The Original 59er Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I have nothing but full support for 10000 Hours, but any business plan needs to have all of the following: 1. A leader, 2. A vision, 3. A robust business case and 4. A strategy 'B' policy that it can fall back if the 1st idea doesn't work If you can then convince Banks, Local Authority and the cynics within the community, then maybe, just maybe, you can make it work. I can't subscribe to the excuse that the 10000 Hours proposal simply failed because it refused to accept that the money they were putting up was going into the hands of the Directors and not into the club. Only when the Club is going either into administration or bankruptcy and the opportunity arises to buy into the ownership with the 'Community' model could you then be assured the money wasn't going to the people who own the shares, otherwise any different owner is going to have to deal with the share owners (or the administrator or liquidator), and pay them an amount that they accept as a way out. I do see that the community buy out model can work........................................ but, and it is a large but, perhaps it requires a very robust business plan behind it and from what I understand that wasn't fully part of the proposal, but then again maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On a wider perspective, St Mirren are a toiling wee club in a toiling wee environment , Scottish football. There is hee haw cash about , there is hee haw appeal about the product and the obvious question is who wopuld want to buy a team that exists in an environment that , let's face it, is gash. The Main League , the creme de la creme of the game in Scotland does not even have a sponsor ffs. The game is rapidly becoming more like ( with all due respect ) the football league in Ireland. I mean synthetic surfaces now are all over the place, cos clubs cannae afford a groundsman and we try to get wee games in the community up and running to bolster the clubs funding. There we have it ................Macroeconomic Doomsville. ........and yet, despite this, other teams manage to string three passes together, pick up back to back wins and occasionally find themselves in the top 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I have nothing but full support for 10000 Hours, but any business plan needs to have all of the following: 1. A leader, 2. A vision, 3. A robust business case and 4. A strategy 'B' policy that it can fall back if the 1st idea doesn't work If you can then convince Banks, Local Authority and the cynics within the community, then maybe, just maybe, you can make it work. I can't subscribe to the excuse that the 10000 Hours proposal simply failed because it refused to accept that the money they were putting up was going into the hands of the Directors and not into the club. Only when the Club is going either into administration or bankruptcy and the opportunity arises to buy into the ownership with the 'Community' model could you then be assured the money wasn't going to the people who own the shares, otherwise any different owner is going to have to deal with the share owners (or the administrator or liquidator), and pay them an amount that they accept as a way out. I do see that the community buy out model can work........................................ but, and it is a large but, perhaps it requires a very robust business plan behind it and from what I understand that wasn't fully part of the proposal, but then again maybe I'm wrong. Put simply, was it not the lack of guaranteed ongoing funding that made this model , a lost cause. It would seem to me that uncertainty of future cash = risk. I may be wrong but were the BoD not very uncomfortable about the scheme having the financial resource to substantiate the initiative. Any scheme that requires a monthly manadate to scratch up a base level of secured income is fraught with risk. That's before you go on to the whataboutery of future possibilities. It wouldn't convince me anyway, it's all or nothing in business when you are buying and selling , anything less is a deal breaker....cards on the table or get lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 ........and yet, despite this, other teams manage to string three passes together, pick up back to back wins and occasionally find themselves in the top 6 Sure, yup, but as can be seen by attendances, look at Inverness as a perfect example.....their crowds are appalling despite their fabulous on field success. If we ever managed to turn it around on the park , I reckon we would get some more interest in the short term, but by and large the game here has no proper sense of itself as a decent quality product. You watch Sportscene any time recently , feck, if that is a weather vane for our game, well no wonder its in the shitter Folk just don't like the product, the 'customer experience' is utter gash with the Overall product, that being 'Scottish football'. It's in that context that St Mirren bod are toiling to get a sale. Unfortunately for us the team performence currently is very much a hostage to this state of affairs. Cheap and very cheerless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On a wider perspective, St Mirren are a toiling wee club in a toiling wee environment , Scottish football. There is hee haw cash about , there is hee haw appeal about the product and the obvious question is who wopuld want to buy a team that exists in an environment that , let's face it, is gash. The Main League , the creme de la creme of the game in Scotland does not even have a sponsor ffs. The game is rapidly becoming more like ( with all due respect ) the football league in Ireland. I mean synthetic surfaces now are all over the place, cos clubs cannae afford a groundsman and we try to get wee games in the community up and running to bolster the clubs funding. There we have it ................Macroeconomic Doomsville. At least the league in Ireland has a sponsor. As for plastic pitches, some plank of a journo in the Daily