Jump to content

jimdickloyal

Speculation Thread

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that other teams around us are having no problems recruiting good players so that argument falls a bit flat.

Of course, if Gus and Jim manage to sign some fantastic players in time for the first league match then a bit of humble pie eating will be needed but there's simply no excuse for not having SOME decent players on board beyond what we already have. We might not be Rangers or Celtic but we are not East Stirling either.

Eh, who are the good players Hamilton, Livi and RC have recruited? I think the players we recruited in Jan are far better than anything they have signed this close season. Lets see who we have signed by end of August then we can assess properly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that other teams around us are having no problems recruiting good players so that argument falls a bit flat.

Of course, if Gus and Jim manage to sign some fantastic players in time for the first league match then a bit of humble pie eating will be needed but there's simply no excuse for not having SOME decent players on board beyond what we already have. We might not be Rangers or Celtic but we are not East Stirling either.

Certainly other teams do seem to get players in early but are they any good  ?  There isn't a player that had signed for Livvy or the Accies that I have heard of before so I wouldn't know if they are any good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that other teams around us are having no problems recruiting good players so that argument falls a bit flat.

Of course, if Gus and Jim manage to sign some fantastic players in time for the first league match then a bit of humble pie eating will be needed but there's simply no excuse for not having SOME decent players on board beyond what we already have. We might not be Rangers or Celtic but we are not East Stirling either.

How do you know that they are good players?

The clubs around us seem to have signed complete unknowns or cast offs from other clubs. Hardly tried and tested.

I do agree that we are setting our sights too high, if our targets are proving unaffordable or simply don't think the club is of high enough quality for them.

On another point. The example used by LPM of Shankland is laughable.

Dundee United are bankrolled by American millionaires. I read on P&B that they had recently invested £600K into their youth system. 

A completely different playing field from us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem is that other teams around us are having no problems recruiting good players so that argument falls a bit flat.
Of course, if Gus and Jim manage to sign some fantastic players in time for the first league match then a bit of humble pie eating will be needed but there's simply no excuse for not having SOME decent players on board beyond what we already have. We might not be Rangers or Celtic but we are not East Stirling either.
Not disagreeing, but who are the specific good signings that have been made by Accies, Livingston and County for this season ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, faraway saint said:
3 hours ago, foxbar_bud said:

 


Sorry LPM but I can’t believe this is true, Sweeper who is clearly ITK, has said we have a massively increased budget this year

Or he did back in June, has been a bit quieter about that recently

 

TBH he's been a bit quieter since the news broke about Kearney..............................maybe disappointed he wasn't kept in the loop? :wink:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Wit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           fun

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         prank

                                                                                                 jest

                                                                                              banter

                                                                                            sarcasm

Edited by jaybee
trying to be too clever doh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

It's that simple IF the player wants to come to the club. In foreign players cases that's an added IF. We are just not attractive enough to be able to sign who we want within our price range and we certainly don't want to start paying a premium for players over their worth simply to get them to sign for SMFC.

Paisley is close to Glasgow which is reasonably attractive to live in but as a club players aren't yearning to play for SMFC. There has to be willing on both sides it's not as simple as wave the cash and they will come.

With due respect it really is that simple for the market we are in. £500 extra than their present deal a week would see most of our targets sign. But if you aint got that budget they will wait to see if simeone else has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

With due respect it really is that simple for the market we are in. £500 extra than their present deal a week would see most of our targets sign. But if you aint got that budget they will wait to see if simeone else has.

£500 more than what though. Too simple to say "offer any guy £500pw more than they are on just now and they will sign". Many foreign players would accept 300 a week more from a club in their own country rather than uproot to Paisley for what in effect would be an extra 200pw. Global labour markets are very complex and not the simple wave the dosh and they will come you portray.  There is contract length and job security too to factor in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, oaksoft said:
3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

the only thing you need to sign a player is the wage/transfer/signing on funds in place, and a telephone. These guys arent hiding in a cave system in Tora Bora..! They want clubs to approach their agent and make an offer. Look at Dun Utd landing Shankland.. they came in late, but fast and direct, met the players expectations on salary... deal done!

our problem is quite obviously MONEY... and not being able to get agents/players to commit on first contact as they feel there is a better deal out there. So we make endless enquiries and are told "is that it? Ok if we dont get a better deal we'll come back to you"

 

Actually I there is clearly a lot of truth in this.

It sounds like we are pursuing players who are out of our price range rather than being realistic.

That's two seasons of this in a row we've had to tolerate now.

We'll get decent players in of course but it might be towards the end of the window when other teams have finished buying. This of course means we risk being the thick end of two months behind our nearest competitors.

Ambition is great. I'm all for it. You need to back it up with a decent plan though.

