debts, then we'll have to see if we can sell a couple of players and get some of our high wage earners, currently warming the bench, off the payroll.

As much as I thought SGG, on the whole, was a decent custodian of the club, I think that bringing him back, is a retrograde step.

A lot of what seems to be happening seems to be down to supporters running the club disagreeing with the direction that The KIbble are taking the club. i.e. they've fallen out with each other. 

IMO this was always going to happen. It's one of the reasons I voted against The Kibble involvement. However, I suspect that even if we'd stuck with the original model, someone would have thrown their toys out of the pram at some point.

I wonder how many people who voted for The Kibble involvement have changed their mind. FWIW I think The Kibble have done a lot of good, despite my reservations, and we are a far more professional outfit, both on and off the field. However, has it come at too high a cost?

There is no ideal way to run a club. Single ownership doesn't seem to be working all that well for Dundee United and Hibs if you look at the level of dissent from their fans.

Almost every club has gone through some sort of "owner influenced" turmoil. Maybe it's our turn again.

[eastlandssaint]

Kenny Docherty appointed new SMISA chairman after replacing Paisley MSP George Adam - Daily Record

[alanb]

Club Directory (stmirren.com)

Updated recently,goes against the narrative but new club doctor appointed. Dr Ian Heron,welcome to the club.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

I've had f**k knows how many set-to's with you and your motives down the years

Is this referring to me or Dickson?

If me when? I’ve only been on this site since September 2021..