Retard claimed they were commonplace in the Irish league. There's ONE, yes one, in the Premier here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Sure, yup, but as can be seen by attendances, look at Inverness as a perfect example.....their crowds are appalling despite their fabulous on field success. If we ever managed to turn it around on the park , I reckon we would get some more interest in the short term, but by and large the game here has no proper sense of itself as a decent quality product. You watch Sportscene any time recently , feck, if that is a weather vane for our game, well no wonder its in the shitter Folk just don't like the product, the 'customer experience' is utter gash with the Overall product, that being 'Scottish football'. It's in that context that St Mirren bod are toiling to get a sale. Unfortunately for us the team performence currently is very much a hostage to this state of affairs. Cheap and very cheerless. Inverness are a good example of the problems in the game. They've a small catchment, population wise, and half of the potential fans there 'support' on or other of the Bigot Brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Could it be tomorrow perhaps? Tomorrow never comes... unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 We had 10000 hours willing to organise all of this but the BoD rejected the offer. We have lost out on a range of community based initiatives, not to mention the fans bar which Kibble were all set to provide and run. Missed opportunity. 10000 hours could't arrange feckin flowers! They disappeared without any communication several times, they could not bring one penny of the supposed grants/funding they assured all and sundry was in the bag, and they then had the affront to use fan ownership as way for GLS to flog his shares. Kibble wanted to asset strip our club taking control of our hospitality and corporate business. Missed Opportunity? The consortium saw it more as Bullet Dodged...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Sure, yup, but as can be seen by attendances, look at Inverness as a perfect example.....their crowds are appalling despite their fabulous on field success. If we ever managed to turn it around on the park , I reckon we would get some more interest in the short term, but by and large the game here has no proper sense of itself as a decent quality product. You watch Sportscene any time recently , feck, if that is a weather vane for our game, well no wonder its in the shitter Folk just don't like the product, the 'customer experience' is utter gash with the Overall product, that being 'Scottish football'. It's in that context that St Mirren bod are toiling to get a sale. Unfortunately for us the team performence currently is very much a hostage to this state of affairs. Cheap and very cheerless. Don't disagree with any of that mate but the fact remains, despite all of the shit and apathy surrounding our game, other teams consistently make a better fist of it than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mearnssaint Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On a wider perspective, St Mirren are a toiling wee club in a toiling wee environment , Scottish football. There is hee haw cash about , there is hee haw appeal about the product and the obvious question is who wopuld want to buy a team that exists in an environment that , let's face it, is gash. The Main League , the creme de la creme of the game in Scotland does not even have a sponsor ffs. The game is rapidly becoming more like ( with all due respect ) the football league in Ireland. I mean synthetic surfaces now are all over the place, cos clubs cannae afford a groundsman and we try to get wee games in the community up and running to bolster the clubs funding. There we have it ................Macroeconomic Doomsville. Scottish football is a tragic backwater of the game, a shadow of its former self, and attracts next to no interest either in viewing terms, column inches or financially anywhere outwith Scotland. And then as for us, well as so rightly said we are nothing even within the relative nothingness of Scotland. We are effectively a barnacle clinging to a very small rock cast away in the vastness of the Atlantic Ocean. And TC is a shitty wee hermit crab who has lost one of his claws, and is struggling to battle against the crashing waves which are bashing down his rock pool. However he seems to be able to use his one remaining claw to hold on to that rock pool and piss off all the other sea creatures who think he's f**king the rock pool up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambo Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 What is a crustacean? answers please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 This cures them. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1nzdLpLSdUBiXUF8jt1ZOBIE9qrlCAp9tNirEooVcIZuvIpEYkQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 What is a crustacean? answers please! I'll sidestep this one, because I might know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Crab C Nesbitt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomsbury Bud Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 What is a crustacean? answers please! There's a few of them in London, Kings Crustacean, St Pancrustacean, New Crustacean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Ok back to la la land, for Saints supporters we know its a big roller coaster ride and 28000 at 14 matches shows the Scottish game is in crisis never mind us. You know we have seen them come with their track records, Davie Hay springs to mind, fact is as experience goes TC is a great guy to have, so he sits behind Danny , by all accounts is a driving force, then gets springboarded to the lofty position of Saints Manager. Following on from great names like MacPherson, Hendrie, and Coug, . In other words lets compare that to Well, less fanbase, provincial, feeder and a tit of a chairman, Butcher, McCall, McGhee, last two now in Scots set up. For those old enough, you cant make a silk purse ........ and for years we have somehow survived, and that's what we do well. Silky footie eh no, we got the pludits for that with DL, Clunie and Fergie, remember DL, the young manager, with no budget but what he did have was TC. Who has TC got. Jim Badwin and Old man teale in other words no one. So much venom, aimed at him why exactly? Cause he cant get a very poor team to win? He has no budget, no support and on that the most fickle fans out. So for those that stay away, go up the road, there is a big team in crisis, they need your money. This is a blip and for true fans as we are not Chelsea we have to ride out storm. Endeth Edited December 4, 2014 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Lots of posts recently about Scottish football being crap, a shadow of its former self, a sponsorless backwater... etc. That's how I feel now. My main interest always was St Mirren and St Mirren alone, but in the past the St Mirren I cared about had guys like Fitzpatrick and Scanlon in it, taking on Aberdeen and Dundee United sides who had guys like Miller, McLeish, Sturrock and Bannon in them. Even the ugly sisters had players I admired in Larsson and Laudrup in them, and hence, in the Scottish game. There is literally not one player in the entire Scottish game that i would pay money to see. Who's the best player in the SPFL anyway? Kris Commons probably? FFS. I mentioned elsewhere that recently I missed our last three home league games despite having an ST. Didn't miss it one little bit, the NFL games at Wembley are magnificent weekends, and with the build-up starting in Trafalgar Square on the Saturday, and for hours pre-game on the Sunday, by the time kick off comes, you are buzzing for it. Hair standing up on the back of your neck stuff with 86,000 people holding up the card displays during the anthems, and the show the NFL put on is magnificent. I'm not done with St Mirren, but Scottish football is giving me the dry boak. The reaction to the Rangers implosion, the antics of Doncaster, Regan and Ogilvie etc. It's a busted flush. Edited December 4, 2014 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM1 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) This feels like Falkirk's relegation doomed Eddie May season. At this stage of the 2009/2010 season, he was on 8 points and 2 goals better off than us. He lasted 'til February Edited December 4, 2014 by JM1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Lots of posts recently about Scottish football being crap, a shadow of its former self, a sponsorless backwater... etc. I'm not done with St Mirren, but Scottish football is giving me the dry boak. The reaction to the Rangers implosion, the antics of Doncaster, Regan and Ogilvie etc. It's a busted flush. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30317051 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30317051 Well said that man ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whydowebother Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Well said that man ! Basically what we all think I guess ? Doncaster & Regan running our game is not the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfcbuddie Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 While it was a missed opportunity, there were also many flaws to the bid. Plenty of people keep banging the fan ownership scheme drum but I've yet to see anyone, or a group of people, develop a proposal for ownership post 10000 hours. I thought HMFC pinched the idea and have made it work. Why not Saints and 10000 hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfcbuddie Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 10000 hours could't arrange feckin flowers! They disappeared without any communication several times, they could not bring one penny of the supposed grants/funding they assured all and sundry was in the bag, and they then had the affront to use fan ownership as way for GLS to flog his shares. Kibble wanted to asset strip our club taking control of our hospitality and corporate business. Missed Opportunity? The consortium saw it more as Bullet Dodged...! It would help if you explained how you know these claims as fact. In any event, despite around 1300 fans signing DD commitments, there is clearly so many fans who are against fan ownership that I despair. There are no well intentioned big investors out there, only guys who want to take from football. So if we are against fan ownership we might as well give up now. What exactly are you hoping for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I thought HMFC pinched the idea and have made it work. Why not Saints and 10000 hours? It's not the same model. They have Anne Budge, eventually she'll hand it over, but it's not the same as 10000 hours. So...you can bang the drum of fan ownership. But if you really believe it to be the right thing, what are you/people doing about it? I'm not picking on you bud, but talk is cheap on a fans forum. If people want action then they need to mobilise. Maybe it's just the way I feel towards football at the moment. The apathy around our club and scottish football is boring. I pick up a paper or listen to the radio and it's the same tedious scandal. I mean Raheem Sterling said he was tired and it was f**king back page news for three weeks. My only real enjoyment from this season has been following scotland, but that's largely driven by a large group of my mates getting back together and having a good time, seeing a half decent game and atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Ann Budge paid £2million to purchase the club.Their fans pay s fixed amount monthly into The Hearts Foundation.In around two years Ann will get get cash back and the club will be fan owned.I know a bit about this since my son in law who is a jambo pays monthly by Direct Debit.No reason whatsoever why we couldn't have a similar type scheme.Call it The Saints Foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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