Edited 2 hours ago by oaksoft

Sometimes it would appear that some people post on here in isolation without reading anything pertinent to that which they are commenting upon. Now would having more money in the budget enable us to sign better quality players?   Mmmmmmmmmmmm let's have a vote on it, think about it for a few months and then make a decision. I mean talk about stating the obvious! LPM said it, you agreed, wow ! what a pair of geniuses, you should be in charge ............. of something, but not St Mirren, we have our own dummies we don't need more.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FTOF said:

How do you know that they are good players?

The clubs around us seem to have signed complete unknowns or cast offs from other clubs. Hardly tried and tested.

I do agree that we are setting our sights too high, if our targets are proving unaffordable or simply don't think the club is of high enough quality for them.

On another point. The example used by LPM of Shankland is laughable.

Dundee United are bankrolled by American millionaires. I read on P&B that they had recently invested £600K into their youth system. 

A completely different playing field from us.

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

Most people might want (debatable) a three year contract at our level but the majority don’t get it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

£500 more than what though. Too simple to say "offer any guy £500pw more than they are on just now and they will sign". Many foreign players would accept 300 a week more from a club in their own country rather than uproot to Paisley for what in effect would be an extra 200pw. Global labour markets are very complex and not the simple wave the dosh and they will come you portray.  There is contract length and job security too to factor in.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.

now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.

there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.

its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.

last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.

what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....

that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2019 at 8:16 AM, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Copy and paste where I said we would be relegated.  If your pointing the finger show the post. You cant can you. What I will say clearly our player budget is not up to our expectations otherwise the recruitment would be well in place. 

Hard to argue against the point that money is tight. My guess is that we bring in a mix of 3 Contracted players and 3 Loan players but these might not come in till later in the window when expectations drop. Might prefer it was otherwise and hope that I am proved wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With just over 2 weeks until the first league game, we really are cutting it fine with regards to getting bodies in. Hopefully we'll have enough to see off EK and Albion R , but you've really got to fear our first 3 league games. Could be a couple of heavy defeats as things stand currently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, insaintee said:
30 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

The only team at the moment who seem to be gelling particularly well is Dunfermline, I know they haven't played anybody of consequences as yet but I watched the Albion Rovers game and they were good, things at the moment are clicking for them.  This doesn't necessarily mean all their signings are great or superior quality, but let's be fair .... they are doing OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Hard to argue against the point that money is tight. My guess is that we bring in a mix of 3 Contracted players and 3 Loan players but these might not come in till later in the window when expectations drop. Might prefer it was otherwise and hope that I am proved wrong. 

Would agree with that Ricky we know McAllister is maybe aye, maybe naw. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, insaintee said:

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

Its not a bigger gamble, its a racing certainty that if you don't pay the going rate for a decent player you will be relegated!

re your last bit about better players, I think that was Oaky's point, not mine. That said, i would agree that on paper at least our signings of Lyness, Andreu and Djorkaeff are below the standard of others signings.

Lyness i get, we needed a No2 keeper, or cover when Hldaky goes (which, mark my words will be in this window), Andreu is thise season's Donatti, or Gow, and Djorkaeff is a complete unknown quantity. Hope he dazzles us, we will know two weeks tomorrow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.
now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.
there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.
its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.
last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.
what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....
that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?


Can’t argue with you here chap as you make some good points.
However. With Goodwin knowing the club so well and knowing the history of the managerial merry go round since he left the last time, he’d surely need to be off his head to take the job under those circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Russian Saint said:

 


Can’t argue with you here chap as you make some good points.
However. With Goodwin knowing the club so well and knowing the history of the managerial merry go round since he left the last time, he’d surely need to be off his head to take the job under those circumstances.

 

Ego can easily brush aside stark reality!

i am sure Goody is convinced he can improve us, but he needs all the tools at his disposal to do that, and i fear he's been given just a half set of clubs?

what will be worth watching, and will give a wry chuckle is when the chairman realises its not working on the cheap and flings money at players or a more experienced assistant like Nicholl. I fear this time though there wont be a great escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaybee said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Wit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           fun

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         prank

                                                                                                 jest

                                                                                              banter

                                                                                            sarcasm

Looks like I should not have gone abroad on business and then taken a holiday I think. . . :turtle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Ah, the reduced to clear shelf-where everything is either smaller than xxs or bigger than xxl or in a horrendous colour

Does that make Josh Heaton the equivalent of a pair of 44" waist fluoro-green chinos topped off with a vomit-yellow and burgundy ralph lauren shirt?

TKmax shopper outed! :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Ah, the reduced to clear shelf-where everything is either smaller than xxs or bigger than xxl or in a horrendous colour

Does that make Josh Heaton the equivalent of a pair of 44" waist fluoro-green chinos topped off with a vomit-yellow and burgundy ralph lauren shirt?

No that would be Shull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I bought a summer wardrobe for £23 and you can spot me at 1000 metres in the dark

Popped in myself and got a lovely pair of shoes. Didn't try them on - who does? Anyway left shoe size 9 right shoe size 13. I walk in circles now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...